Boot to Gecko/Rockbox customisation?

[alsaf]

Having had a bit of spare cash, I decided to upgrade to a low-end android phone. While I can't fault the developers for an impressive system, it suffers from the Achilles heel that affects fairly advanced mobile devices which is painfully low battery life (which isn't ideal when you depend on mobile phones for emergencies and dumb-phones have nearly 5 times the battery life).

While it is something that is bearable where I turn off most features to extend battery life and constantly recharge, I have been looking to see if there are alternatives and I came upon Boot to Gecko and it made me think if could be possible to use with Rockbox, which I have on an old DAP that I use occasionally.

To give a bit of an overview from what I understand of Boot to Gecko (B2G),  it is going to be an OS framework consisting of a stripped down Android kernel with a User Interface consisting of the Gecko engine used in Mozilla Firefox. On this framework  apps consisting of HTML5/JavaScript/CSS will be used, which I believe Android is going to move to with its App development model. Full details of this are on it's webpage:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G

While this project is in a very early stage, from my understandings of conversations about it, while it aims to be a 'truer' open-source environment than Android is, another one is to create a standard so that HTML can be used more easily as a User Interface framework.

Although it is being aimed as a mobile phone framework, it can also be customised to be used on tablets and I can't see why it can't be transferred to the desktop. It got me thinking, could it be customised to be used a DAP type firmware like Rockbox? The reasoning behind this is say that when B2G is in a workable state and could improve battery life, I could use a customised version of B2G/Rockbox (maybe in dual boot, if that is possible in mobile phone devices) so my mobile phone becomes a DAP. While I appreciate a Rockbox app is being developed for the Android, it still suffers the same as other apps that the underlying Android system uses battery draining services that can't be customised.

Again, I appreciate that B2G is in a very early stage, will take a very long time to get to a mature stage and of course is more efficient than Android, I would be grateful if anybody had any thoughts on this?

   

[saratoga]

Assuming that platform has apps, then yes you could in theory port rockbox as an application to it.

[alsaf]

Assuming that platform has apps, then yes you could in theory port rockbox as an application to it.

Thought I'd re-write the quick reply that I posted before I went to work this morning.

I am suggesting the possibility of a traditional Rockbox port to Android albeit with a HTML  rendering engine/JavaScript interpreter rather than as an app. Although I mentioned that the motivation should be extending the battery life and adding Gecko would needlessly consume battery power, it is required to foster an active app development community similar to Android and Iphone. As I previously mentioned, I believe Android is moving to HTML5 apps.

The stumbling block however is to either use a stripped down Android os or to modify Rockbox firmware for a mobile device. The question that needs to be considered is whether Linux is too demanding for low-end android phones in terms of power drain and whether all it's features will actually be used by the punter in the street. Another one is the effort it would take to port the low level stuff of Rockbox to  Android.

I haven't looked further into this and just looking for thoughts from the Rockbox community.

[Llorean]

Why would Android have an HTML rendering engine? Rockbox isn't about apps, or fostering an app community. It's about being a solid music player.

[saratoga]

I am suggesting the possibility of a traditional Rockbox port to Android albeit with a HTML  rendering engine/JavaScript interpreter rather than as an app.

Then no, thats not going to work.  Rockbox doesn't support or use HTML/javascript/networking/phone/etc.

Although I mentioned that the motivation should be extending the battery life and adding Gecko would needlessly consume battery power, it is required to foster an active app development community similar to Android and Iphone. As I previously mentioned, I believe Android is moving to HTML5 apps.

The stumbling block however is to either use a stripped down Android os or to modify Rockbox firmware for a mobile device. The question that needs to be considered is whether Linux is too demanding for low-end android phones in terms of power drain and whether all it's features will actually be used by the punter in the street. Another one is the effort it would take to port the low level stuff of Rockbox to  Android.

If you port rockbox to a phone as its firmware, then it basically becomes a simple music player like any other rockbox device.  I would not expect this to improve battery life beyond what you'd save by disabling all the phone radio, graphics hardware and other functions that wouldn't work in rockbox.  It seems to me if you want to make a phone into a portable music player to save power, you'd have a much easier time just hacking up your Android ROM to disable the phone and graphics hardware.

[alsaf]

Then no, thats not going to work.  Rockbox doesn't support or use HTML/javascript/networking/phone/etc.

I was thinking along the lines of the underlying code of Rockbox being used then building upon that functionality for networking/phone etc. From further reading of the B2G project, they are not interested in the low level stuff. As yourself and Llorean mentioned, that would not suit the Rockbox project.  

If you port rockbox to a phone as its firmware, then it basically becomes a simple music player like any other rockbox device.  I would not expect this to improve battery life beyond what you'd save by disabling all the phone radio, graphics hardware and other functions that wouldn't work in rockbox.  It seems to me if you want to make a phone into a portable music player to save power, you'd have a much easier time just hacking up your Android ROM to disable the phone and graphics hardware.

I've just found out how to Root my phone so that could be a possibility.

[saratoga]

Then no, thats not going to work.  Rockbox doesn't support or use HTML/javascript/networking/phone/etc.

I was thinking along the lines of the underlying code of Rockbox being used then building upon that functionality for networking/phone etc.

This really isn't a realistic option.  If you want a complicated operating system like Android, then stick to Android.  It has all the underlying features you'll need to implement things like networking, javascript and such.

I've just found out how to Root my phone so that could be a possibility.

I don't think you actually need to root your phone.  Just go into settings and disable all the radios, GPS, etc.  That'll get you 95% of the way there.

[alsaf]

This really isn't a realistic option.  If you want a complicated operating system like Android, then stick to Android.  It has all the underlying features you'll need to implement things like networking, javascript and such.

The point I was making is that a lot of features won't be used and is a drain on a low power device that the low-end Androids seem to be.

I don't think you actually need to root your phone.  Just go into settings and disable all the radios, GPS, etc.  That'll get you 95% of the way there.

Done that and while there is a noticeable extension to battery life, it is a lot less than conventional dumb-phone battery life. I read about this and it seems you are supposed to be charging smartphons all the time whether with a mains socket charger or via PC via using a USB connection. That is not really an option when you are out and about and want to say listen to music which the basis of my idea for a customised B2G/Rockbox. Thinking aloud here, while it would be a challenge to try and attempt it, would it be really worth the hassle as the hardware is not really designed for that?

_{Soap edit:  Broken quote fix.}

[saratoga]

Done that and while there is a noticeable extension to battery life, it is a lot less than conventional dumb-phone battery life.

Then you probably just have a crappy phone. 

That is not really an option when you are out and about and want to say listen to music which the basis of my idea for a customised B2G/Rockbox. Thinking aloud here, while it would be a challenge to try and attempt it, would it be really worth the hassle as the hardware is not really designed for that?

From what you've described, your idea isn't even possible.

[alsaf]

Then you probably just have a crappy phone. 

A matter of perception. A crappy phone or phone that is isn't designed to work properly with the software installed on it? While a phone is capable of running Android, it doesn't mean that is should be running Android. I noticed there is a replcement firmware called CyanogenMod which looks like it attempts to address the issues I raised.

From what you've described, your idea isn't even possible.

Maybe not with the part with Rockbox involved, but still hypothetically possible without it.

Anyway, I had started this post for thoughts about the idea. Thanks for taking the time to reply to this.

[saratoga]

Then you probably just have a crappy phone. 

A matter of perception. A crappy phone or phone that is isn't designed to work properly with the software installed on it?

Probably the former.  Power on a phone is being used to maintain radio links, keep the CPU at some minimum level of activity so that it can monitor the radio, etc.  Once you've turned off all the cell hardware, thats about as much energy as you can save.  Its not like installing different software is going to turn the hardware more off if its already off.

While a phone is capable of running Android, it doesn't mean that is should be running Android. I noticed there is a replcement firmware called CyanogenMod which looks like it attempts to address the issues I raised.

Cyanogenmod is Android 2.3.5. 

[alsaf]

Probably the former.  Power on a phone is being used to maintain radio links, keep the CPU at some minimum level of activity so that it can monitor the radio, etc.  Once you've turned off all the cell hardware, thats about as much energy as you can save.  Its not like installing different software is going to turn the hardware more off if its already off.

Probably. The phone is more than adequate for my needs and excels itself with games but is let down with reliability if away from a power source for a long time. 

Again, thanks for taking the time in answering my queries, much appreciated.