Volume limiter

[saratoga]

No it is not the same.   Please show me a menu on rockbox that says set volume limit?

Why do you need a menu item labelled the way you want it if there's a perfectly working way to achieve the same thing by using an option labelled differently? Should we also rename "backdrop" to "background" because other systems use the other term? Rename "plugins" to "apps" because the latter term became popular lately? Or ...

Why are you personally attacking me? 

Thats not a person attack and is entirely appropriate given your post.  However, your reply is extremely disrespectful, if not openly dishonest.   I already warned you via PM.  Be respectful to people or do not bother replying to them.

 Why not have a simple menu. 

I think we already do.  Unless you have something else specific in mind, I think we can consider this problem addressed. 

[Chronon]

I don't think most Rockbox users really care what it's called, but speaking for myself, I find that "precut" clearly describes the functionality.

[Datman]

I think he's asking for a compressor/limiter.
I don't need a limiter, for the medium sensitivity of my earphones and ba bit of gumption when I use other ones. Many people ask for a limiter defeating on some DAPs...
In addition the acoustic level is strongly dependent on the earphones sensitivity, that can be very different from each other.

In my Rockboxed Fuze I've found the compressor: its function is to raise the medium level reducing the crest factor. It has only two settings for the gain: off or auto.

Setting Ratio to oo (infinite, limiter) and a new "Ceiling" function to something lower than 0dB you can limit the volume to the desired value.

[saratoga]

I think he's asking for a compressor/limiter.

From his eventual description, I'm pretty sure he actually just wanted a way to lower the maximum volume level you could set, aka a precut option, which we do have.  But yes its hard to say since he didn't really seem to understand himself what he was asking for. 

Regardless, we have both precut and compression, so if the OP ever figures out what he wanted, hes welcome to use either!

[Strife89]

I'm inclined to agree that "Precut" does seem a tad confusing for the less-informed user. Perhaps changing it to something like "Maximum Volume" or "Volume Cap" might help?

[Llorean]

It's not just a volume cap. It lowers global volume by a certain amount. Mathematically it's the same as a cap, but because it's a cut, that happens in advance (hence pre-cut) it can also prevent clipping within certain DSP processes.

It basically serves multiple functions, and its name reflects what it explicitly does. It serves perfectly fine as a volume cap, because a 3db precut lowers the maximum volume by 3db.

It may be confusing if you don't read what settings do before assuming the one you want doesn't exist. And there may be some benefit for creating a "volume limiter" section of the manual that explains that the precut can be used for such, or similar, but renaming it will just confuse the issue from another direction when the problem is (as is so often the case) people search for a specific term they know, and if they don't find it, don't look at other things to see if something else serves that purpose. If we renamed it, people would turn to requesting a precut.

[Strife89]

It's not just a volume cap. [...] Mathematically it's the same as a cap, but because it's a cut, that happens in advance (hence pre-cut) it can also prevent clipping within certain DSP processes.

It basically serves multiple functions, and its name reflects what it explicitly does. [...] If we renamed it, people would turn to requesting a precut.

Ah, that explains a lot. I retract my suggestions, then.

[STU103]

I think he's asking for a compressor/limiter.

From his eventual description, I'm pretty sure he actually just wanted a way to lower the maximum volume level you could set, aka a precut option, which we do have.  But yes its hard to say since he didn't really seem to understand himself what he was asking for. 

Regardless, we have both precut and compression, so if the OP ever figures out what he wanted, hes welcome to use either!

I am not an expert on rock box, nor do I pretend to be.   I understood what I was asking.   People have suggested that I haven't read the manual.  Well I have.  There is no mention of a way to limit the maximum output volume contained in the manual.  Now in relation to pre cut  and I will quote
"Pre-cut. If too much gain is added through the graphical EQ, your music may distort.
The Precut setting allows you to adjust the overall gain of the EQ.
If your music distorts when using the EQ, trying changing this setting to a negative
value."

As for volume and I quote
 "6.1. Volume
This setting adjusts the volume of your music. Like most professional audio gear and
many consumer audio products, Rockbox uses a decibel scale where 0 dB is a refer-
ence that indicates the maximum volume that the player can produce without possible
distortion (clipping). All values lower than this reference will be negative and yield a
progressively softer volume. Values higher than 0 dB are available and can be used to
raise the volume more than would otherwise be possible. These volume levels will ordi-
narily lead to distorted sound, but might work nicely for music that has an otherwise low
volume level.  The volume can be adjusted from a minimum of -74 dB to a maximum
of +6 dB.

This is all that is mentioned about pre cut and volume in the manual. 
Yes, perhaps the pre cut could function to limit the overall audio out put of the mechanical volume control,   but there is certainly no mention of that. 

Perhaps some amendments or updates should be made to the user manual.    I would think that a fair amount people use an ipod with rock box.  Someone who has used an ipod with original firmware would be aware of its ability to simply limit the volume that is being outputted when the mechanical volume control is used.  This is a useful feature.   It would be useful to include instructions in the manual how to achieve this in rock box.

Here is what I am talking about on an Ipod http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38403?viewlocale=en_US.

This visualisation may help people to understand what I am describing.

[gbl08ma]

The volume limiter as those that are implemented by Apple in its firmware has been refused many times if I recall correctly. It's not something people want AFAIK.

Personally, I (and many other people) want to be able to turn the volume to the maximum without having to change some setting first. Higher volume level on both the 3.5mm jack and on the line-out, without volume limiter, were some of the reasons I switched to Rockbox.

[Llorean]

As has been stated, it hasn't been rejected so much as it already exists as a feature. People just, perhaps, don't know what 'gain' means in an audio context.

The issue isn't a lacking feature, but a situation where documentation can be improved. Since it's open source, we welcome a patch for the manual from anyone who feels strongly about the issue to improve describing what precut is, and how it may be used for other purposes.

[Strife89]

Here's a start. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12203

[AlexP]

This already been discussed in the feature request section.  Please search before posting.

In addition, if you want help, then don't be so rude.  Starting a request for help with:

Yes before any Moderator on other stuck up know it all Techy Guy on this site start to say... 

is not conducive to help.  Calm down, stay civil, and then listen to people when they tell you we already have the feature that you seem to be describing.

[soap]

It's not just a volume cap. [...] Mathematically it's the same as a cap, but because it's a cut, that happens in advance (hence pre-cut) it can also prevent clipping within certain DSP processes.

It basically serves multiple functions, and its name reflects what it explicitly does. [...] If we renamed it, people would turn to requesting a precut.

Ah, that explains a lot. I retract my suggestions, then.

What I believe would serve as an apt "replacement" for your original proposal (renaming of "precut" to "max volume" or whatever) would be a Tutorial section in the manual for those not technically inclined.  A Frequently Unspoken Questions section. 

How do I limit the maximum volume? 
How do I maximize battery life?
How do I do BLANK like in my original firmware?

Those sorts of questions which (even if we had an index) people who didn't understand the problem would have a hard time knowing what to look for.  As saratoga so aptly mentioned, a precut acts perfectly as a volume cap and other functions.  Listing the same function twice or thrice in the menus would take Rockbox ever further from the "simple" menus STU103 is crying out for. 

Apple OS is simple in the consumer definition of  the word - limited options. 
Rockbox is simple in the beautiful engineering definition of the word - maximum utility accomplished with a minimal repetition of functionality through a careful selection of tools.   This is what is so frustrating about STU103's (and others') unqualified calls for "simple menus" and the developer's inevitable response "they ARE simple"  You keep using that word [simple].  I do not think it means what you think it means. 

[Buschel]

"How do I maximize battery life?" is already covered in the manual, see "Optimising battery runtime". Maybe this can be re-organized to be part of an extra "FAQ"-section.

[soap]

ahh ye got me there Buschel.  

I wasn't trying to say those were new topics which needed covered so much as the sort of conversation-style problem-solving such a section might be good for.