Pre-gain for non-replaygain tracks.

[nwimpney]

This subject has been mentioned before in other threads, but I think it deserves its own.

It would be good to have an option that sets a pre-amp value for tracks that don't have replay gain tags.

This way, when you play a track that isn't tagged, it will be reduced to a volume similar to the reference level (obviously only a guess, depending what you have it set to) instead of playing it at full volume.

Currently, the suggested behaviour is to set a pre-gain to compensate for your estimated average replaygain values, but that seems pretty backwards.

-Nick

[saratoga]

IIRC we decided at some point years ago that we wanted this, and have just been waiting for someone to add it.

[Llorean]

Isn't this the Equalizer Pre-Amp? His stated purpose was to decrease, and that's already possibly in Rockbox independently of the presence of replaygain tags.

Edit: I may have misunderstood - do you mean for non-replaygained track within a mixed collection? It seems like you shouldn't apply replaygain settings to non-replaygain tracks, but again you could use pre-amp from the equalizer to increase the volume of your tracks in general, and pre-cut in replaygain itself to adjust only those tracks with tags allowing you to adjustthe wo types of tracks separately.

[saratoga]

I may have misunderstood - do you mean for non-replaygained track within a mixed collection? It seems like you shouldn't apply replaygain settings to non-replaygain tracks, but again you could use pre-amp from the equalizer to increase the volume of your tracks in general, and pre-cut in replaygain itself to adjust only those tracks with tags allowing you to adjustthe wo types of tracks separately.

Basically, right now we have a precut for replaygain tracks, and a global one in the EQ, but no way to apply a separate one to tracks that are missing replaygain info.   

[Llorean]

Isn't applying one to all tracks with Replaygain info the opposite amount and then globally compensating mathematically exactly the same?

Subtract 6 from non scanned tracks is the same as adding six to scanned ones and subtracting six globally. Why do we need even more settings?

Why would you prefer to adjust nonscanned tracks only rather than scanned track only? You could raise scanned by 6 or lower nonscanned by six and either way you get the same difference, then just adjust the global level or even just the volume.

[saratoga]

Isn't applying one to all tracks with Replaygain info the opposite amount and then globally compensating mathematically exactly the same?

You might be able to work around this by applying an EQ precut of X dB and then raising the replaygain reference level by X dB.  That should prevent replaygain from making tracks quieter.  However I'm not 100% certain of the order in which the gain is applied, so I'm not sure if it'd work without distortion.

Regardless, most replaygain implementations do offer a precut for non-RG tracks, so we should probably do so as well.  If the EQ precut is done first, then it could simply adjust that. 

[Multiplex]

It would be good to have an option that sets a pre-amp value for tracks that don't have replay gain tags.

I just adjusted the replay gain pre-amp so that replay gain tagged files sounded about the same level as un-tagged files. What's wrong with doing that?

[saratoga]

It would be good to have an option that sets a pre-amp value for tracks that don't have replay gain tags.

I just adjusted the replay gain pre-amp so that replay gain tagged files sounded about the same level as un-tagged files. What's wrong with doing that?

More clipping, although maybe not enough to really be annoying. 

[Llorean]

If pre-amp and pre-cut are applied simultaneously (or just, well, well) that should allow you to prevent any additional clipping, right?

[Multiplex]

More clipping, although maybe not enough to really be annoying. 

Erm.. actually I apply negative gain - a cut. I also have Prevent clipping enabled - it works a treat for me but my hearing certainly isn't what it used to be...

Sorry if I sound argumentative - I just want to be sure I'm not doing something stupid :-)

[saratoga]

More clipping, although maybe not enough to really be annoying. 

Erm.. actually I apply negative gain - a cut.

Doesn't matter, you can still get clipping with lossy files even if you apply a negative gain.  Thats why the replaygain reference levels are so low, you need to cut off quite a few db to be sure theres no clipping due to rounding errors and quantization artifacts.  Basically, if you raise the replygain reference level, you'll get more clipping, although IME its usually not noticeable. 

I also have Prevent clipping enabled - it works a treat for me but my hearing certainly isn't what it used to be...

Then you won't get clipping, but your tracks won't also play at exactly the same volume, since each will be randomly lowered a few dB. 

Sorry if I sound argumentative - I just want to be sure I'm not doing something stupid :-)

No nothing stupid, just something audio purists seem to care about.  If you don't notice a problem, don't worry about it.