Fuze V1 USB support broken under Rockbox 3.7 / 3.7.1

[Roj]

The way I see it, we have two options:

• Run the forums the best we can, taking into account that all of this is volunteer work done by people who may also try to have a life
• Shut down the forums

I think the second option would meet all of your requirements. Is that what we should do then?

Not at all.

And bear in mind, options were asked for and I gave them based on my professional opinion (freely, I might add - no charge and generally I do charge).

However I am seeing a lot of motherhood and "i'm really offended by any criticism of my work so byte me" rather than acceptance that there is something that could be improved and evaluating / exploring ways to resolve or alleviate the issues.  That's not at all surprising given the prima donna mindset of most techies (been one for twenty years - know the mindset intimately) and sadly in the real world it makes the difference between clients (yes, your users are indeed clients, again whether you choose to acknowledge that or not) staying with your product (we've covered that) or putting you out of business by going with someone else who is more client oriented.

And yes I know, since you're not in business so that naturally doesn't matter now, does it....

Sure, Jim.

Be that as it may and rhetoric aside, that will not change the hard fact that the method needs revision and refinement and given your attitude, that will likely remain a constant.  If the devs who built Rockbox had that attitude, we wouldn't have adjustable themes and audible aids but would still be living with spidery fonts on a text white background.  IMO the least you could do is try and match their dedicated efforts.

Again, YMMV.

[gevaerts]

And bear in mind, options were asked for and I gave them based on my professional opinion (freely, I might add - no charge and generally I do charge).

Oh, wonderful! We're not being charged for being told that we need our head examined. Oh joy!

However I am seeing a lot of motherhood and "i'm really offended by any criticism of my work so byte me" rather than acceptance that there is something that could be improved and evaluating / exploring ways to resolve or alleviate the issues.  That's not at all surprising given the prima donna mindset of most techies (been one for twenty years - know the mindset intimately) and sadly in the real world it makes the difference between clients (yes, your users are indeed clients, again whether you choose to acknowledge that or not) staying with your product (we've covered that) or putting you out of business by going with someone else who is more client oriented.

And yes I know, since you're not in business so that naturally doesn't matter now, does it....

Sure, Jim.

Be that as it may and rhetoric aside, that will not change the hard fact that the method needs revision and refinement and given your attitude, that will likely remain a constant.  If the devs who built Rockbox had that attitude, we wouldn't have adjustable themes and audible aids but would still be living with spidery fonts on a text white background.  IMO the least you could do is try and match their dedicated efforts.

Again, YMMV.

Re-read your first post in this thread. Are we really talking about "any criticism" here? Is it really that clear-cut who has attitude issues?

Yes, there are things that can be improved. Pointing this out by saying things like "Whoever implemented that abortion needs their head examined" may be acceptable if you pay people for a service, saying that to volunteers is just insulting.

[Roj]

And bear in mind, options were asked for and I gave them based on my professional opinion (freely, I might add - no charge and generally I do charge).

Oh, wonderful! We're not being charged for being told that we need our head examined. Oh joy!

However I am seeing a lot of motherhood and "i'm really offended by any criticism of my work so byte me" rather than acceptance that there is something that could be improved and evaluating / exploring ways to resolve or alleviate the issues.  That's not at all surprising given the prima donna mindset of most techies (been one for twenty years - know the mindset intimately) and sadly in the real world it makes the difference between clients (yes, your users are indeed clients, again whether you choose to acknowledge that or not) staying with your product (we've covered that) or putting you out of business by going with someone else who is more client oriented.

And yes I know, since you're not in business so that naturally doesn't matter now, does it....

Sure, Jim.

Be that as it may and rhetoric aside, that will not change the hard fact that the method needs revision and refinement and given your attitude, that will likely remain a constant.  If the devs who built Rockbox had that attitude, we wouldn't have adjustable themes and audible aids but would still be living with spidery fonts on a text white background.  IMO the least you could do is try and match their dedicated efforts.

Again, YMMV.

Re-read your first post in this thread. Are we really talking about "any criticism" here? Is it really that clear-cut who has attitude issues?

Yes, there are things that can be improved. Pointing this out by saying things like "Whoever implemented that abortion needs their head examined" may be acceptable if you pay people for a service, saying that to volunteers is just insulting.

You have a point.  Let's just say that my delivery definitely lacked tact.  Chalk it up to the whole techie prima donna thing.  My apologies - I guess I've seen too many instances where the most basic accessibility considerations are ignored (in corporate they dare not be - that could cost you money).  This method employed here is used across a wide variety of sites and IMNSHO, the creators should be taken out and shot - and yeah, I know that's not tactful either.  In my experience, a system that attempts to achieve accessibility and does it poorly is often far worse than one which ignores it completely because it's harder to extricate and replace with one that actually does the job properly (hmmmm?).

You know, it's a funny thing.,  I was perfectly sighted until four years ago and didn't see (pun intended) the other side.  Now it's crystal clear to me.

[AlexP]

You really really really need to examine your attitude.  We give up huge amounts of time for nothing for this.

Learn how people work.  Come along and say, "Thanks for all the efforts, but as someone with visual problems the registration is very hard, is there anything that can be done to improve it" makes me want to help.  Come along and say, "Whoever implemented that abortion needs their head examined"  makes me want to say, "what a prick, sod off".  Can you not see that?  Then further insulting us in your replies, when people have been nothing but reasonable... "You're a prima donna technie with attitude problems.  Now please help me". Yeah, right.

Oh, and thanks very much for not charging us for insulting us, much appreciated.  Incidentally, I tried to write a reasonable response earlier, which you have completely ignored.

Also, we are the very same people who built and wrote Rockbox...

Now, as I have already explained, we use a third party service for this.  We do not have the time or resources to implement our own.  Perhaps you could do some research into a better alternative?

[Roj]

You really really really need to examine your attitude.  We give up huge amounts of time for nothing for this.

Learn how people work.  Come along and say, "Thanks for all the efforts, but as someone with visual problems the registration is very hard, is there anything that can be done to improve it" makes me want to help.  Come along and say, "Whoever implemented that abortion needs their head examined"  makes me want to say, "what a prick, sod off".  Can you not see that?  Then further insulting us in your replies, when people have been nothing but reasonable... "You're a prima donna technie with attitude problems.  Now please help me". Yeah, right.

Oh, and thanks very much for not charging us for insulting us, much appreciated.  Incidentally, I tried to write a reasonable response earlier, which you have completely ignored.

Also, we are the very same people who built and wrote Rockbox...

That's great - so apply your principles across the board.  Not too hard to ask.  You did a great job with Rockbox and I gave you the praise you deserved for it.  You did a much lesser job on the registration aspect of the site (the rest of the site is fine) and I gave it the comments it deserved.  Are you saying that just because you spent time and effort on something that it's automatically perfect?  You're not the first to have poured a lot of effort into something and have it not deliver what was intended.  The trick is to take the criticism (however delivered - and I admit I could have been more tactful) and go back to make it better.  Just because you designed a terrific player OS doesn't mean that you know everything there is to know about accessibility and integrating it into web design.  Learning form someone who uses your product and has issues with it is a huge asset from where I'm sitting (and my job in IT Security depends on that).  I sure as heck don't know a damned thing about coding a player OS and I don't pretend to.

At the end of the day you have two choices: leave the poor registration process in place and piss off more people or fix it.  it's that simple.  If you don't think it's worth it then that's your choice.  Choosing that option won't make it magically better although you will gain a measure of satisfaction, however hollow, of having told off "that upstart user who doesn't appreciate all my hard work" and talks out of his rear end.  Did I mention "hollow"?  The problem will still exist. and somewhere along the line you'll likely hear about it again from someone else who isn't willing to just let it slide.  And once again you'll tell off the upstart user and congratulate yourself on having "put them in their place".

Someone back at the beginning of this thread asked me "ydo you want help or not".  I responded with a detailed description of the issue and how to replicate it.  Then I was asked for what nedded to be fixed.  I responded with what was wrong and suggestions of how to fix it.

Now it's my turn.

Do you want to make accessibility of your site better for visually impaired users or not?

I've ponied up - twice.

It's your move.

In any event, this thread is WAY off-topic.  What started out as a secondary point has become the main topic of discussion in it.  I've made my points and won't be discussing accessibility or opinions of my actions any further.  I leave it to your actions to indicate your attitude on that topic.

Back to USB file transfer issues with the Fuze V1 under Windows.
Post Merge: December 11, 2010, 10:59:29 AM

You really really really need to examine your attitude.  We give up huge amounts of time for nothing for this.

Learn how people work.  Come along and say, "Thanks for all the efforts, but as someone with visual problems the registration is very hard, is there anything that can be done to improve it" makes me want to help.  Come along and say, "Whoever implemented that abortion needs their head examined"  makes me want to say, "what a prick, sod off".  Can you not see that?  Then further insulting us in your replies, when people have been nothing but reasonable... "You're a prima donna technie with attitude problems.  Now please help me". Yeah, right.

Oh, and thanks very much for not charging us for insulting us, much appreciated.  Incidentally, I tried to write a reasonable response earlier, which you have completely ignored.

Also, we are the very same people who built and wrote Rockbox...

Now, as I have already explained, we use a third party service for this.  We do not have the time or resources to implement our own.  Perhaps you could do some research into a better alternative?

You know something?  I will.  Let me get back to my crew at the office next week and I'll see if I can dig up something that's free or extremely low cost from our web devs.  Cool suggestion and I'll run with it if I can.

[AlexP]

No, you didn't give it the comments you deserved.  You gave it a load of insults.  Constructive criticism is very different to just spewing out insults.  Part of being a volunteer is not having to take that.  Since you keep talking about your job and how much experience you have, if that is how you deliver your "criticisms" at work, I am very surprised you still have a job/customers.

You also responded with detailed suggestions on how to fix recaptcha.  This is nothing to do with us.  Either work with them to fix it, or suggest to us an alternative service.

The major problem here is your arrogant, insulting attitude, not what you are actually saying (nobody at any point has said the captcha system is perfect).

Now if you can find an acceptable solution, then we will gratefully apply it and thank you very much.

[soap]

OK, create a new thread regarding forum registration issues.

In 24 hours I'm going to clean all such discussion out of this thread, as it's too intertwined to split out easily.

Any future posts containing talk re:registration issues will be shit-canned w/o PM.

And let's all try to back off the finger pointing and "you you you you" statements. 

[Roj]

OK, create a new thread regarding forum registration issues.

In 24 hours I'm going to clean all such discussion out of this thread, as it's too intertwined to split out easily.

Any future posts containing talk re:registration issues will be shit-canned w/o PM.

And let's all try to back off the finger pointing and "you you you you" statements. 

I'm good.