iriver H320 + 32GB CF-Card + 2200mAh Battery - some problems

[polluxx2006]

hello,

i have an iriver h320. when i bought it, i had to change the battery because the old one was almost dead. so i bought a certified 2200mAh Cameron Sino batt. it worked. then i had to change the hold switch (the knob on the outside). done. strangely, after that i noticed that the display was slightly flickering while disk access... plus, i discovered a low rumbling noise, e.g. when i changed volume or when the player was loading data into the buffer while playing music... i also heard it when i was recording and data was written to disk. and i always thought the battery doesnt last as long as expected. after a few months not unsing the player, i tried to switch it on but it didnt work. i sent it to the iriver service to get it all repaired. THEY said, the battery is defective and wanted to have 50€ for repair. i decided to change the batt by myself. plus, i replaced the 20GB HD with a 32GB cf card. the noise was gone, but anway, the display is still flikcering a bit and i heard that rumbling noise again yesterday when i was listening to the radio and changed volume or browsed the menus/files...

one more strange thing: the WPS wont update (shows song 1, although song 2 is playing) sometimes.. sometimes it does, sometimes not... strange, isnt it!? i have to click "nav" (go to file browser) and then play again to go to the wps to update it.

does anybody hav an idea what might be wrong with the player.
or can someone check his own player about the rumbling noises?

thanks
oliver

[soap]

Did you buy both the first "certified" 2200mAh battery, and whatever you replaced it with from the same source?

I hope you did because I'd sure like to blame the problem on a shady battery salesman (there are SO many counterfit CS batteries out there...) but I'm suspicious you have a power-related issue somewhere not so easy to replace...

[polluxx2006]

bought the first battery from licketysplitauctions on ebay...

edit: may there be a possibility to send the player to someone from this
forum who can take a look at it?

[polluxx2006]

can anybody with a h320 please chek if theres noise from adjusting volume in radio mode?

[dreamlayers]

What headphones are you using?  Highly efficient headphones will make electrical noise from the player more audible.  The difference can be huge; a device may seem to have no noise with some headphones and far too much noise with others.

(I use Creative Labs EP-630 headphones.  They're good headphones, but many devices including my 5G iPod and Archos v2 recorder have too much electrical noise.  Because of that, I put an in-line volume control between the device and headphones.)

If your h320 is actually defective, my guess is that a power supply isn't regulating voltage properly.  That could be because the battery has excessive internal resistance or because of a defect in the circuit.

[polluxx2006]

im usinsg a koss porta pro.

[littlenick]

O.K. -  What I report now happens on a iriver h120, with rockbox 3.5.1
Also changed the battery (maybe 6 months ago), put in a 2200 mAh.  This one had been sitting in new condition for two or three years on the shelf at home before I put it into the player (does shelf-life of a new battery affect life-cycles afterwards - if so, strongly?).
After charging maybe 4 to 5 times the maximum voltage doesn't go anymore up to 4.19 V but merely to 4.04 or so (progressively decreasing).
Now I made a test:
I should get with this battery capacitiy well over 15 hours of playback with original firmware, but after approximately 11 hours automatic shutdown occurs. Restarting after OF shutdown with rockbox shows a current voltage of ca. 3.6 V - but now look at this:
I got another 4 hours of playback with rockbox until final automatic shutdown occured due to low battery! Restarting right after that with rockbox displays a battery voltage of 3.04 Volts! (And the repeated clicking sound on shutdown suggests the hdd got some difficulties to reach the parking position).
Well - how does that power drain affect lifetime of my battery?

[soap]

littlenick, are you pollux or are you hijacking his thread?  I only ask because it is a strong coincidence that the two ip addresses are so geographically close for similar issues on an uncommon player.

O.K. -  What I report now happens on a iriver h120, with rockbox 3.5.1
Also changed the battery (maybe 6 months ago), put in a 2200 mAh.  This one had been sitting in new condition for two or three years on the shelf at home before I put it into the player (does shelf-life of a new battery affect life-cycles afterwards - if so, strongly?).

Yes, lithium chemistry batteries lose capacity, even when in unused storage.  The amount of capacity they lose is related to their storage voltage.  If it self-discharged sufficiently low it could die on the shelf within a few years.

After charging maybe 4 to 5 times the maximum voltage doesn't go anymore up to 4.19 V but merely to 4.04 or so (progressively decreasing).

This is a very bad sign pointing to a dying battery.

Now I made a test:
I should get with this battery capacity well over 15 hours of playback with original firmware, but after approximately 11 hours automatic shutdown occurs. Restarting after OF shutdown with rockbox shows a current voltage of ca. 3.6 V - but now look at this:
I got another 4 hours of playback with rockbox until final automatic shutdown occurred due to low battery!

All this implies is that Rockbox has a lower threshold voltage.

Restarting right after that with rockbox displays a battery voltage of 3.04 Volts! (And the repeated clicking sound on shutdown suggests the hdd got some difficulties to reach the parking position).
Well - how does that power drain affect lifetime of my battery?

Not sure the exact question - but bypassing the low-battery-shutdown-protection routine by repeatedly rebooting is a great way to over-discharge a lithium chemistry battery.

[littlenick]

First: I'm not pollux nor was it my intention to hijack his thread - my observations might have to do with pollux's problems - so why start a separate thread?

Second: @pollux - Since we seem to own so outrageously uncommon players and seem to live so near (and I intend to do the CF mod someday), would you be interested to drop me a private note - so we could work on some issues together?

Third: @ soap
Quote from: soap on September 20, 2010, 06:38:22 PM
"Not sure the exact question - but bypassing the low-battery-shutdown-protection routine by repeatedly rebooting is a great way to over-discharge a lithium chemistry battery."
I wanted to see what the threshold value for rockbox's shutdown was and couldn't think of any other way but starting rockbox.
The result suggests that the threshold value of rockbox isn't very battery-safe (a possible relation to my fast deteriorating battery) and that it is safer to operate with original firmware.

[soap]

The result suggests that the threshold value of rockbox isn't very battery-safe (a possible relation to my fast deteriorating battery) and that it is safer to operate with original firmware.

I don't see how you draw that conclusion.  Also, the battery voltage you saw on your third boot is likely false, as the (relatively) high draw of the HDD during boot temporarely pulled the voltage low.

[littlenick]

My conclusion is drawn from the following observations:
1) When iriver original firmware shuts down the player due to low battery, rockbox gives me another 4 hours of playback.
2) Right after iriver's original firmware shutdown there is enough juice left that even the high draw of the HDD during reboot leaves the voltage somewhere in the 3.6 V -area.
3) The funny clicking sound on shutdown after restart would never occur immediately after iriver's original firmware shutdown, i.e. the safety margin in iriver's threshold seems to be ample.

[soap]

My conclusion is drawn from the following observations:

While I (obviously) can't disagree with your observations, I find your conclusions are not supported by them:

1) When iriver original firmware shuts down the player due to low battery, rockbox gives me another 4 hours of playback.

This in and of itself is as likely a commentary on iRiver as it is Rockbox.

2) Right after iriver's original firmware shutdown there is enough juice left that even the high draw of the HDD during reboot leaves the voltage somewhere in the 3.6 V -area.

Considering 2.7-3.0 volts is safe discharge level, I think point #2 tips your first point towards iRiver being overly conservative.

3) The funny clicking sound on shutdown after restart would never occur immediately after iriver's original firmware shutdown, i.e. the safety margin in iriver's threshold seems to be ample.

I don't see the connection, much less the conclusion, especially given #2.

[dreamlayers]

There are two separate requirements here:

• 1) A need to protect the battery from overdischarge.
• 2) A need to shut down while the device is still able to operate.

Multiple sources say that 3.0 V is a safe shutdown voltage with lithium polymer batteries.  If after restarting after a low battery shutdown, the battery voltage is 3.04V, then Rockbox clearly satisfies the first requirement.

The clicking on shutdown makes me wonder about the second requirement however.  Maybe iRiver decided to shut down the device at a higher voltage because the device cannot operate reliably at lower voltages?  There's another issue however:  as a battery ages, its internal resistance increases, and this causes voltage to dip more during load spikes such as hard disk activity.

[littlenick]

I vaguely remember reading (but don't remember where) that the hdd needs 3.2 Volts to operate.
Well - you developers surely checked the requirements of the toshiba hdd before programming the threshold.
Still a battery that gives me over 10 hours of playback with original firmware does not seem completely shot to me.

[dreamlayers]

Is the hard drive powered by a switching power supply which is capable of boosting voltage?