X5-30gb -- no audio on Line Out jack

[hollowman]

Consistency on this part is clearly a hardware issue

Based on the symptoms I described, I pretty much disagree with you.
It's more likely a firmware issue...codewise, likely at a low level (e.g., "assembly", HEX, or bit level). Are you/anyone aware of a way (utility) of checking bit settings for Line Out? Perhaps via RB's Debug: View I/O mode?

[soap]

You reinstalled the iAudio firmware, no?
One of its jobs is to setup all the hardware.  "Set the bits".
If you ran with it as you reported and had the same issue you can rest assured that the cause is not firmware setting some register wrong.

Otherwise you are implying an identical bug in both firmwares.

Not to mention nothing that low-level on that target has been touched in the Rockbox source for ages.  If there was somehow an issue (which the evidence strongly supports the statement that there is not) it would have been seen before now.

EDIT:
If you feel the evidence does not support this, please lay out an explicit argument - I believe the case is cut and dry, though, but would like to see your reasoning.

[hollowman]

If you feel the evidence does not support this, please lay out an explicit argument - I believe the case is cut and dry, though, but would like to see your reasoning.

As I've nted since the OP, I noticed the Line Out issue only after first install of RB. Perhaps static electricity discharged during this. RB Install Util. informs one of turning off unit so new firmware can install. The system  may be vulnerable during this time.

[Llorean]

Seriously, nobody else has this problem with current builds of Rockbox. You can't reproduce the problem on your other player. Putting the other player's build on this player, so that the hardware is initialized the same way, does not resolve the problem.

You've more or less explicitly ruled it out from being a firmware problem by trying a different, known good, firmware already.

If a random static discharge fried your player, that's obviously a hardware problem as well.

[hollowman]

If a random static discharge fried your player, that's obviously a hardware problem as well.

Try this: in your X5 or any HD-based PMP, turn your vol. up to as high as you can comfortably take it. Listen while you power up/down, switch tracks. You should be able to hear digital garbage "whistling" noises, in both channels. That's what I still hear from both Line Out and 'Phones, in this PMP and others; therefore,  I don't think the hardware was/is damaged as you seem to suggext.

[Llorean]

You've said this a few times. I've taken this into account.

Now consider - the DAC could be damaged and not driving the line out possibly, but electrical interference can still be heard through it.

There are possibilities other than the one that you seem to focus on. And remember, you yourself verified that it wasn't the firmware by switching out firmwares.

[hollowman]

Now consider - the DAC could be damaged and not driving the line out possibly, but electrical interference can still be heard through it.

Rubbish! Go back and carefully re-read thru this thread. Phones out produces HQ sound.

There are possibilities other than the one that you seem to focus on. And remember, you yourself verified that it wasn't the firmware by switching out firmwares.

I agree and I think I've already said it. I fault the X5 or other acts of Nature (incl. something I may have inadvertingly done).
That said, and WADR, several of you responders seem to be going out of the way to protect RB rather than truly problem-solve this issue. Let's try to think ... ahem ... out of the Box!

[Llorean]

Now consider - the DAC could be damaged and not driving the line out possibly, but electrical interference can still be heard through it.

Rubbish! Go back and carefully re-read thru this thread. Phones out produces HQ sound.

And the fact that headphones out works proves what exactly in your mind? I was aware of this too, which is why I specifically said line out.

That said, and WADR, several of you responders seem to be going out of the way to protect RB rather than truly problem-solve this issue. Let's try to think ... ahem ... out of the Box!

No, we're trying to convince you it's not likely to be a firmware issue since as of 12 hours ago you were still harping on about it being a firmware issue, so that you can go about trying to investigate the real cause, and as of two posts ago you were claiming that it *wasn't* hardware.

We can't help you "solve" a problem until it's identified. And you keep coming back around to trying to claim it's a firmware issue even though you've ruled it out.

If it's a hardware issue, you need to fix or replace the hardware that's damaged. If you still think it's a firmware issue, provide some evidence (such as a firmware version that works alongside a firmware version that doesn't while using the same hardware, not two different players of the same type).

[hollowman]

And you keep coming back around to trying to claim it's a firmware issue even though you've ruled it out.

But what exactly is firmware -- surely, low-level stuff is stuff that RB does not normally touch, but may have been accidentally affected during the orig. FW flash.

If it's a hardware issue, you need to fix or replace the hardware that's damaged. If you still think it's a firmware issue, provide some evidence (such as a firmware version that works alongside a firmware version that doesn't while using the same hardware, not two different players of the same type).

Define "hardware issue", please. IMO, that's a pretty generic def. that'll get one out of an unexamining courtroom. But since you brought it up...
I've been, since the beg., going through the HW datasheets on this page...
http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IaudioX5HardwareComponents
...notably the TI DAC. It's working normally AFAICS, but I don't know what may be causing it mute LO ... or something else between the TI chip and the LO jack (I assume there is nothing, like a buffer or switch).

[soap]

Let's assume there is low-level stuff Rockbox doesn't touch, and it is here the problem lies.
A - Why are we talking about it on the Rockbox forum?
B - Why didn't reinstalling the Cowon firmware fix it?


I don't know why you linked to the datasheet or what that proves.  The line-out and headphone-out are separate circuits on the TI DAC (as shown in the datasheet). 

You keep using the word "mute" with no supporting evidence.  I'm not trying to nit-pick words, but I believe that poor word choice can lead to poor logic and poor conclusions.

The fact you are able to pick up electrical interference when plugged into the line-out in no way signifies a working, yet muted, line-out circuit.  It could be a symptom of that, but it could also be a symptom of a non-working line-out.

My beef is it appears to me a conclusion was reached and the some of the evidence is being held up in support of that conclusion, while ignoring the other (and I feel overwhelming) evidence to the contrary.

Fact:  You installed Rockbox.
Fact:  Line Out does not work now (I assume the line out was proved working immediately prior to the install.)  At best this is correlation.
Fact:  You can hear what sounds like electrical interference on the line out now.

Theory:  Rockbox broke line-out
Evidence For: Correlation.
Evidence against:  Reinstall of Cowon firmware does not restore line out.
Evidence against:  Nobody else amongst the hundreds if not thousands of people with the same hardware has reported the problem.
Evidence against:  Rockbox audio code for the iAudio players has not changed in 10 months IIRC.
Evidence against:  The really low-level setup is done by the Cowon bootloader IIUC, which we use to launch our bootloader.

Now consider - the DAC could be damaged and not driving the line out possibly, but electrical interference can still be heard through it.

Rubbish! Go back and carefully re-read thru this thread. Phones out produces HQ sound.

As I say, this proves nothing.  Separate circuits.

EDIT:  Not as separate as I thought.  See page 9 of the datasheet.  I see no way to mute the line-out inside the DAC itself without muting the headphone out

I agree and I think I've already said it. I fault the X5 or other acts of Nature (incl. something I may have inadvertingly done).
That said, and WADR, several of you responders seem to be going out of the way to protect RB rather than truly problem-solve this issue. Let's try to think ... ahem ... out of the Box!

I resent what I see as a misportrayal of the situation. 
My challenging assumptions of yours is hardly defensive behavior on my part. 

If you want problem solving - let's start with sound reasoning.

[hollowman]

If you want problem solving - let's start with sound reasoning.

Study the block diag in the TI DAC's datasheet. Look at where the Line Out ckt is compared to HP Out and HP's vol cntrl. Then, realize (as noted elsewhere in this thread) that RB does disable LO when vol is minimized ("0"). I need to check the status of this bit. Can you tell me how to access it in RB or via any other utility?
BTW: do you know of a source for X5 schematics? I cannot obtain them as I usually can with other hifi gear I own.
BTW: Yes, I am absolutely certain that, at the most 15 min prior to 1st install of RB, LO worked. Correlation? ...technically yes, but -- as much as I like RB -- I can't give it the full benefit of doubt here. Maybe something in this X5 was getting ready to "go" anyway, and RB was merely the last straw. Maybe!

[saratoga]

I need to check the status of this bit. Can you tell me how to access it in RB or via any other utility?

Easiest way would be to write a plugin that printed.  However, since the value of registers is reset whenever the power is disconnected, the value you read in rockbox may or may not be the same value as in the OF.  Getting the value in the OF would be very, very hard.

BTW: do you know of a source for X5 schematics? I cannot obtain them as I usually can with other hifi gear I own.

I don't know any MP3 players with schematics.  These aren't typically published. 

BTW: Yes, I am absolutely certain that, at the most 15 min prior to 1st install of RB, LO worked. Correlation? ...technically yes, but -- as much as I like RB -- I can't give it the full benefit of doubt here. Maybe something in this X5 was getting ready to "go" anyway, and RB was merely the last straw. Maybe!

If it happens in the OF then its obviously a hardware issue.  Rockbox can't change how the OF works.  It sounds like you've burned out the line out amp.

[soap]

If you want problem solving - let's start with sound reasoning.

Study the block diag in the TI DAC's datasheet. Look at where the Line Out ckt is compared to HP Out and HP's vol cntrl.

If you notice in the block diagram you quote, line-out separates from headphone out before the variable amplifier.  You'll note there is no controllable hardware after said split on the line-out.  In other words nothing to mute the line-out without muting the headphones.

You'll also note that functional blocks which can mute are explicitly labeled as capable of muting, and none of those are in the audio chain in question.

Then, realize (as noted elsewhere in this thread) that RB does disable LO when vol is minimized ("0"). I need to check the status of this bit. Can you tell me how to access it in RB or via any other utility?

No bit to check. 
The headphone and line-out are both disabled at minimal volume, that happens upstream of the split.

I feel insulted by what I see as a repeated implication that I am ignoring parts of your messages.