Presenting iPod as a standard USB mass storage device for in-car use?

[NiHaoMike]

As well, I don't understand your statement about the OF disk mode. What it does is entirely unrelated to this discussion, since this discussion is about what what Rockbox could or should implement to solve the problem. Rockbox release versions won't always depend on the OF USB mode as that's just a temporary situation, and he's already moved beyond using the OF USB mode in his own personal use.

If the iPod is running a version of Rockbox that uses the stock firmware disk mode and the car radio won't work with it, then Rockbox is very unlikely to be the problem since the iPod is not running any Rockbox code while it is connected to the radio. (It could, however, insert a delay or glitch that causes the problem.) The fact that it will work only if the USB IDs are changed strongly suggests it is indeed a trick by the manufacturer to buy their overpriced cable. (Note that the stock firmware disk mode did not work, nor did Rockbox disk mode with the stock IDs. But Rockbox disk mode with custom IDs did work.)

If it's legal to do so (are USB IDs copyrighted?), I think it should be possible to change the USB IDs, but leave them set to default. I consider that a workaround for "broken" hardware and I remember that even the Linux kernel has a lot of such workarounds. It's really no different from spoofing the user agent of a browser to work around "broken" websites. Maybe implement it as a variable in the cfg file but no menu entry so it cannot be changed by accident. The few users with a need to change the ID can open the cfg in a text editor and add it in manually.

[saratoga]

I think the best solution is to do the right thing and present the correct USB ID.  If anyone needs to work around something, they can change the ID themselves.  Introducing weird things like configurable IDs makes no sense when they're only useful for a handful of people.

[AlexP]

I think the best solution is to do the right thing and present the correct USB ID.  If anyone needs to work around something, they can change the ID themselves.  Introducing weird things like configurable IDs makes no sense when they're only useful for a handful of people.

Agreed.

[torne]

If the iPod is running a version of Rockbox that uses the stock firmware disk mode and the car radio won't work with it, then Rockbox is very unlikely to be the problem since the iPod is not running any Rockbox code while it is connected to the radio.

This isn't entirely true; we reboot into the emergency disk mode in ROM which is unlikely to implement whatever protocol is required. This is *not* the same code as the OF uses if you just connect the USB cable after booting the OF. But yes, if that doesn't work either then the manufacturer is just being a pain

[Llorean]

For example, there's really no reason at all for emergency disk mode to support the accessory protocol, so if the host device is expecting that, disk mode probably won't cut it.

[NiHaoMike]

I think the best solution is to do the right thing and present the correct USB ID.  If anyone needs to work around something, they can change the ID themselves.  Introducing weird things like configurable IDs makes no sense when they're only useful for a handful of people.

I think they should be available to users without having to have them know how to compile firmware. Putting in a menu option will just add clutter but making it settable in the cfg file is fine.

[Llorean]

We generally try to avoid settings that are only changeable in the config file.

Either something is a setting that is in the menus, or it's something that shouldn't be changed directly (for example, some theme settings), or it's not a setting at all. There really isn't a middle ground for "hidden settings." In a few cases there may have been exceptions, but it's not a desired solution.

You have to understand that generally there's a preference for "take our time and do it right" rather than "put in a hack that'll get the job done until we can come back to it later."

[bifter]

Just an update on this topic from my perspective.

For about £20 I was able to get a second hand 80GB 2.5" HDD and an enclosure and this runs nicely on the USB port in the car, sits there permanently now - simple solution.

I still think it would be a nice feature for some people to be able to mount their iPod but appreciate it's a bit of a niche request and raises a few implementation issues.

[timbels]

Hello all,

Hope its ok to comment on this topic with a question myself.
I have been a verry happy user of the rockbox firmware for a long time and only now discovered this helpfull forum.

I have the same "problem" with my new car radio as bifter, only difference is i have the iPod color/Photo instead of the greyscale 4th gen.

I first tried using the custom firmware that soap linked to on mine but then the ipod would not boot anymore. I alos tried compiling myself but that seems a little to complicated.

Now my question is, if soap or someone else with the knowledge to compile can give me a compiled formware with the changed vendor id's (the same as soap did on page 1). but then for the ipod color/photo?

I would be really thankfull if someone could help me with this so i could still use my beloved rockbox/pod in the car!

Thanks in advance! (excuse the bad english, dutchman here...)

[Stringrazor]

Just bought a 2010 Nissan Altima. It has a Bose stereo w/USB port and it will only recognize my Rockbox'd iPod 80GB 5.5 when booted to the Apple OS (where I have no music loaded).  I'll try the unsupported build linked in this thread but will probably wind up using the old 20GB HD from my dead AJBR20 in a USB case.

I have to believe that as USB ports become more common in new cars, this problem will continue to grow. This situation does make RB less useful, to me at least. Please consider making the USB ID user-configurable in a future release.

[Chronon]

It isn't very much work to learn how to compile.  This is the best solution since you will be able to make your own builds with this change (the custom ID) any time you want (like when a new change that you want is included in current builds).

[torne]

Please consider making the USB ID user-configurable in a future release.

We have considered it, but nobody has proposed something generally acceptable yet. Just allowing the user to enter any value is pretty disastrous from a usability point of view, tbh; there are all kinds of problems that might result from users picking values that collide with other existing devices, and we don't want to recommend a particular alternative value either as this is in conflict with the letter and spirit of the USB-IF standards.

[Stringrazor]

It isn't very much work to learn how to compile.  This is the best solution since you will be able to make your own builds with this change (the custom ID) any time you want (like when a new change that you want is included in current builds).

I have been wanting to do that for a while but it's just one more think on the ol' TODO list...

UPDATE:
Setting up a compile environment is NOT easy for non-linux developers. I've wasted a morning and still can't get Ubuntu 9.04 to install SVN. All to just get my RB's iPod to work in a new car.

Is there a Ubuntu RB development appliance available anywhere?

[Chronon]

Stringrazor, if you have trouble with that it would probably be better to start a new topic in the "compiling" forum.  People will be happy to answer your questions and assist you there. 

These instructions should work if you're using Ubuntu:
http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/LinuxSimpleGuideToCompiling

[Stringrazor]

Thanks, as I posted over there, my frustrations were caused by a netnanny filter at work. Everything worked fine from home and I've compiled my 1st build. Now, to hack the USB ID...oh, I guess I'm not suppose to say that out loud....