RB/OF loading with USB on Fuze

[llhell]

Hi,
First I have to say I'm sorry for the long post - but this is a major issue for me with RB, and I really hope one of the developers will take the time to read this. I'm sure it's really an easy fix...

Is it somehow possible to not have the OF load when usb is connected to fuze?
I wish RB would reboot into OF only if the SELECT button IS pressed, or at least make that a configurable option in RB...

Since the whole point of installing RB is that I want to use RB, I think it makes much more sense to have that the default option when connecting to USB, rather than the other way around.

The current setting make it extremely annoying when the usb connector plays a little / turning off/on car engine, which cause the usb connection to restart, thus rebooting into OF. then to go back into RB you must disconnect the cable, turn off OF, turn on RB, hold SELECT, and reconnect the cable. yes, it may sound minor, but it's a real annoyance.

Same goes for the bootloader when the fuze is turned off and connecting to USB - personally, I would rather have RB load by default, unless pressing a spcified key, unlike the way it is right now.

Thanks!

[Llorean]

Many people plug in USB to, well, use USB. So this is just personal preference.

What you're asking for would annoy the many people who usually connect the cable to sync and transfer files and run the player off the battery during the day, or don't have a problem with holding a button to prevent connection.

Not to mention new users have no way of knowing you need to hold down a special button to get a connection, especially considering this isn't standard behaviour on the vast majority of pre-existing devices. This could easily lead to bug reports of people saying "I installed Rockbox, and now I can access my device with USB!" and so on.

Once Rockbox has a well working USB mode, reboots won't be necessary and getting back to Rockbox and music will be much quicker, but other than that, "a cable means USB by default" is how every Rockbox player works. It's been this way for years. It's unlikely the Fuze will be a special exception.

You can always alter the behaviour on your own. As something you consider a "really easy fix" compiling a slightly modified build should be more or less trivial for personal use.

[AlexP]

This has come up before for other players that don't have a Rockbox USB mode (and indeed those that do), but as Llorean says - when you plug in USB when can assume it is for one of two things - to charge or to use USB.  Whichever you chose as the default is not going to please some people.  The consensus is that the default should be to use USB, not to charge.  There isn't anything to fix, it is just personal preference.

For what it is worth, I agree with the current default.

[Llorean]

To be fair, there's been quite a bit of discussion about the idea of having an option somewhere that lets the user switch the default behaviour. But until such an option happens, going into USB mode is going to cause considerably less "I think something is broken!" style posts than seeming to do nothing when a USB cable is inserted.

[AlexP]

Yes indeed, but until such an option is there I agree that the current default is the more sensible

[yapper]

I too agree that the current behaviour is sensible.

Some devices (e.g. TomTom GPS) offer the user a choice when the device is plugged in to a USB port: "Do you want to connect to Computer? Yes / No". This is something to consider along with the idea of adding the ability for the user to choose a default.

[karashata]

I have to agree that until an option is added to choose how the USB connection operates is enabled, it's definitely better to have it connect by default.

From what I understand, the option would be similar to the USB mode choices the iriver Clix2 has, either a "Power + Data" mode (where the device charges and connects to the computer automatically) or a "Power + Play" mode (where a menu item becomes available when the USB cable is plugged in to connect to the computer rather than connecting automatically).

I could see something like that being quite nice to have, especially for those DAPs that don't have a dedicated AC charger and are usually charged via a USB port on the computer (or an adapter to connect the USB cable to an AC outlet).

[llhell]

Thank you everyone, for taking the time to reply!
Anyway, point taken. but:

1. everyone here keep saying "until an option is added". who is supposed to add that option? this really feels like an addition many could benefit from, that an experienced RB dev could add in less than 10 minutes of work...
2. I kinda hoped I wouldn't have to compile a version on my own, but if that's the only way,
I wouldn't mind adding that option myself to the RB settings, and committing the change. but could someone please give me a hint of where to start? which .c file controls USB connection behaviour,  and which file manages the settings? 

[karashata]

I don't think it would actually be as easy as you think, given how long it took and the amount of work that went into getting USB into Rockbox in the first place... (but, then again, since getting USB in was the hard part, it probably won't be as difficult to work in a choice as to whether USB connects automatically or whether it needs to be connected manually with a menu item).

As for who will add it, anyone who's interested enough in getting it in there...

Looking in the svn repository, I see two .c files in /trunk/firmware with usb in the name, those may be a good place to start...

[AlexP]

It hasn't been done as nobody that really cares enough to want it has done it.  I can't tell you what to change, but if you do you will then need to submit the patch to flyspray.

[funman]

Note the behaviour that makes Fuze (and all Sansa AMS) boot OF when USB is plugged while the device is off, is unlikely to change anytime soon (It's a critical feature considering that those devices can't be unbricked)

Though an option to ask the user before rebooting (when device is already running rockbox) might be cool

[llhell]

Well, I must admit, that was fairly easy to do the hard part was probably getting svn to work properly...

Now upon connecting USB to the fuze, RB just goes into charging mode! I'm so happy 
And if the select button is pressed while connecting - the OF loads. this is just awsome!

Now I just need to figure out how to add that functionality to the settings menu so it'll be user controlled...

 

[Rodigol]

On my side I've been "trying" to use RB on my Sansa Fuze since a while, but I have the same issue/comment about the default behavior of USB and OF loading.

I must say: for typical car usage (at least), I really think that booting OF when USB is plugged in for charging is not a good default functionality, and I really think (and I agree with llhell) that an option should be added to revert/invert the default behavior.

This is the only thing preventing me from using RB day to day in my car with my Fuze.

llhell: It seems you changed the code to "fix" this? I would be interested to see/get it...

It would nice if this change/option is included in future release of RB, maybe this could be added to an option in the .cfg file...

 

Also, some people (like me) never use the USB cable for file transfer except for updating firmware; I prefer to just take the micro SD card and swap it with another one and use a card reader to load music. In fact my Sansa Fuze stays in my car all the time.

[saratoga]

llhell: It seems you changed the code to "fix" this? I would be interested to see/get it...

It would nice if this change/option is included in future release of RB, maybe this could be added to an option in the .cfg file...

You should probably scroll up and read funman's post.  Booting from poweroff is something else entirely on the Fuze, and its not handled by rockbox but rather by the firmware patching tool mkamsboot.

[Rodigol]

Thanks for pointing this.

I am just surprised that RB has a Car Adapter Mode option but something is missing to make it actually usable...

I still think it would be worth the effort to also improve the firmware patching tool and/or the bootloader if this is what is needed.