The worst thing about rockbox

[karashata]

There are some of us here on the forums that do try to be a little more friendly and look for the answers ourselves before giving a link to the appropriate location to the person who posted the question. It may not always be thought of as the best approach by the people looking for the answers but it *is* the best way to go about it, since what might be the right answer today *could* change tomorrow as the code changes and matures. By pointing to the correct location to find an answer, we reduce the amount of wrong answers being posted on the forums as the code changes and those answers eventually become incorrect, since we're pointing people to a resource that's generally updated to keep up with the latest code changes.

Plus, we want to teach people how to look up answers themselves since we can't always be around, we have lives and jobs too.

[saratoga]

You guys really need to learn and understand this.

Why exactly?  We're an advanced firmware replacement for mp3 players.  I don't see the connection between creating tutorial videos and being useful.  People who can't learn from written words are unlikely to be interested in us anyway.  We need to do better on documentation, but catering to people who aren't interested in understanding things isn't really a good idea and not one that advances our project.

If there is any reason why rockbox has not been adopted by more people, it is the lack of support and rude attitudes on this forum. By being this way you keep your user-size very small. I suppose that is your choice.

I'll check back in again in another 18 months.

This is a dumb opinion that I doubt you actually hold.  Few users ever see the forums, and even fewer ever post here.  Even if we told everyone who came here to never use our software it wouldn't have a measurable impact on our user base.  

And actually looking at your last post, you were just riling up some other guy 18 months ago who eventually calmed down and still posts here.  So I think you're over generalizing.  You seem to have a problem but its mostly yours alone.

 

[Llorean]

Basically, answering stupid questions is my job. I understand the frustration some of you may feel.

A key difference here - you get paid for it.

If there is any reason why rockbox has not been adopted by more people, it is the lack of support and rude attitudes on this forum. By being this way you keep your user-size very small. I suppose that is your choice.

I'll check back in again in another 18 months.

I note you're not volunteering to improve the situation, you're just insisting that other unpaid volunteers do something you yourself are apparently not willing to do. Haven't you ever heard of leading by example? Or is it simply a case of hypocrisy?


You say not everyone learns the same - frankly, that's irrelevant. Anything someone can post here in the forum is no more or less the same as text in the manual - both are text, and most will be retyping of what's in the manual.

The manual, though, has the distinction of nearly always being correct, while anything posted to the forum will go out of date at some point and mislead new people. Links to the manual stay correct much, much longer.

People generally aren't referenced to the manual unless the answer is in the manual, and they aren't refused help if they don't understand the manual. So your people who learn differently just need to say "I looked in the manual. It says to do X but I don't know what that means."

There is absolutely NOTHING stopping people from doing this except the attitude that people like you seem to have that they shouldn't have been referenced to the manual in the first place.

Until we know someone has read the manual, and know what they already know, we can't help them any more than the manual could, and it makes the process more efficient for people volunteering their time if the manual is used as Step #1 in all help attempts.

[matt0001]

I note you're not volunteering to improve the situation, you're just insisting that other unpaid volunteers do something you yourself are apparently not willing to do. Haven't you ever heard of leading by example? Or is it simply a case of hypocrisy?

Of course I'm not volunteering to help. Did you not understand? I don't like your community here. Why would I possibly choose to be a part of it?

That's all. Good night.

[saratoga]

Of course I'm not volunteering to help. Did you not understand? I don't like your community here. Why would I possibly choose to be a part of it?

You very obviously do care otherwise you wouldn't keep coming back trying to tell people how to do things.  And really since you only seem to post in other peoples threads pretty soon after they're started, you probably come back here quite a bit.

I mean think about what you're saying.  You can't argue "I don't care" when you're already here and emotionally invested in something.  Its not believable. 

[Llorean]

He's offered no useful solutions. "People learn differently" does not offer a solution for how to assist these people. He mentioned tutorial videos briefly, but he's neither offered to make them nor pay for the cameras and players for one person so that he or she could make them all in the same style.  He's objected to the manual, but offered no other way to ensure that accurate information gets posted as text.

He refuses to volunteer, which means he's probably not familiar enough with how all this works to realize you don't fix a volunteer community by shouting "you're doing it wrong" from the sidelines, but rather by joining it and directing it.

It's interesting though. I offered to let him in and help us change, and his response is "no, I don't want to" pretty clearly showing he doesn't want to see the community improve - just stay as it is so he has something to whine about.

I can't tell if he's well intentioned but clueless about the realities of the actual situation or just someone trolling. Either way he adds no value to the community since he offers neither solutions nor any actual effort on his part, just a repeated statement of "I disagree with what you're doing."

The funny thing is, what we're doing actually works for something like more than 99.95% of people who've posted here, which I'd say is a rather solid success rate for free service.

[Shiftlock]

I'm also a new Rockbox user, and I've only browsed this forum a couple of times.  When I read this thread, I was overwhelmingly compelled to register and post.

honestly the worst thing I've found about rockbox is the lack of help

Really?  If anything, I found there's so much help in the way of documentation that it was almost too much.  It took me a couple of weeks to read through the manual alone.  I had a few problems, but I was able to find the solutions.

instead of being told an answer, i get pointed to where to find an answer

I actually can't believe you said this.  Are you serious?  This is exactly the way it should be done, and it's the way it's done on every forum related to anything that I've ever been a member of in my 21 years of using the internet.  If someone has already spent the time to document the answer elsewhere, why should it be repeated to you in the forum?  Have you ever heard the acronym RTFM?  There's a reason why it exists (both the acronym and the manual).

I've read, and I've searched for the question, and had turned up nothing.

If the answer doesn't exist elsewhere, then what are you being pointed to?  There's flawed logic here.

I have 4 themes I would like to submit, but I'm not sure if I want to because I got some weird error when I tried to submit them, and I don't dare ask about it on the forums.

What are you afraid of?  Someone not giving you the solution, or someone not giving it to you in the manner that you think they should?  Do you know how that sounds?

Nobody is obligated to answer your questions at all.  Everything related to Rockbox is provided free of charge.  I can't imagine how many hundreds of man-hours have gone into making Rockbox and everything that goes along with it, including these forums and all the documentation.  What right does anyone have to complain about anything at all?

Evanthepanther, I honestly believe that either you're trolling and just looking to rile people up, or you have a really warped sense that the world owes you something.  I'm not saying that to anger you or to argue.  I just think your outlook at this entire situation is about as backward and upside down as it could possibly be.  I'm impressed with the restraint that everyone has used with regard to your opinions.  For all the time and effort they donate to this project, to have a new Rockbox user come on here and complain that they're not getting their questions answered properly because they don't want to be directed toward the documentation is just... wow... ungrateful is a huge understatement!

[bluebrother]

You have two major flaws in your approach here.

As I said in my one other post in this forum, I am a reference librarian. Basically, answering stupid questions is my job.

First: You can't expect anyone to have such a job, nor want or to be suited for such a job. If you feel a need for more people like you why don't you jump in and help out? Nagging around because the people who actually do work don't do it the way you think is better is not helpful at all and won't change a thing.

But your reliance on your holy manual

There is no holy manual.

Some learn better from tutorial videos, some need some extra attention and patience to have their questions answered in a way that is helpful to them.

fine, so go and contribute some. Have you asked yourself how much got contributed in that area?

You guys really need to learn and understand this.

No, and that is the second big problem on your part here. You guys need to learn why people are working on Rockbox. And that is really simple and nothing special for open source software.

The software is made by developers because they have fun doing it. It is not made because of users. There is no product. You really need to learn this. Period. If you don't manage this you will have problems with almost all open source projects. Accept this, there's no way around it.

(besides, is the support of commercial software products that much better at all? Software you have paid for? Comparing with unrelated stuff like libraries is not valid here).

I'll check back in again in another 18 months.

I (and I bet most devs) don't consider this a loss at all.

[Shiftlock]

How perfect. I first tried rockbox about 18 months ago. While I was moderately impressed with the software, I was thoroughly turned off by the attitude on this forum. After a few months, I uninstalled rockbox and never looked back.

That can't be true.  You dumped the free software that you were impressed with because the free help wasn't good enough for you?  Who is that hurting except yourself?

But your reliance on your holy manual is totally not the way to go. Everyone learns and solves problems differently. Some (very few) can actually get through your holy manual and have all their questions answered. Some learn better from tutorial videos, some need some extra attention and patience to have their questions answered in a way that is helpful to them. You guys really need to learn and understand this.

So, your demanding that people you don't know, who don't get paid, produce a bunch of additional free tutorials in a variety of formats so that people who don't pay anything can learn to use the free software in the way that suits them best?  For what purpose would they do this?  If you can't figure out how to use the software the way it's GIVEN to you, then stick with the OEM firmware.  Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable to tell people who are giving you a free product what they "need to learn and understand"?  They aren't obligated to do any of this, and they certainly don't have to give "attention and patience" to people who can't figure out the software the way it's offered.

If there is any reason why rockbox has not been adopted by more people, it is the lack of support and rude attitudes on this forum. By being this way you keep your user-size very small.

This isn't true at all, but even if it was, so what?  If people choose not to use Rockbox, that's their loss.  It's there for you if you want it.  It is what it is.  Take it or leave it.  Nobody loses anything by having a small user-base.  This isn't a profitable venture for anyone.

I'll check back in again in another 18 months.

Suit yourself... Your loss.  If I were you, I wouldn't bother, because you don't seem to understand how community-developed software works.  I'm a brand new Rockbox user, and I would never take the attitude you have.  It's downright rude to the people who have donated their time and skill to create something that they are giving away free for anyone to use!  You're kicking a gift-horse in the mouth.

[gevaerts]

Basically, answering stupid questions is my job.

It's not ours.

[GodEater]

And I think we're done here