Problem with shutting down

[evanthepanther]

as I'm new to rockbox, i havent quite yet figured out how to make it actually sleep, so I've been shutting it down (by holding the play button). I recently put the new version (the one included in the installer) 3.5 onto my 80gb ipod video.

Now the problem is, every time i shut it down, it shows the battery image with the triangle and "!" on it, like the battery is exhausted. I cant see any problems with the battery at all, it holds a charge, and I never let it fall below 50%.

Mods, sorry if this isnt the correct thread to put the topic.

[AlexP]

Rockbox doesn't support sleep, it shuts down fully.  As for seeing the battery sign, that is a side effect of a work around for a start up problem - see http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23187.0

[evanthepanther]

it doesnt come up with that icon when it powers up, it comes up with it when it powers down, like it forces the battery to disconnect

[AlexP]

I know, did you read the thread I linked?

Even more details at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/10107

[evanthepanther]

yes I did read it...

"There is an issue on some iPods where occasionally powering on the player", but replace "on" with "off" in my case.

[torne]

The *fix for the startup problem* causes the low battery icon to be displayed at shutdown. Your ipod is working fine.

[evanthepanther]

okay thank you torne

[AlexP]

Which was stated in both things I linked you to.  I could/should have been more explicit, but I didn't feel like typing it all out again.

[torne]

Not only that, but it's also mentioned in the manual under "Turning the player on and off": http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-280003.1.2

Please read the manual for your device before you report issues...

[evanthepanther]

from you torne, in the thread with the poll:

"You don't need to vote now, because the workaround has been applied. Current development builds should hopefully not have the problem any more (and nor will 3.5 once it is released)."

mine started doing it upon installing 3.5

also I hardly think that glitches should be included in the manual. Apparently I'm one of the idiots that only reads the manual when I need to check something, or when something goes wrong. I read the battery section I didnt even think that it would be in the "turning on and off section".

[torne]

The problem being discussed in the linked threads is a startup problem which you have probably never seen. The fix for the startup problem, which is the workaround that was applied, causes the low battery icon to appear on shutdown (for complicated technical reasons). The low battery icon appearing is not a problem and has never been, it is just a cosmetic annoyance which was introduced because it was considered a good tradeoff to prevent the startup problem.

It is documented in the manual because it is a permanent fixture: everyone's ipod will do it, every time they turn off. It's not a glitch/bug, it's a minor annoying side effect of a useful fix for a different problem.

Is that clear enough yet?

[evanthepanther]

"Is that clear enough yet?"

No

"startup problem which you have probably never seen."

I boot the ipod firmware daily, and when I do, I tilt the screen to the light to see when the apple icon loads so I can switch it to hold. I have never seen the low battery icon until I installed version 3.5

"it's a minor annoying side effect of a useful fix for a different problem."

Like I said, I never had the icon come up, thus it didn't fix anything

Lastly, Torne, It looks like you developed this "fix" and your trying to protect your own contribution, which is understandable. But you cant be right all the time, I'm just trying to identify a problem within Rockbox so it can be fixed. Everything reason you said to make me believe that the "work around" is legit, doesnt apply to me. Instead of badgering a person new to Rockbox, how about you try to help them?

[AlexP]

Right, let's try again.

Some people suffered from a very annoying start up problem that meant that it was difficult to turn on their ipod.

A workaround for this startup problem has been committed, that fixes it.  This is what was being discussed in this thread.

The side effect of this fix is that everybody now sees the low battery symbol when they turn off.

It is considered better that everybody suffers from the minor cosmetic issue when turning off, than some people suffer from the more serious issue when turning on.

I really don't know how else to explain this.  We are really very sorry that you now see the low battery symbol when you turn off when you had no need of the startup fix, but it is for the greater good.

[torne]

OK, I can try one more time.

I boot the ipod firmware daily, and when I do, I tilt the screen to the light to see when the apple icon loads so I can switch it to hold. I have never seen the low battery icon until I installed version 3.5

Yes. This is correct. Older versions do not show the low battery icon. 3.5 shows the low battery icon on poweroff. Always. For everyone. This is not a bug. This is not some experience unique to you.

Like I said, I never had the icon come up, thus it didn't fix anything

The fix causes the icon to come up. That is what it does. The fix makes the icon come up on shutdown. The icon never showed up before the fix. This is what was supposed to happen. It is an unwanted but unavoidable side effect.

The fix is for people whose iPod sometimes would not turn on at all. No low battery icon was involved in that problem.

Lastly, Torne, It looks like you developed this "fix" and your trying to protect your own contribution, which is understandable.

Actually, dreamlayers developed the workaround; I committed it to the code, reluctantly, because I couldn't find a better solution to the problem where some iPods would not turn on at all. Hopefully in the future we will find a proper solution to that problem and this workaround can be removed. I have no attachment to any code I have written; if it's wrong it's wrong, if it can be improved I encourage people to do so. I do not feel the need to react according to the motives you ascribe to me.

But you cant be right all the time, I'm just trying to identify a problem within Rockbox so it can be fixed.

As a developer of this project, I make a very large effort to ensure that when I post something on the forums to answer user questions, it *is* right. If I am uncertain I would ask the other developers, to avoid spreading misinformation from a theoretically trusted source.

Everything reason you said to make me believe that the "work around" is legit, doesnt apply to me. Instead of badgering a person new to Rockbox, how about you try to help them?

You might not have experienced the problem where your iPod doesn't turn on. If so, then yes, this workaround is irrelevant to you and does nothing other than (seemingly) annoy you when you see the icon. I'm sorry about that; but we decided the benefit of having iPods always turn on for everyone was worth it. I am not badgering you, I am honestly trying to explain the situation to you so that you can see that we have a valid reason for introducing what is, to you, an annoyance.

[torne]

OK, since it still doesn't seem to be understood, here's the trivial analogy: vaccination

Sometimes people died of weird diseases (their ipods didn't turn on). Someone invented a way to prevent the disease (the code I committed). Now everyone has to suffer a needle in the arm (the low battery icon that shows up on shutdown) but at least they don't die any more (their ipods always turn on).