Frequently iPod+RB wont' boot up

[Parasite1111]

Hi folks.

First of all - thanks for a nice piece of firmware, it brought new life to my iPod.

And second - I have a small but very annoying bug(?), which sometimes driving me crazy. In general:
1. iPod Video 80Gb
2. Installed RB 3.4, restarted, booted up to RB, everything works nicely
3. Played with the settings and features about 1.5hr, until the battery get fully exhausted and ipod just shut down by itself.
4. Connected the charger. Ipod not booted (no logo, no HDD spin, while normally it is - when connecting the charger). Just a black screen as it is on Ipod being shutted down.
5. Waited for 2hrs on charging. No automatic boot (while it must, in Apple firmware). Pressed RESET combination - no luck, no boot.
6. Pressed all the buttons, randomly in different order - in tries to wake it up.
7. SUDDENLY (while on charger) it is booted up to RB and plays normally as before. Also it show a FULL battery (surely it must be so, after hours on chager).

8. Works normally for a few days, shutdowns/boots were OK.

9. SUDDENLY, after few days, it not booted up again. Randomly pressing all the buttons - no luck. Connecting charger, wait 1 hr - no luck. Randomly pressing all the buttons WHILE ON CHARGING - did the trick, again. Boots and works in normal order.

10. Works normally for a few days, shutdowns/boots were OK.

11. Next day while it was booted and in charging (USB mode, gray screen with DO NOT DISCONNECT words) - my wife accidentally plugged ipod cable out of the USB port. Ipod tried to restart to RB mode, but after the automatic shutdown it is NOT boot up, again. Pressed all the buttons - no luck, CONNECT CHARGER and pressed buttons randomly - did the trick, again.

etcetcetc.

My thoughts are: when iPod was NOT shut down properly, it is difficult (impossible?) to boot it on without plug in the charger(?). Why it is so? It is really driving me mad sometimes when "my precious" just rejecting my tries to boot up and play my music (even with the full battery!!!), and I must be sniffing around for the nearest charger - just to "wake" it up? After waking up (with the help of the charger), it works normally for hours, no problems...until the next shutdown. It is really happening accidentally, and I must pray to God every time it restarts.

With an original Apple firmware, it was NEVER be so. Works like a charm, always booting up properly.

Any comments? PLEASE.... I do not want to uninstall RB just because of this matter...  :'(

Thanks,
A.

[torne]

This is almost certainly the well known bug in the Apple bootrom. You are probably not doing the reset correctly, I'm afraid

Turn the hold switch on and then off again, then hold MENU + SELECT until the player resets and boots. This may take *over twenty seconds* of holding those buttons sometimes on some players, it seems. If this works then you are just experiencing the "standard" bug in the Apple bootrom. The reason you don't see this when using the Apple firmware is because the Apple firmware does not normally power the device off, it only goes into sleep mode. Rockbox turns the device off entirely, which is the only condition from which the bug can occur. It is not anything to do with whether it was shut down properly, it's the firmware misdetecting the battery level - if you watch the screen very carefully the first time you try to power it on, a "low battery" symbol will flash up in the centre of the screen for a moment, without the backlight on.

There is a workaround for this bug: FS#10107 changes the way Rockbox shuts the player down in a way which stops it from happening (but may have other minor side effects, read the discussion there).

[Parasite1111]

It is not anything to do with whether it was shut down properly, it's the firmware misdetecting the battery level - if you watch the screen very carefully the first time you try to power it on, a "low battery" symbol will flash up in the centre of the screen for a moment, without the backlight on.

Yes, you're right. I have seen that for several times. It is really fast - just like a blink without a backlit.
I also voted on your poll http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=23187.0

There is a workaround for this bug: FS#10107 changes the way Rockbox shuts the player down in a way which stops it from happening (but may have other minor side effects, read the discussion there).

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to apply that patch...Do I have to recompile the whole RB? Or just overwrite some files in already installed RB? I am not a programmer at all, and perhaps it is better idea for me to wait for the next RB release (in case the patch will be included)...

[torne]

You would have to recompile Rockbox to use the patch, yes. This does not require programming skills, just the ability to follow some (not *entirely* trivial, but not too challenging) instructions, which you can find on the wiki. But, it's up to you

The workaround patch will probably be included in Rockbox at some point; the purpose of the poll I created was to determine on which platforms it is relevant. An actual fix would be nice too, but nobody currently knows what that would involve (or if it's even possible).

[Parasite1111]

An actual fix would be nice too, but nobody currently knows what that would involve (or if it's even possible).

One more question please: is there anything I can do with Apple's BootPROM itself, to get rid of this issue from it's root? I meant, any official/non-official patch(es) to the original iPod f/w available? Or, as usually - this bug is well-known by Apple, but being completely ignored (as manything in their products)?
I think fixing the BootPROM itself will end up the whole story for both Apple f/w and RB together (while RB uses BootPROM to be booted).

PS: I know - this is NOT an AppleSupport forum, yes... but asking just in case. You may know about the direct fix. I just spent enough time there trying to fix other Apple's bugs (say, an iPod's SoundCheck's bug), and I already know their style of useless replies... 

[torne]

You don't mean PROM, as that's write-once. It's just flash, and yes, you can reflash it with anything you want to, should you feel the need. We don't have any code to do this, though, because there is no recovery mechanism: if you flash it with something bad, then your iPod will never work again.

We don't know what the actual bug in the boot code is, so there's no fix there. The belief that there's a bug is a presumption only, based on reports that this sometimes happens to people using the OF as well; we're pretty sure there must be a bug in the boot code, but there's no specific bit of code we can point to and say "there it is"..

[Parasite1111]

The belief that there's a bug is a presumption only, based on reports that this sometimes happens to people using the OF as well; we're pretty sure there must be a bug in the boot code, but there's no specific bit of code we can point to and say "there it is"..

Clear.

OK, as the problem is well-known by the developers - the rest is their actions.... I'll be waiting for next RB's releases, and hopefully the bug will be fixed/walked around soon. Crossing my fingers and wish you good luck, and wanna offer some help but have no any ideas yet, except to be a beta-tester.

You may close this thread. Thanks bro.