bands that start with "the"

[zipr]

I think it would be useful for the id3 database generator to move the "the"s to the end too, or ignore them (even though the band is The Clash, they show up under "C").  That way, it would work more like most of my other music software (iTunes, Winamp, Mediamonkey), works.

I added it as a feature request on the wiki some time ago.  Perhaps I'll try the patch, but I have to first figure out how to make my own Rockbox.

[saab_rider]

To be honest, I first became aware of this feature while I was browsing my friend's iPod. After that I made the request here in the forums, and bk was kind enough to provide the patch.

Since Rockbox is mainly used through the file browser, the patch was the perfect soloution for sorting folders with disregard to "The".

The only thing I see that's keeping this patch from being commited to CVS is that it doesn't add an option to turn this feature on or off. If someone can add such an option to the RB menu, maybe we can have this commited to CVS.

Regarding the database, it shouldn't be a problem at all to have this implemented. Only TagCache is fairly new, so just wait for a bit. I'm sure someone will come up with a soloution.

[CatBus]

Actually, saab, a "File Under" tag would take care of the "featured artist" problem too.  In your example, the artist would be "50 Cent feat. Eminem" and the File Under would be either "50 Cent" or "Fifty Cent" (depending on whether you wanted it sorted literally with numbers or phonetically (that's another great option I'd like to have!).

But actually I'm fine with my Lastname, Firstname filenames and tags and don't really have a problem to solve per se.  I was just wondering aloud why I should have to develop a system that's "weird" to make myself happy, instead of there being a way to make everyone happy with the same system.

[Llorean]

Really, with the arbitrary tags in WPS patch (if it were updated to allow arbitrary tags in TagCache, maybe a user-defined list of tags beyond the basic set to search for) one could fairly easily implement a "File Under" tag for Rockbox with it being completely optional and not affecting users who doesn't use it at all. You could even go beyond that to have File_Under_Album and File_Under_Artist and File_Under_Genre tags.

[CatBus]

I'm not advocating Rockbox-only tagging systems because I, and I suspect most others, use other software to play our music too.  From other DAP firmware (sorry, it happens!) to PC software.  For example, if my music sorts differently on my Rockbox-enabled DAP than it does in Amarok, I think I would have actually made things harder on myself than if I'd just left things alone.

I could, I suppose, use Rockbox as a starting point for launching a new standard in tagging conventions, which could eventually spread to all software and firmware, but frankly I'm not really sure that's the best use of this project.  Or even remotely likely.  I guess deep down I'm pretty defeatist on this topic.  So it goes.

[Llorean]

Well it seems to me it's better to be bullheaded and figure out how YOU want to sort your files, then stop using things that can't be bent to your will. But then, I'm an ornery sorta person.

[iconoclast]

With all of this talk about display names vs. sort names, and "file under" tags, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that this already exists in the id3 spec.  No need to come up with a new system, or anything rockbox specific.  Not a whole lot of other programs use/recognise the sorting tags yet, but it is compatible with those that have implemented similar features, and it's invisible to those who don't use it.  Just sort by the sorting tags if they exist, and by the "standard" tags if they don't. (always display using the "standard" tag of course.)

for id3, you'll want to use:
'TSOP' -- Performer Sort Order
'TSOA' -- Album Sort Order
'TSOT' -- Title Sort Order

and if you really want to be compatible with systems that started working on this problem before direct id3 support...
'XSOP'  'XSOA' and 'XSOT' were the experimental predecessors of the same tags.  There's probably enough of these stil arround that's it's worth supporting them as well.

as for the vorbis/flac equivalent... 'ARTISTSORT', 'ALBUMSORT', and 'TITLESORT' seem to be gaining some ground.

[saab_rider]

As I said, software/hardware doesn't take full advantage of ID3's true pottential

[Falco98]

I rename my folders (but not the actual song tags) to this:
Artist (The)
except in cases where i'd consider "the" to be a part of the phrase (or, is accentuated) and not a modifier...
"Who (The)" doesn't sound quite right ;-)

[Ignatz]

I just chopped off "The " from the folder names.  Except for "The The" which didn't seem right. 

[Yotto]

I just have them listed as "The Police" or "The Lisa Marr Experiment" and don't worry about it

[Llorean]

Oddly enough, I like having all my "The" bands clumped together. But, I'm strange.

[saab_rider]

Oddly enough, I like having all my "The" bands clumped together. But, I'm strange.

There's an arabic proverb that closely translates to: "admitting one selve's true strength (in this case quirkeness) is a vertue" :p

It's not that easy to translate, I tried to keep it as close to context as possible, but beleive me, it applies in this situation!

By no means is this ment to be disrespectfull!

[Llorean]

That being said, I do agree it'd be nice to have a sorting method.
It seems that in the future tagcache could index by TSOP if present, then XSOP if the first isn't found, then the regular artist tag if neither of those is found (of course always displaying the Artist tag). That would be maximum compatibility, not require anyone to go out of their way to use special tags, and solve everyone's problems, 'eh?

[music_lover]

For me this is not a real problem.
My musical tastes aren't fully oriented to "english-named" artists.
So, I have artists beginnin with "the" (english), but also with "i" or "le" (italian), "les" (french), "los" (espanol, portoges), "die" (german)...
So, why put a similar english-centric option in RB?