database : showing trackname whith no id3 given

[Llorean]

Yes, and it does so very badly, and people have been saying this feature should be removed for a while. It's just simply that nobody has done it yet.

[soap]

I would also assume that parsing out a number would be much more reliable than parsing out a specific string. 
I seems to me it would be easier to safely guess a track number from a release year than to guess a track title from an album title from an artist.

[Llorean]

Well, one problem is that not all numbers are track numbers. Some files may be singles, with no track number in the filename *or* the tags, but the filename track number guessing code will simply grab numbers out of the filenames anyway to be used as track numbers.

The "ideal" solution might be a format string similar to those used by tag and rename programs, where you can type in something like "\[Artist]\[Album]\[tracknum] - [trackname].*" as a general format string, and for any missing tags, if they show up in that string that part of the path is used to fill in the tag. This way no "guessing" is necessary. The user explicitly tells the program how files will be named if they wish to use filename parts in the database.

[7o9]

he's not asking to parse the filename though, he suggests using the entire filename as title if the id3 title field is empty/missing.

parsing the tags based on the filename would be next to impossible without a (configurable) format string like Llorean suggested.

[Llorean]

Yes, but using the whole filename is a bad idea for people who *don't* want the filename used as the Title.

By having a format string, you make it opt-in instead of just forcing the behaviour on people.

[soap]

I wasn't trying to say parsing the track number was easy - I was attempting to say it was easier - adding that to Llorean's point that even that was not reliable.

[motorbit]

i think i have to agree to you in one important point:
i do not have a good reason not to use a tag for the filename.
i have however some weak reason:
*its redunant. filename and id3tag for filename are the same in my libary. this argument only apllys to me, i confess.

*i think it is not whise *not* to do it as all the other players do it. it may feel more individual, but it also may lock out some users.

*i can not see any disatvantage by adding this little pice of acessabilty (maby i just still did not get one point, this is perfectly possible.)

Yes, but using the whole filename is a bad idea for people who *don't* want the filename used as the Title.

if the filename wuld be used as a fallback option only, tracks with id3 tag for the filename wuld not be shown any different than now.

parsing the tags based on the filename would be next to impossible without a (configurable) format string like Llorean suggested.

i do not think there wuld be a need to configure anything - just parse the whole file name. file name is absolute, there is nothing to guess.

There is one problem with the argument that Rockbox shouldn't "guess" the track title if not present in the tag: it already tries to guess the track number...  (as Llorean added: with limited sucess)

why rb is doing so? just take the filename, and sort alphabeticaly.
just like any other player does it.


i dont want to offend anybody, but to me it appears as if the id3 database of rb may benefit a lot from a improved error-tollerance.

[gevaerts]

*i think it is not whise *not* to do it as all the other players do it.

name three

[AlexP]

i dont want to offend anybody, but to me it appears as if the id3 database of rb may benefit a lot from a improved error-tollerance.

Error-tolerance or refusal-to-use-tags-for-a-tag-database-tolerance?

As has been pointed out, your proposal could increase the error for people that use a different file naming technique than you.

*i think it is not whise *not* to do it as all the other players do it.

As with gevaerts, I was unaware that *any* players did this.  All other is clearly wrong.

[motorbit]

ok, i tested the following players:

software:
foobar2k: shows trackname in "title" if no id3 tag is set
windows media player: shows trackname in "title" if no id3 tag is set
itunes: shows trackname in "title" if no id3 tag is set
windows media center: shows trackname in "title" if no id3 tag is set
jetaudio: shows nothing in "title" if no id3 tag is given
rockbox: shows "untagged" in "title" if no id3 tag is given

hardware:
phillips gogear  HDD6330: shows trackname in "title" if no id3 tag is set
cowon D2+:shows trackname in "title" if no id3 tag is set


dont have more players installed, dont have more pmp


[edit]not only you made me use itunes, but also windows media player and windows mediacenter! shame on you! ^^ [/edit]

[Llorean]

In their metadata databases, or on the playback screen? They're two entirely different concepts.

Being able to "browse by filenames" is not the same thing either as having a metadata database that indexes filenames in the place of tags. You can already browse by filenames in Rockbox. Please, try to limit it to the most comparable circumstances possible, and explain exactly what screen/list you're referring to.

For example, iTunes's situation is definitely quite different from Rockbox's database.

[motorbit]

i did all tests with playlists and bibliotheks, where the players behaived als written.
jetaudio will show the filename in "now playing" when no tag is given (and the tag if one is given) but no filename within the playlist or bibliothek if no tag is present.

there is an update, the windows media center

[Llorean]

Please, use English. I have no idea if you mean "library" or "database" or simply "music browser" by "bibliothek."

Our playlists, for example, always show the filename. That's why I wanted you to be explicitly clear about what screen you're referring to in what program.

Also, does it tell you it's the "title" or just "track name" or "name" or what? Are they explicitly "metadata databases" or "music libraries" or what?

You're making broad generalizations, but not actually explaining anything.

[evilnick]

I think that you misunderstood Llorean.

He explained that it's quite different to display the filename as the music is being played back (which Rockbox currently does, at least with the default theme) than it is to assume that the filename is the title of the song within the database.

[motorbit]

i did the  testings as far as i understood your question, an i think i tested what you wanted me to test:


itunes: afaik itunes has only *one* libary mode... where it shows metadatas. but it will show the filename there, if no metadata for the filename is set.

wmp/wmc is doing it pretty much like itunes, altrough it looks fundamental different.

foobar: i only tested playlists - these show metadata as default and filename only as fallback. sry, i dont want to spend 2 hours configure foobar to a way i dont want it to get a libary working that i dont need. im quite sure it wuld do just like it does with playlists now.


D2: when browsing by the database (ie: by artist, by album, etc), the d2 will show the filename when no tag for the filename is present within the metadata.
it always shows the filename if browsing by filestructure, no mater if a id3 tag is present.


gogear: this pmp is doing pretty much asame, exept he can not browse by filestructure but will always sort tracks by a metadata based libary.

does it tell you it's the "title" or just "track name" or "name" or what?

non of the above players interface change when no filename is present within the metadata. they will just show the physical filename where else the metadata-file-name wuld appear


jetaudio is doing it just like rockbox. it will show the filename for the track "now playing", but no entry for the filename in playlists/libarys if no id3 tag for filename is given.