Just complaining

[Skyly]

Years ago my H340 was stolen and the replacement I bought came with battery issues, so I haven't used it nor Rockbox for quite some time. But now with a dead laptop and too much spare time, I think I've given it a decent workout lately. But I have to say, I'm kind of disappointed. 

Before I get angry responses, ask yourself if you would prefer I just pretend that I wasn't disappointed. I'm attacking the working, not the people. I appreciate how much has been done, and I prefer Rockbox over iriver's software. It's about the only thing I use which doesn't stink of consumer friendly faff software (yeah, I used Vista), but the frequency of problems I run into using Rockbox is still a let down.

So on with the venting.

Firstly, the crashing. Bad show, really.
Two months ago I grabbed about 15 paperclips from work. Today I found myself hunting my room for the last one. This means I've had at least 15 crashes in 2 months, but it's more like 30. They seem to come in groups. What's sad is that crashing seems to be just as frequent now as it was in the build I had 2 years ago.

While-recording, crossfading, and playlist-reordering crashes seem to be improved, only to be replaced by Replace-dynamic-playlist and Enter-Recording-screen crashes.

Meanwhile:
Playlist Catalog
View Catalog
[Hold Select]

Repeat this 3 times. It's a guaranteed and simple crash. Now this is an easily fixed bug, no? How many years must pass before it is picked up? I guess it suggests some design work too, but whatever. I don't want to tell developers how to do anything, I just want to say that it doesn't look very.. professional.

And that's the question. Is Rockbox meant to be competing with professional standards? I thought it was. But as good as it is, and as much as I prefer it over iriver's software, an OS that requires paperclips-on-demand just can't hold up. I like Rockbox alot, but if I hand my H340 to a friend, proud of its super versatility despite the size, then it crashes... I feel like Gates on that sunny Windows 95 BSOD morning.

It has all this good stuff, but after 2 years it still just bloody keeps crashing where other DAP OSs don't. 
Sorry to be a whiner, but that's how I feel. Should I just accept it? Is that what happened in Rockbox development? Everyone just said "Oh well, we will just keep the crashes in".

The interface bothers me too, but that's more something I want to suggest as opposed to a real complaint. I just wish some things were more standard.. sometimes the Play button does absolutely nothing, for example, when usually it's the direct way to the WPS. Just one thought.

Oh and the database. Well, I'm not too annoyed about it because I suppose I can just accept that the Database feature is still a work in progress. But I have realised that there's no point in using Rockbox to rate my songs because in a week or 2 the whole thing's going to fall over and possibly need to be initialised again. I'm not the only one finding the Database unreliable, right?

Anyway, yeah, a lot of crashing still. Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but it's only fair I say what I feel.

[Llorean]

For your "simply fixed bugs" - Are they even listed in the tracker?

I've used Rockbox for years, including on a player with remarkably similar hardware to your H300 and have seen maybe 10 crashes total in those 4ish years, except in cases where I was running a patch from the tracker specifically expected to be unstable. These crashes were all due to bugs that have since been fixed.

Have you considered that maybe your H300 has problems that other ones haven't had?

But the important thing is - post them in the tracker. Document them clearly. Bugs don't get fixed if people don't know about them, and a crash that requires you to repeat something three times in a row that you don't typically do three times in a row isn't exactly the most obvious bug.

So, instead of whining, why not actually be proactive? If you've spent two years *not* posting bugs in the tracker, especially bugs other people obviously aren't experiencing (or at least, also aren't reporting), who's to blame for the fact they aren't fixed - the people who aren't experiencing them so can't know about them, or the people who are experiencing them but can't be bothered to file tasks?

[yapper]

It would also be useful to know which version/release of Rockbox you are using.

[pwhodges]

I have had a couple of experiences of crashing or misbehaviour of Rockbox on an H340.  On each occasion it has been completely cured by running a disk check and repair.

The problem came down to the fact that Windows sees the H340's disk as a real disk, and sets up System Restore monitoring and a recycle bin on it - this makes it impossible to release the device correctly, and so file system corruption may be caused when it is removed.  I now always turn off Restore and the recycle bin on the H340 before removing it, and the problem hasn't recurred.

Paul

[Skyly]

This has all been using version 3.3 and 3.2.

Sure it could be my particular mp3 player, isolated incident, and only in the Rockbox OS.

As for whining vs being proactive - I'm simply expressing feelings and my difficulty in understanding the current state of things. I assume that developers are already completely aware of these crashes and much more informed than I. If my assumption is bad, well it only furthers my disappointment because I don't see how these bugs could be missed so much. In short, the crashes are well-known and still exist, or not well-known and I don't see how that is possible. I don't mean to be a whiny cow, but I do think it's fair to whine here.

(Seriously, are there no other heavy users that get a crash like at least every 2 days?)

The playlist catalog bug is badly obvious in my opinion. I didn't find it by accident - it would be nearly impossible for anyone to stumble upon it through practical use. I found it because as soon as I understood the menu system, it was there to be seen. "Oh, so I can create context menus forever". If this is a difficult bug for the designer or coder to spot, I'm at a loss.

But sure.. I'll post it on the tracker.

And I'll try that Windows disk check/Restore advice too.

[GodEater]

Well, like Llorean, I don't own the *exact* same player as you, but I have the iRiver H140, which is very similar. I seriously cannot remember the last time it crashed.

The developers here can't possibly be aware of all the bugs that exist in the code, otherwise they'd be working on fixing them. That's just not how software development goes I'm afraid. We absolutely *rely* on people telling us about them so we can fix them.

[AlexP]

This is the first report I have seen of the H300 crashing as you describe.  If it isn't known, it can't be fixed, simple as.

[LambdaCalculus]

My girlfriend and I both have H300s, her longer than I have (2 years for her). She's never had a single crash like the the one described.

Perhaps the original poster may have some kind of hardware problem?

[AlexP]

Perhaps the original poster may have some kind of hardware problem?

Maybe, or it may be some odd combination of settings.  Either way, it isn't a common problem, and so to fix it we a)  need to know about it in the first place and b)  need some way of reproducing it.

Up until now, neither a nor b has been true.  a now is, but not b.  Could the OP attach his config.cfg so we can see what the settings are?

I assume that developers are already completely aware of these crashes

They aren't

If my assumption is bad, well it only furthers my disappointment because I don't see how these bugs could be missed so much. In short, the crashes are well-known and still exist, or not well-known and I don't see how that is possible.

It is eminently possible, and is in fact the case.  They are not well known.

The playlist catalog bug is badly obvious in my opinion. I didn't find it by accident - it would be nearly impossible for anyone to stumble upon it through practical use. I found it because as soon as I understood the menu system, it was there to be seen. "Oh, so I can create context menus forever". If this is a difficult bug for the designer or coder to spot, I'm at a loss.

And yet this is the first time that it has been mentioned.  Nobody else has spotted it, or if they have, nobody has mentioned it.  Take from that what you will.

I have a H100 that is very similar in hardware to the H300 and when it crashes it also requires a paperclip.  I haven't used a paperclip in the last three years.

[Skyly]

Wow. Well all I can say is I'm gobsmacked, and feeling ripped off once again because I seem to have bad luck with electronics which is nothing short of spiritual. I once warned a guy about this before he lent me his Zen. I made him assure me that it was okay with him if it completely died while I had it. Two days later it completely died.

I guess I just thought it was business as usual, since the frequency of crashing didn't seem to have changed since the last time I had used it, with a different version on a different unit. I'm amazed to hear people talking about years between crashes. This is the kind of Rockbox I dream of, but have never used. It really must be me. I mean, it's crashed 2 more times since this thread was started.

I'll stick these crashes on the tracker then. Config file attached. Man why me?

[AlexP]

Hard to say why you really - possibly bad luck, or some odd circumstances, or...

Have you tried a fresh install with reset settings just to make sure it isn't some odd combination?  (I'm sure you have, but it pays to make sure).