Interpret numbers when sorting; alternate submenu wording.

[dunno]

currently the submenus are
As Digits
As whole numbers

might I suggest the following instead;
With leading zero
No leading zero

Most tag applications have "leading zero" as the descriptor in options for respective "Numeric file sorting" settings, and it is far more descriptive than "As digits", or "Whole numbers"

Love this option, wish it had been done years ago, but got to keep busy whilst retired and retagging my collection without leading zeros is one way 

Many thanks.

[AlexP]

Have a look through the IRC logs to see the argument that has raged over many many days about the naming of this option...

[dunno]

Have a look through the IRC logs to see the argument that has raged over many many days about the naming of this option...

Indeed...

But what do you think, "With leading zero; No leading zero", more descriptive or not for "Numeric file order" ?.

[Llorean]

It's not just about leading zeroes. In fact, leading zeroes don't actually factor into it at all.

1, 10, 2, 20, 3, 30 vs 1, 2, 3, 10, 20, 30. Notice a complete lack of leading zeros in those two lists of numbers? Yet they're one demonstration of the two different ways the algorithm sorts.

It would be completely misleading to name it your way.

[dunno]

It's not just about leading zeroes. In fact, leading zeroes don't actually factor into it at all.

1, 10, 2, 20, 3, 30 vs 1, 2, 3, 10, 20, 30. Notice a complete lack of leading zeros in those two lists of numbers? Yet they're one demonstration of the two different ways the algorithm sorts.

It would be completely misleading to name it your way.

Hello Paul,
on the contrary, it's all about leading zeros, prior to this option if you wanted your tracks displayed in numerical file order in rockbox then tracks 1 through to 9 HAD to have a leading zero because, as you pointed out a long time ago thats how proper OS's display it, and windows way of displaying a numeric file list sequentially without leading zeros was/is incorrect, Linux rules and all that...
I have no idea of how ASCI sort algorithms are supposed to work, what I do know is that rockbox forced me to add leading zeros to my music collection so that the files would be numerically sorted, now I can go back to windows way of numbering my music without leading zeros.

[Llorean]

So, can you explain to me where the leading zeros are in my example?

Or how someone who doesn't know about the leading zeros trick is supposed to have any idea what the option does based on your name for it?

The option has nothing to do with leading zeros. They were simply a trick you could come up with to trick the original sort. They're unnecessary now, yes, but they don't actually factor into the sorting differences. The differences are all in how the digits after the zeros are interpreted.

[dunno]

So, can you explain to me where the leading zeros are in my example?

Or how someone who doesn't know about the leading zeros trick is supposed to have any idea what the option does based on your name for it?

The option has nothing to do with leading zeros. They were simply a trick you could come up with to trick the original sort. They're unnecessary now, yes, but they don't actually factor into the sorting differences. The differences are all in how the digits after the zeros are interpreted.

it's simple, really, are your tracks tagged with leading zeros yes or no ?, that's the most common, obvious and often used method to tag ones files and used in most tagging applications, most folks know how they tag their music and they can SEE whether they have leading zeros in their tracks and it's easy to identify with, a no brainer really, that's how non developers see it.

Thank heavens for the manual......

[Llorean]

You seem to have completely missed my point:

This will change the sort order EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE LEADING ZEROS. If someone's songs are in the right order without leading zeros, this may change its order.

[dunno]

If someone's songs are in the right order without leading zeros, this may change its order.

Nope, I spent hours yesterday removing all the leading zeros from my 5029 tracks, and they all now still display nicely sequentially thanks, but if the other option is selected then they're not sequential any more, that's true, I have the option enabled that keeps my tracks sequential without leading zeros.

[Llorean]

Just because yours sort fine doesn't mean everyone's will. Seriously, do you honestly believe that it's impossible to tag songs that sort one way with the old sort, and a different way with the new one? I even gave you an example of a list of numbers that sorts two different ways.

It's NOT about leading zeros. It will not be renamed. These are two things that are already decided, I was just trying to explain to you why it won't be renamed. If you can't understand this, I'm done.

[dunno]

Just because yours sort fine doesn't mean everyone's will. Seriously, do you honestly believe that it's impossible to tag songs that sort one way with the old sort, and a different way with the new one? I even gave you an example of a list of numbers that sorts two different ways.

It's NOT about leading zeros. It will not be renamed. These are two things that are already decided, I was just trying to explain to you why it won't be renamed. If you can't understand this, I'm done.

I'm not insisting you change anything at all, it was just a suggestion, don't be so sensitive.

Thanks for the great discussion, although I'm sorry that you don't grasp my point, as always you see everything from a developers viewpoint and not the user.

[Llorean]

And you see things from your own personal viewpoint, while ignoring the possibility that there are users out there who don't share it.

Not everyone has, needs, or wanted previously leading zeros, and most of those people will not understand an option named after them.