current feature tweak

[ThaCrip]

i dont know how to reply to something on that one part of the website so ill just copy and paste what was said....

Usability study... ( which is what is here,  http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2009-01/0191.shtml )
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Hi all,

I was thinking of doing a think-out-loud usability study of rockbox on
some of the members of my family and recording the results for the
rockbox community. I was just wondering whether people think this is a
good idea or whether a different approach should be used.

If people like the idea then it would be nice to have an idea of what
sort of task an end user should be able to perform. My ideas were:

. Turn off and on
. Play a music file
. Pause a music file
. Fast forward/rewind
. Change volume
. Create a play list
. Add to the play list
. Play play list
. Shuffle play list
. Delete music file
. Delete music folder

--------------------------------

one thing i would like to comment on that i keep forgetting to ask is...

on the 'playlists' tab when you first access it from the main menu it goes to 'create playlist' instead of the more used 'view catalog'.

BEcause to me it makes more sense to have the 'view catalog' at the top of the playlist menu so that when you access the playlists menu it will immediately be accessible instead of like it is now where you scroll down to it.

BEcause main reason i suggest this is... on average im using the 'view catalog' much more often than i am actually creating playlist... so it seems to make more sense (i.e. slightly more efficient) to have that at the top of the menu than it currently is.

any comments or maybe reason's why it's like it is now? (maybe im missing something people use that im not aware of as to the reason it's like it is now)

[JdGordon]

you do know that cause means something completly different to the slaang word "coz" right? the word you want is because

[Llorean]

That "something" you don't know how to reply to is simply the mailing list. You subscribe, you get emails, you reply to them like you reply to normal emails.

As to whether "view catalog" is more used, some people don't use the playlist catalog at all. In a practical sense, it makes more sense to have a nicely organized folder structure of playlists. Doing so can mean a lot less scrolling if you have many playlists. So while you may feel the catalog is "more used" you have to remember, many people do not have your using habits. I'm not saying "create playlist" is more used but it's something people can use even when they're not using the catalog, and a feature that's been around much longer than the catalog.

[ThaCrip]

maybe im misunderstanding you but the point i was trying to make is it would seem the 'create playlists' is used far less often then actually USING the playlist, right?

if that's true, then what i said would make sense right? (basically what i was asking would be very slightly 'quicker' than the way it is now is all since there's less movement needs on the scroll wheel etc )

p.s. im not starting anything im just curious is all... like i say it's not a big issue, i just thought i would mention it since it would (at least in my case) be slightly more efficient than the current way the menu's are setup is all.

no offense to anyone... if there's something im missing then please correct me

so basically what im asking is... on main menu when first powered on... you scroll down to 'playlists' and when you click it (the playlists) i think it would make more sense for the 'playlist catalog' to be instantly selectable in the next screen instead of having to scroll down to select is all im saying.... cause currently when you enter the playlist menu the immediately highlighted thing is 'create playlist' ... so initially when MAKING playlist the way it's setup is better but once you created the playlists the way i suggested would be overall better in the big picture since you would be USING the playlist more than making them .... see what i mean now? (or am i missing something?)

im NOT saying to put the playlist on top of the main menu.... cause in general i think the way the overall Rockbox application is setup is pretty close to perfect already... i just had that minor gripe is all

[Llorean]

You completely misunderstood what I said.

Not everyone uses playlist catalog, even if they do use playlists, as you can access playlists through the file browser. But if you wish to create playlists at all in Rockbox, there are situations where "Create Playlist" is the only effective way to do it.

[ThaCrip]

You completely misunderstood what I said.

Not everyone uses playlist catalog, even if they do use playlists, as you can access playlists through the file browser. But if you wish to create playlists at all in Rockbox, there are situations where "Create Playlist" is the only effective way to do it.

yes i do see playlist on the main menu but that's not what i mean, ill explain what i mean exactly below (for those who do use playlists)...

and sure, i aint saying to get rid of 'create playlist' i was basically just asking to 'swap' the way it's listed on the menu.... so instead of listing the 'create playlist' FIRST (like it is currently by default) and the 'view catalog' listed 4th on the list... i basically just wanted to swap the two... so 'view catalog' would be first and 'create playlist' would be last (or anything besides first listed) as this would save a little bit of time when USING the playlists is all

because initially the way i suggested would add a little time to MAKING playlist... but in the long run it would be better since for those who do use playlists it would be more efficient since everytime you want to select the 'view catalog' you wont have to spend extra time scrolling down to it as it would be immediately selected once you enter the 'playlist' menu from the main menu.

that make more sense?

but yeah i would agree with you that not everyone uses the playlists... im just saying for people who do what i suggested seems slightly more efficient than the way the menu is currently setup now is all.

p.s. i did a clean install of v3.1 when i installed it if that matters.

[Llorean]

I never said "not everyone uses playlists" because obviously our conversation is only relevant to people who do use them anyway. Read what I'm saying more carefully, and try it without the "assume he doesn't understand what I'm saying" bit.


People who DO use playlists may not EVER need playlist catalog, because it's entirely unnecessary. Playlists were supported and used for years in Rockbox before playlist catalog even existed.

[ThaCrip]

I never said "not everyone uses playlists." Read what I'm saying more carefully, and try it without the "assume he doesn't understand what I'm saying" bit.


People who DO use playlists may not EVER need playlist catalog, because it's entirely unnecessary. Playlists were supported and used for years in Rockbox before playlist catalog even existed.

OK, i guess i just dont understand the basics of using a SAVED playlist for future use without using the catalog. if that can be done?

cause the only way i did it (which was explained in here a while ago to me) was that you create a playlist of songs you want and then after you power off the player and want to use that again you just goto the playlist catalog and then you can load up exactly what you wanted before.... which is the only way to do it right? (like i say i dont have much experience with playlists in general)

or are you saying if you make a playlist without the catalog it can still be used even after the DAP is turned off? ... do most people just make a playlist as it's needed and when the player is turned off it's lost?

sorry for the questions but i just dont understand WHY the create playlist is listed first over the 'view catalog' since 'create playlists' is ONLY good for MAKING playlists, right?

as you can see i dont think i understand the basic concept of playlists without doing it the way i did it unless maybe you create playlists temporarily per use of the player which as far as i can tell would be a pain in the butt.

[Llorean]

You can run a playlist from the filetree just like selecting a song. The catalog is entirely unnecessary, it's just an alternative means of organizing and manipulating playlist.

You can save them anywhere in the filetree, and use them simply by clicking select on them.

You never, ever have to go into the 'playlists' menu to use playlists. Ever. It's completely optional.

Isn't creating, playing and saving playlists covered in the manual?

[ThaCrip]

You can run a playlist from the filetree just like selecting a song. The catalog is entirely unnecessary, it's just an alternative means of organizing and manipulating playlist.

You can save them anywhere in the filetree, and use them simply by clicking select on them.

You never, ever have to go into the 'playlists' menu to use playlists. Ever. It's completely optional.

Isn't creating, playing and saving playlists covered in the manual?

OK ill have to play around with this til i figure it out

and yes, it's covered in the manual but i dont think it's in a super easy to understand way i guess you could say. lol ( no offense ) (cause like i said before someone had to explain to me in these forums a while back on how to use it so the way im using it now is the only way i know how to use it with a saved playlist )

but now that we got that out of the way... IF you did want to use it the way im accessing it... i still think my original argument is valid even though it's very minor. ... because what where talking about now seems like a different way of using the playlist which even though i thank you for your time and telling me how to use it in a different way i dont think it has much to do with my original suggestion.

no offense to anyone im just suggesting something is all and i thank everyone for there time

EDIT: i think im somewhat seeing what you mean now as i just did this...

Files > HOLD DOWN SELECT then i can access 'playlist catalog' there, then view catalog.

[Llorean]

Your original suggestion is based on the idea that "Playlist Catalog" is necessary for using playlists. The idea that it's not only unnecessary, but in many cases entirely unused changes the entire scope of your original suggestion.

[ThaCrip]

Your original suggestion is based on the idea that "Playlist Catalog" is necessary for using playlists. The idea that it's not only unnecessary, but in many cases entirely unused changes the entire scope of your original suggestion.

maybe, but IF you use that my question is still valid.

well in general i think if your going to use a playlist it needs to be saved for future use so u can reload those songs so they will play (say 10 songs u selected for example) in the future.... cause using a temporary playlist (i assume u can do this?) aint something i would mess with since it would cost more time than it's worth especially if your planning on listening to the songs u added to the playlist for any length of time (which i do)

but liked i said in my above post when i edited it... "goto Files then HOLD DOWN SELECT then i can access 'playlist catalog' there, then view catalog." ... is this pretty much what you mean as far as basic playlist use without actually going to the 'playlist' menu on the main menu?

[Llorean]

I said you can do it without using the playlist catalog. I wouldn't have said that if I just meant "you can get to the playlist catalog other ways."

[ThaCrip]

ok i think we have another misunderstanding again.

sorry. (i edited my post above is that will help at all)

p.s. at the end of the day.... i think i dont know the details of using playlists/playlist catalog etc etc in general which is probably why we keep going back and fourth about this stuff lol

but i guess i just dont see the point of using a playlist in general if you cant save it for future use... cause say you spend 5-10minutes setting up a playlist of songs (say 20-30songs) and then it aint saved so it gets erased or something... it just dont seem worth the time to setup the playlist in the first place.

thanks for your time though... and sorry i aint trying to upset you or anything.... i guess i just dont understand the point of playlist if they aint saved for future use.

[Llorean]

1) Our forum guidelines require you attempt to use proper English. That's why JdGordon corrected you on using "because" earlier, and now you're using "u" instead of "you." You need to stop that, now. Please fix your posts to be in line with the forum guidelines.

2) The misunderstanding is that you apparently don't know the features Rockbox currently offers. You can save, permanently, playlists without ever using the playlist catalog. Try pulling up the manual, sitting down with your player, and reading through the appropriate portions of the manual carefully.

3) Please stop editing posts *after* your post has been replied to. It makes the conversational thread almost impossible to follow if new information exists above the post that comes before it was written.