Complaint about forum policy

[rot]

I have to post here as i can't send PMs (very nice idea) and thus can only reply publicly. I expect this post will be deleted soon but still the person i address this to will probably read it.

i was asking here if there is some kind of development status info and if there is some kind of alpha version or something i could test. and i gave you credits for trying to  port to ams. so i though i was respectful and thanked for your great work.

despite that this was only interpreted as some kind of asking for a release date as i only got a pm as reply that said "don't ever ask for release dates". i didn't do so. i was also involved into open source projects - so i would not expect someone to be able to tell something like that if a release plan is not something the projects working style includes. finally my posting was deleted.

i am fed up with that kind of reply. i believe this shows some kind of strange culture here. i still can't believe it. i am really disappointed. i am not able to even think about rockboxing any player at the moment anymore. i would be ashamed to be associated in any kinds with such a community that aggressively attacks people who just ask on how you are doing in the project. i don't even want to imagine what would happen if i would ever need some kind of assistance. if i would ask something out of focus in irc i would probably get kickbanned - at least if that behaviour is something that is common here.

you could show some kind of respect and culture by not deleting this post but maybe only moving it somewhere else if it does not fit here.

[Llorean]

I like the part where you said we could show some respect by moving it, when you couldn't show the basic respect to try to figure out where it belongs. There's even a part in the guidelines for this section that says that if you're not sure where it belongs, post it here, so it's really not complicated.

I'm not the person who deleted your post, but you asked for two things - "a summary" which suggested you hadn't actually read the thread or searched for the wiki pages yourself and just wanted someone else to do it for you, and a test version to "try." With no offense intended, neither of these requests in any way furthers development, and that forum specifically says it is for development discussion, and NOT to ask for progress information.

While you may feel it was acceptable to do so, it doesn't change the fact that your post wasn't in accordance with posted guidelines. If you feel the guidelines aren't acceptable, you get them changed first. You don't break them, then whine because someone actually enforced them. It's not like you weren't warned.


I'd just like to further that, as you seem to be familiar with open source, you should be aware that it's many individuals, not one entity. You're now blaming the project, Rockbox, for the actions of a single individual.

[rot]

i spent about one hour trying to figure out the development status - and all i found was the dev forum and some pages about technical details and the info its not supported for now.

so i posted a question in the dev forum if there is the status anywhere to be found and if there is a test version.

i don't complain there is a forum policy. the complaint is for not listening to my question (asking for a reference to some status info) but just deleting the post and replying "dont' ever ask for a release date'.

but still it's not very useful that there is no "discuss" forum on the specific hardware (only a dev foum). so there is no place for someone from outside to ask questions.

[Llorean]

When the player is supported, it will be listed as supported. Since we can't estimate release dates, and you admit to knowing that, what further status info could you possibly need for something other than simply satisfying your curiosity? The status is "it's not done yet, and we don't know when it will be done." Anything else is more or less irrelevant. As long as it's not usable, it's not usable. And since there's no release dates, it doesn't matter how close we get to usable, there's still no way to estimate when it will be.

Questions like that just make it harder to use the "search" function of the forums because they pop up in the results.

What exactly would you ask in the "discuss" forum that would actually forward development?

[rot]

i think your reply said everything about your way of thinking. there is no use in informing the outside world. and everything that counts is the "progress" - how ever it may be.

if you don't want to be open to the outside world the hide the forum from it. and close down the wiki or password protect is. since curiosity is something bad. and public interest too.

i would really sugest doing that so that nobody thinks you might be happy if someone gets too interested.

[Febs]

if you don't want to be open to the outside world the hide the forum from it. and close down the wiki or password protect is. since curiosity is something bad. and public interest too.

I'm sensitive to your main point, but with all due respect, this sort of hyperbole really detracts from what I think you're trying to say.

Please understand that there are two primary purposes of these forums.  The first is to facilitate discussion relating to Rockbox development, including both porting Rockbox to new players and addressing development issues on existing Rockbox players.  That is why the "Rockbox Development" exists.  With respect to porting Rockbox to new platforms, we have structured the "New Ports" subforum so that there is a single thread for each new platform.  That helps to keep all of the information related to the development effort for any platform in one place and makes it easier for those working on porting Rockbox to a new platform to get up to speed on the work that is done and to facilitate ongoing development efforts.  Since those threads can often get quite long anyway, I'm sure you can understand that repeated inquiries about the status of development efforts is counterproductive.

The second purpose of these forums is to provide end-user support for Rockbox.  We will provide support for any of the players that are listed on the front page of the Rockbox site.  Any other players are not yet ready for end users:  either there are no efforts underway to port Rockbox to those players or the ongoing efforts have not progressed to a point where end users should be using it.   There are many reasons that we choose not to provide end-user support in those instances, including that those development builds are often unstable, may not have all of the buttons mapped, may have idiosyncracies that do not yet conform to documented Rockbox behavior, and, in some instances, may pose a threat of bricking a player if proper precautions are not taken. 

Once a development effort has progressed to a point where certain criteria are met, then the Rockbox port to those platforms becomes "supported," and we encourage users of those platforms to install Rockbox and we happily provide support for it.  If people are really interested in simply following along to see how development is going, they can read the development thread, the IRC logs, and the wiki pages associated with those ports.  But since it is impossible to predict the progress of a particular port when the people working on those ports are volunteers and are often working with undocumented hardware, we really can't answer questions about when a port will be ready.

[saratoga]

i spent about one hour trying to figure out the development status - and all i found was the dev forum and some pages about technical details and the info its not supported for now.

Theres a link on this page:

www.rockbox.org.

I asked to have it put on the front page about 8 months ago so that people could find info about new ports easily.  I figured that anyone interested in rockbox would read the front page.  Was my assumption poor?

so i posted a question in the dev forum if there is the status anywhere to be found and if there is a test version.

The link also answers this question.  It was put there months ago because people kept asking about it.

i don't complain there is a forum policy. the complaint is for not listening to my question (asking for a reference to some status info) but just deleting the post and replying "dont' ever ask for a release date'.

I don't remember if I deleted your post, I could have, I have to delete so many.  I try to give people helpful PMs, but I get tired of endlessly answering the same questions from people who can't be bothered to read the wiki before they post.

but still it's not very useful that there is no "discuss" forum on the specific hardware (only a dev foum). so there is no place for someone from outside to ask questions.

Did anything you asked have any usefulness to anyone working on the port?  Thats the answer I ask when I delete posts.  I think the answer was "No" because you asked a common question that had been discussed at length in the thread already, and was already documented on the wiki. 

The forums aren't about personal convenience but about allowing developers to share ideas.