Keymap Survey

[MarcGuay]

Hey folks,

I thought it would be a good idea to solicit input on the keymaps (button configurations), as I've come across a couple of ugly ones recently and can only assume there are more on other players.

Please try and be as objective as possible ("I like it better that way" is not good enough) and don't compare Rockbox to the original firmware ("the Apple interface does this when I press this" is not good enough).  Examples of acceptable reasons are that the buttons interfere with functionality or are out of step with the rest of the interface.  Here are a few that I've come across:

Target: e200
Action: Skip directory
Current: Stop+Left/Right
Problem: Playback stops half of the time you attempt the combo.  This is probably left over from when the Stop button was the Menu button.
Proposed: Change to Select+Left/Right.  Other button combos already use the select button and it's harmless if you don't time it right.

Target: e200
Action: Bring up the recording menu from the recording screen
Current: Down
Problem: Although the recording menu is not technically a context menu, in every other case the way to bring up the menu which deals specifically with your current location (fancy way to say "context"), is a long press of Select. 
Proposed: Change to Long-Select.

Target: Gigabeat F
Action: Delete bookmark from the recent bookmarks screen
Current: A button
Problem: The A button is used in the rest of the interface to bring you to the WPS.
Proposed: Unsure, don't own the target.

--

P.S. I would prefer if this didn't expand into a discussion on a total rework of the interface - please keep your suggestions specific.  The goal is simply to tighten them up for the 3.0 release, not to start something entirely new.

P.P.S.  As I understand it, the Sansa c200 keymap is full of problems and worthy of it's own flyspray task.  Please comment here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8824.

P.P.P.S.  No guarantees that anything will change.

[JdGordon]

Target: e200
Action: Skip directory
Current: Stop+Left/Right
Problem: Playback stops half of the time you attempt the combo.  This is probably left over from when the Stop button was the Menu button.
Proposed: Change to Select+Left/Right.  Other button combos already use the select button and it's harmless if you don't time it right.

yeah, i agree.. It always feels wierd pressing "stop" to do that action

Target: e200
Action: Bring up the recording menu from the recording screen
Current: Down
Problem: Although the recording menu is not technically a context menu, in every other case the way to bring up the menu which deals specifically with your current location (fancy way to say "context"), is a long press of Select. 
Proposed: Change to Long-Select.

doesnt make much difference, but yeah I guess its logical

[robin0800]

Sansa C200

Rec + Play
 If there is an audio file playing, returns to the While Playing Screen (WPS) without stopping playback

and this

Rec + Left or Rec + Right
 Move the line cursor within the text line
 

I don't like this as it seems to me any short press on Rec starts recording

Edit

Actually I Think this is a bug In the WPS it takes a long press on REC to start recording but any other screen starts on a shot press if some one can confirm i will post a bug report.

[MarcGuay]

Like I said, the c200 is riddled with issues, and the flyspray task may be a better place to post your comments/suggestions.  Unless the people working on that (pixelma?) want to gather ideas here as well.

[soap]

Target: e200
Action: Skip directory
Current: Stop+Left/Right
Problem: Playback stops half of the time you attempt the combo.  This is probably left over from when the Stop button was the Menu button.
Proposed: Change to Select+Left/Right.  Other button combos already use the select button and it's harmless if you don't time it right.

Soap Proposed:  Keep Short Next + Long Next and Short Prev + Long Prev like the iPods which have a very similar physical key layout.  The manual says this works (I haven't tried, should charge up my e200)

[JdGordon]

yes that works for all targets, but its nice tp have an actual combo for each target also... Also, its used for the a/b mode and short/long doesnt work there

[pondlife]

As I posted on pixelma's task..

When I used the c200 under Rockbox (as is), I found it unintuitive, whereas I picked up the Gigabeat easily and it felt very comfortable.

I always think of the keymapping to be a set of physical buttons (varying by device) mapped to a set of logical buttons (UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, SELECT, PLAY, STOP, MENU and REC). My expectation when I first ran Rockbox on c200 was for the following mapping:

UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT - up/down/left/right
SELECT - centre
STOP - power
REC - record

Assuming vol up/down are dedicated to that function, we run out of buttons and have to double-up.
MENU - down (when not in a list)
PLAY - up (when not in a list)
(The main downside of this is the loss of the ability to PLAY directly from a menu.)

Alternatively, if vol up/down are free for reassignment:
MENU - volume down
PLAY - volume up
Personally, this would be my preference.

(Note regarding above: Capitals for logical buttons, lower case for physical.)

Other functions come out of this assignment naturally, if you compare with the H300 mapping - e.g. LONG SELECT = context menu

The H300 keymap seems largely consistent, and I'm used to it, so I use that as a starting point, but I'm open to any other target being used, as long as it's equally consistent. 

pondlife

[Multiplex]

The H300 keymap seems largely consistent, and I'm used to it, so I use that as a starting point, but I'm open to any other target being used, as long as it's equally consistent. 

The only niggle is the hold record while plugging in the USB for charging - you end up in the recording screen, I started trying to look at this - various things like a config option (always charge, always connect, prompt) or just changing the button, but it got too big and life got in the way...

Now I also have a C200 and the select for this feature seems very natural.

[Llorean]

Hasn't the H300 keymap already been changed so that holding record is no longer the key you use?

[pondlife]

Yes, it's MENU (i.e. A-B on H300) now which works fine (albeit pushing you into the quick screen).  Personally, I'd probably prefer HOLD (another logical button I forgot), but it's not a biggie.

Anyway, back on-topic, it doesn't have to be H300-based, but logical consistency across targets would seem a good idea.  There is an argument that this is only relevant for users who have multiple devices, but I think a good/consistent keymap on any one target should be reusable elsewhere.  The only good argument I've heard against this is that it might occasionaly mean ignoring/contradicting the physical labels on some buttons (e.g. c200 where the power button is also labelled "menu"), but hopefully this can be minimised.

pondlife

[Llorean]

Hold makes it far too easy for accidental behaviour. We'll just get people filing bug reports that USB won't connect all the time, because sometimes they leave hold on and don't notice.

It needs to be something explicit and difficult to do accidentally.

[MarcGuay]

Target: e200
Action: Bring up the recording menu from the recording screen
Current: Down
Problem: Although the recording menu is not technically a context menu, in every other case the way to bring up the menu which deals specifically with your current location (fancy way to say "context"), is a long press of Select. 
Proposed: Change to Long-Select.

I committed this change.  The down button now does nothing, which might be a little strange and perhaps it should have been left as it was.  I can't decide which is worse, having 2 buttons do the same thing or having 1 do nothing. 

Target: e200
Action: Skip directory
Current: Stop+Left/Right
Problem: Playback stops half of the time you attempt the combo.  This is probably left over from when the Stop button was the Menu button.
Proposed: Change to Select+Left/Right.  Other button combos already use the select button and it's harmless if you don't time it right.

This one is a little more complicated than I thought because there are 3 key combos needed for the A-B behavior (set point A, set point B, and reset AB points), which shares keynames with the SkipDir functions and SELECT+UP and SELECT+DOWN are both taken already (pitchscreen and id3 screen shortcuts).  I suppose one of those could be sacrificed to the cause but I'm unsure.

[oayz]

copied from my post at:

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8824

OK, so after 1 month of playing with C240 let me suggest this:

In WPS mode:

POWER = stop and go to browser mode (long POWER is still OFF)
SELECT (short) = main menu
SELECT (long) = context menu
REC (short) anything but recording
REC (long) = recording mode (further short REC start/stop recording)

In menu mode:

REC (short) = pause/resume (we can do the same in WPS mode for consistency)

In virtual keyboard mode:

UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT = up/down/left/right on the keyboard
REC + UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT = up/down/left/right in the text (auto-repeat?)
SELECT = select current character (on release of the button)
LONG SELECT = change keyboard layout (international etc.)
REC + SELECT = backspace
SELECT + REC = delete the whole line (current char is inserted but than whole line is deleted)
MENU = exit and save
REC + MENU = exit without saving

Also having up/dn/left/right/PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Backspace/Save/Exit virtual buttons on keyboard would be nice.

Keep VOLUME = volume is all modes! Having a (consistent) way to pause/resume in all modes would also be nice.
Basically suggestion is to make things stradardiriazed:
- up/dn/left/right for navigation
- REC as a modifier (similar to ALT or CTRL on PC)
- short press for main function, long press for similar secondary one

We can also look into using double clicks where appropriate.

I would like to suggest we organize all our suggestions as a table - functions as a first column and proposed key assignments as columns 2..n and let people to provide feedback and vote on best layout.

BTW, I was already told once that custom key assignment won't be supported. Why not? It looks much simplier than WPS (function, 1st key, 2nd key, long/short modifier). Let programmers to focus on coding; let us monkey around with keys and post "layouts" as a simple text files. Just imagine instead of WPS we have to discuss best look and feel in the forum.

[ghen]

Something that has annoyed me on ipodvideo in several games, eg. jewels:

rewind/menu/forward/play act as left/up/right/down, respectively.  Makes perfect sense.  But at the same time, scroll up/scroll down also act as left/right.  This often interferes finger movement eg. from right to up, while not lifting your finger from the button wheel completely, hence you're accidentally scrolling up thus going left.

The same is true for rockblox and other games with "arrow keys" control.

Could the scrolling be disabled completely while the four buttons act as arrow keys?

I could file a bug for this, probably even submit patches, but I'd first like to know how other people think about it.