Can I install Rockbox without "Initialising" a via iTunes?

[Llorean]

A warranty isn't about logic. It's about a list of specific things that you cannot do, or Apple will withhold support. It is effectively a contract between you and the hardware provider in which they say "We will fix your product for this period of time, so long as you don't do anything that we've decided greatly increases the chance of it failing." In *some* regions there are consumer protection laws that make such contracts invalid in the case of truly faulty hardware, but it varies from region.

In many cases, altering the firmware on an embedded device can be considered a damaging act. Apple can make the claim that Rockbox used the hardware outside of its tolerances, and this caused the damage rather than a real hardware fault. While this is almost certainly untrue, you cannot effectively prove this in most cases. Basically, companies do not treat firmware in embedded devices the same as hardware, and almost universally forbid you from running your own code if you wish to continue warranty coverage. Since you voluntarily opt out of the warranty by installing Rockbox (nobody makes you run Rockbox, and it's your responsibility to know your warranty terms) they're probably not going to listen much if you try to argue the point without a lawyer backing you up.

So yes, while logically you should be able to simply remove Rockbox, in most, if not all, cases the mere act of installing it makes your warranty contract vanish into wispy vapor, never to be honored again.

I really wish you'd stop trying to compare it to PCs. It is not the same situation. PCs don't have restrictions in place to prevent you from installing new software, they're explicitly designed so that you can install a new operating system. It's an entirely different field of debate for embedded devices. I can almost guarantee that Dell would try to deny you warranty service if you showed up with a failing Dell Jukebox with alternative firmware on it.

[AlexP]

Llorean said what I wanted to say!

I'm pretty sure here in the EU (no idea about the States), that there is consumer protection legislation that would override unreasonable warranty terms.  However what is unreasonable or not would be up to the courts.

As for the PC comparison, I think it is more akin to replacing the firmware on your DVD drive to make it region free (which again may or may not be legal in itself (ignoring warranties) depending on where in the world you live), but that too is a non too perfect comparison.

[Llorean]

Exactly. I'm pretty sure in the USA it varies on a state to state basis.

In either case though, you're probably going to have to prove that the hardware was actually faulty, and that the problems could not have been caused by Rockbox using the hardware incorrectly. Once you've installed a custom firmware, it's quite possible to overheat a processor or do other nasty things that cause a device to start failing, and it's quite hard to prove that you never installed a version of Rockbox that abused the device.

It's like those "warranty void if broken" stickers on hardware. Once you've torn that sticker, they "know" you've been inside, and you can't really prove you didn't tamper with something you shouldn't have. Well, most warranties have a "void if you tampered with the firmware" clause, because you can cause hardware damage that way, and the only way you can effectively prove you haven't is by never having tampered at all (which i suppose you can't actually prove either, but that seems oddly irrelevant to them).

[soap]

Rockbox is much more like using a custom BIOS and operating system than just a simple OS swap.  Rockbox initializes the hardware, and sets voltage levels just like a BIOS.  Setting voltage levels wrong can damage hardware.  When the iPod builds were achieving 50% of Apple firmware runtime this was surely causing more wear-and-tear on the battery than Apple intended in their warranty calculations.

The hardware manufactures are fully justified in refusing to repair their devices which have been running a custom firmware.

[Hillshum]

Hmm... this is a bit  off the iTunes topic

[ImagoX]

  Just buy the unit with a credit card.  If the warranty is not honored you can still have the credit card company cover you.  This is NOT outside the credit card company coverage - for example, my wife had the credit card company replace a cell phone dropped into a toilet by accident and they specifically told her that she was covered - they use it as an inducement to use their service t pay for items, and i think it's a great thing.

  Here, I am, of course, only referring to ACTUAL warranty claims for hardware-related issues (bad headphone jack, cable port or HDD failure, etc.) and not some weird file issue caused by installation of the Rockbox OS.  It seems to me that the OP was very clear that he's aware fo the risks that installing a non-OEM OS entails and is not trying to make a case for invalidating them.  But I do agree that if it's a HARDWARE issue that the manufacturer should cover it.  Of course, in the immortal words of Dennis Miller:

  "That's just my opinion: I may be wrong."

  Best of luck with Rockbox!  I've used it for YEARS on my iRiver without a single flaw, and now that that player is finally starting to get flaky (after several thousand hours of playback the headphone jack is starting to fail) I just put it on a iPod - so far no issues! 

  PS - you still may want to load iTunes on your PC...  Video playback, for example, is better using the original OS or so I hear, and with many videos now available for FREE download via iTunes (TV show reruns etc), I'm thinking that I'll likely install it on my PC as well.  This would help you with your question about having to register via iTunes or not as well...

[AlexP]

  Just buy the unit with a credit card.  If the warranty is not honored you can still have the credit card company cover you.  This is NOT outside the credit card company coverage - for example, my wife had the credit card company replace a cell phone dropped into a toilet by accident and they specifically told her that she was covered - they use it as an inducement to use their service t pay for items, and i think it's a great thing.

You may want to be aware that this is very likely to be different depending on what country you live in, and on what company you use within that country.  I'm assuming from your spelling you are in the US, this may be very different elsewhere.

[ImagoX]

  Just buy the unit with a credit card.  If the warranty is not honored you can still have the credit card company cover you.  This is NOT outside the credit card company coverage - for example, my wife had the credit card company replace a cell phone dropped into a toilet by accident and they specifically told her that she was covered - they use it as an inducement to use their service t pay for items, and i think it's a great thing.

You may want to be aware that this is very likely to be different depending on what country you live in, and on what company you use within that country.  I'm assuming from your spelling you are in the US, this may be very different elsewhere.

  True enough - always check with the credit card issuer before believing what some stranger on the web says.