Installation / Removal > Apple - Installation/Removal

Can I install Rockbox without "Initialising" a via iTunes?

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Llorean:
A warranty isn't about logic. It's about a list of specific things that you cannot do, or Apple will withhold support. It is effectively a contract between you and the hardware provider in which they say "We will fix your product for this period of time, so long as you don't do anything that we've decided greatly increases the chance of it failing." In *some* regions there are consumer protection laws that make such contracts invalid in the case of truly faulty hardware, but it varies from region.

In many cases, altering the firmware on an embedded device can be considered a damaging act. Apple can make the claim that Rockbox used the hardware outside of its tolerances, and this caused the damage rather than a real hardware fault. While this is almost certainly untrue, you cannot effectively prove this in most cases. Basically, companies do not treat firmware in embedded devices the same as hardware, and almost universally forbid you from running your own code if you wish to continue warranty coverage. Since you voluntarily opt out of the warranty by installing Rockbox (nobody makes you run Rockbox, and it's your responsibility to know your warranty terms) they're probably not going to listen much if you try to argue the point without a lawyer backing you up.

So yes, while logically you should be able to simply remove Rockbox, in most, if not all, cases the mere act of installing it makes your warranty contract vanish into wispy vapor, never to be honored again.

I really wish you'd stop trying to compare it to PCs. It is not the same situation. PCs don't have restrictions in place to prevent you from installing new software, they're explicitly designed so that you can install a new operating system. It's an entirely different field of debate for embedded devices. I can almost guarantee that Dell would try to deny you warranty service if you showed up with a failing Dell Jukebox with alternative firmware on it.

AlexP:
Llorean said what I wanted to say!

I'm pretty sure here in the EU (no idea about the States), that there is consumer protection legislation that would override unreasonable warranty terms.  However what is unreasonable or not would be up to the courts.

As for the PC comparison, I think it is more akin to replacing the firmware on your DVD drive to make it region free (which again may or may not be legal in itself (ignoring warranties) depending on where in the world you live), but that too is a non too perfect comparison.

Llorean:
Exactly. I'm pretty sure in the USA it varies on a state to state basis.

In either case though, you're probably going to have to prove that the hardware was actually faulty, and that the problems could not have been caused by Rockbox using the hardware incorrectly. Once you've installed a custom firmware, it's quite possible to overheat a processor or do other nasty things that cause a device to start failing, and it's quite hard to prove that you never installed a version of Rockbox that abused the device.

It's like those "warranty void if broken" stickers on hardware. Once you've torn that sticker, they "know" you've been inside, and you can't really prove you didn't tamper with something you shouldn't have. Well, most warranties have a "void if you tampered with the firmware" clause, because you can cause hardware damage that way, and the only way you can effectively prove you haven't is by never having tampered at all (which i suppose you can't actually prove either, but that seems oddly irrelevant to them).

soap:
Rockbox is much more like using a custom BIOS and operating system than just a simple OS swap.  Rockbox initializes the hardware, and sets voltage levels just like a BIOS.  Setting voltage levels wrong can damage hardware.  When the iPod builds were achieving 50% of Apple firmware runtime this was surely causing more wear-and-tear on the battery than Apple intended in their warranty calculations.

The hardware manufactures are fully justified in refusing to repair their devices which have been running a custom firmware.

Hillshum:
Hmm... this is a bit  off the iTunes topic :D

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