Previously deleted files still remain

[studente]

Hello Guys,

I'm new here, so a big hello to everybody

I'm on 1gb Ipod nano , using rockbox r15981-071230. I was used to copying music to my ip through Itunes, so, as you know - I added some folders to the library and then to my already booted ipod (draging entire folders). As to deleting - I selected the files i want to delete and then used "the delete" function in iTunes.
I noticed, as I was deleting my folders adding new ones, these older still remained as  empty "ghost folders", so I had a little look at he manual and found out deleting the database files in ".rockbox" folder was a good way to recreate it so I did.
Now, the database is fine, and "the ghosts" disappeared, but I surprisingly found some files that have already been deleted are still in my db and contain playable music.
I'm ok with them now, but when I try to play around with the database they probably still be there..
They must be somewhere on ipod, in one of the folders, but not in the one I'am holding my music.
Can anyone suggest me a solution or link me a good how-to please?

[AlexP]

Try running the plugin DiskTidy.  You may have the files in the hidden recycle bin folder, and disk tidy will remove them.  You can check where the file actually is by playing it, then using the context menu to look at the playlist.

[studente]

quote]Try running the plugin DiskTidy.  You may have the files in the hidden recycle bin folder, and disk tidy will remove them.  You can check where the file actually is by playing it, then using the context menu to look at the playlist.[/quote]


Good to know After I used the plugin it cleaned up 16 files, the empty folders are still there, though.
I thought it could be Itunes to cause this, so I used finder (on OSX) and just dragged and dropped some folders in Ipd window and eliminated some by moving their folders to the trash icon..but there are still  those empty ones in my database (After the restart).
So, here comes the question - Is it common, these folders remain? and is one supposed to get rid of  them manually?

[Febs]

After I used the plugin it cleaned up 16 files, the empty folders are still there, though.
I thought it could be Itunes to cause this, so I used finder (on OSX) and just dragged and dropped some folders in Ipd window and eliminated some by moving their folders to the trash icon..but there are still  those empty ones in my database (After the restart).
So, here comes the question - Is it common, these folders remain? and is one supposed to get rid of  them manually?

I'm confused by your question.  The database does not show "folders."  It shows metadata information like title, artist, album and genre.  The file browser, on the other hand, does show folders.  

So are you saying that empty folders remain when you are using the file browser to browse?  If so, then you, you need to delete these manually.  Rockbox does not remove empty folders.  

Or are you saying that there are entries in the database for items that you have deleted?  If so, you need to update the database.

[studente]

I'm confused by your question.  The database does not show "folders."  It shows metadata information like title, artist, album and genre.  The file browser, on the other hand, does show folders.  

Ah...you're right, that's true. It's a metadata information that remains after deleting the entire folder (seen so in the file manager).

I'm confused by your question.  The database does not show "folders."  It shows metadata information like title, artist, album and genre.  The file browser, on the other hand, does show folders.  

No, this has nothing to do with the file browser.

Or are you saying that there are entries in the database for items that you have deleted?  If so, you need to update the database.

Let me make one thing clear please - I created the db by dragging whole folders to my Ipod content, so, maybe I shoud have done this with music files only, not folders? Can't be?

[GodEater]

Let me make one thing clear please - I created the db by dragging whole folders to my Ipod content, so, maybe I shoud have done this with music files only, not folders? Can't be?

The folders you've dragged contain no meta data as they're not files. Therefore information for them is not found in the database. What I'm saying here is that it doesn't matter whether you've copied music files individually or in folders - it makes no difference to the database.

[studente]

The folders you've dragged contain no meta data as they're not files. Therefore information for them is not found in the database.

What do you mean by °information not found in the database", I agree, the folders don't contain any recognizable data, but are displayed correctly in the db, along those empty one

What I''m saying here is that it doesn't matter whether you've copied music files individually or in folders - it makes no difference to the database.

But you've just said the folders can't be recognized as containing data...I'am confused a bit

[Llorean]

The database is ONLY a database of Metadata. Folders do not have Metadata, so they do not show up in the database. It is constructed entirely from tags on files.

You need to differentiate between "metadata" and "data". The folder itself contains no metadata. The folder MIGHT contain files (data), and those files might contain metadata. But the folder itself doesn't matter at all, and is ignored by the database.

[GodEater]

but are displayed correctly in the db, along those empty one

No they're not.

What you're seeing in the database are not "folders" they are views of files which contain the same metadata.

For example :

If I have a folder of music on my PC called "Faith No More", and all the music files therein contain the metadata tag for Artist which is set to "Faith No More" as well. I then copy that folder and all its content to my Rockboxed DAP, and initialise the database. Then the database will group all those files together in something which looks like a folder - but isn't. It's just grouped all the files with that artist tag together under one Artist heading. It has not taken the name from the folder on the PC, or on the Rockboxed device's disk.

If however the folder were called "Something entirely different", but still just contained those files all by "Faith No More", and I repeated the copy exercise to my DAP - the database would still only contain something which appears to be a folder called "Faith No More" under Artists - there would be no trace of anything called "Something entirely different", since the database didn't care what folder the files were in when it indexed them.

Does that help explain it ?

[Chronon]

I was used to copying music to my ip through Itunes, so, as you know - I added some folders to the library and then to my already booted ipod (draging entire folders). As to deleting - I selected the files i want to delete and then used "the delete" function in iTunes.

It sounds very much like you are synching via iTunes.  In this case iTunes loads the files with random names into folders such as /iPod_Control/Music/F01/.  So I'm confused by all of this discussion about folders.  Did folders containing files get explicitly written to the iPod or did you use iTunes to synch your music?

[studente]

Does that help explain it ?

Yes it does. Now it's just clear to me.

Did folders containing files get explicitly written to the iPod or did you use iTunes to synch your music?

No, I didn't use iTunes this time, I've written the files to the Ipod.

As (thanks to you) I understand, we've got something to do with a "broken" metadata then, which once deleted saves some information on ipod, right?

[studente]

Problem Resolved!!

I've found out, it's enough to rebuild the databse every time you add a new metadata or folder, otherwise empty information still accumulates.

Thanks for your help

P.S Just in case anyone of you figured out another solution, feel free to post it here.

[MarcGuay]

Try turning on "Auto Update" in the database menu.  It'll do this for you when you turn it on.



and here's a quote from the wikipedia entry for ID3 tags:

ID3 is a metadata container most often used in conjunction with the MP3 audio file format. It allows information such as the title, artist, album, track number, or other information about the file to be stored in the file itself.

[zajacattack]

Try turning on "Auto Update" in the database menu.  It'll do this for you when you turn it on.

I wouldn't recommend that. It will spin up the disk on every start-up then and use the battery more. Especially since it is only necessary to re-initialize or update when you add or remove files.

[studente]

I wouldn't recommend that. It will spin up the disk on every start-up then and use the battery more. Especially since it is only necessary to re-initialize or update when you add or remove files.

Thanks for advice. Did you mean reupdating the db on every metadata change is harmfull to the Ipod drive ?

What would you recommend then?