Opinions of User-friendliness in rockbox

[AlexP]

There's a "browse config files" option for that. You really shouldn't browse into the .rockbox folder ever.

You really shouldn't? Apple thinks you really shouldn't install alternative firmware on their players. Music companies think you really shouldn't rip CDs you purchased and listen to them on an MP3 player.

Why does opening rockbox.ipod load that file if you shouldn't be in .rockbox in the first place?

Some of the most novel uses for things have come about by doing what the creator didn't want you to do.

I actually have no idea what you are getting at here.  Are you thinking you might find some revolutionary new way to use rockbox if you browse into /.rockbox?  When do you open rockbox.ipod?  It is loaded on boot, but so?  Are you suggesting we ought not access the files in /.rockbox to load rockbox because we recommend users don't muck about in there?  If you want to browse /.rockbox feel free, but it shouldn't ever be necessary.  When you rip a CD you gain additional use from your music.  I can't see how that applies to browsing /.rockbox.

[nls]

IMHO arguing about default settings is quite pointless since a) settings are easy to change b) it's just a matter of opinion so people will never agree.

About the "show files" default in particular, I remember it has been discussed before and the reason that it now defaults to "Supported" is that user were complaining that they saw the .rockbox dir among other things while browsing...

Now where are those revolutionary UI ideas?  

[cool_walking_]

I actually have no idea what you are getting at here.

I went off on a psychotic tangent there... I just don't like people telling me what to do, and the wording "you shouldn't" annoyed me.  I know I perverted what Llorean actually meant. Sorry Llorean.

Are you thinking you might find some revolutionary new way to use rockbox if you browse into /.rockbox?

Well you never know.

When do you open rockbox.ipod?

Sorry, maybe bad wording. I mean when you "play" a rockbox.ipod file, how it loads that firmware.

If you want to browse /.rockbox feel free, but it shouldn't ever be necessary.

I have done so to fix broken WPSes and load different builds without having to connect to a PC.

IMHO arguing about default settings is quite pointless since a) settings are easy to change b) it's just a matter of opinion so people will never agree.

Yes, but sane defaults should be set according to the principle of least astonishment. Of course you can't please everyone, but for every option there is probably a majority that would be least astonished by a certain default.

About the "show files" default in particular, I remember it has been discussed before and the reason that it now defaults to "Supported" is that user were complaining that they saw the .rockbox dir among other things while browsing...

Ah...

[Llorean]

Because you can place alternative .ipod files (linux.ipod? diskmode.ipod? Apple_os.ipod?) that could be loaded, and not have to be in the .rockbox folder. If you think there are "novel uses" for going into the Rockbox folder, SAY them. Don't hint that they're there. You've not said anything that suggests that. (As a note, it takes TWO SECONDS to switch the file view setting, less if you're not slow. Fixing WPSes is an 'advanced' subject anyway, why should the default be set to the advantage of advanced users who surely know how to change it anyway? Loading an alternative firmware, on the other hand, doesn't require entering .rockbox anyway).

I think it's *more* confusing to a user to have a bunch of files visible, and not know which ones they can simply click on to have them work, and which ones will do nothing at all.

And ".rockbox" is a hidden folder anyway. With the previous suggestion of "show all files, but keep hidden folders hidden" it would still be gone.

It's not more OS than application. It's FIRMWARE. These are not multipurpose computers, they're MP3 players, and Rockbox's primary job, and the one that will always determine its official development path, is Audio (and possibly in the future Media) Player.

This whole thread is supposed to be about USER FRIENDLINESS. Which is more user friendly: A list of files with no clue on which you can click, and which you can't, several pages long, containing a mix of useful files and files that you can't do anything with, or a shorter list of files, where every visible file is one that the device in your hand actually knows what to do with, while all the *unusable* files are a mere two seconds of interaction away?

[gratt]

Setting a permanent backdrop requires the user to enter /.rockbox/backdrops.
This dependany should be removed to allow a user to keep backdrops anywhere.
GRaTT

[Llorean]

Backdrops can also be managed by way of theme files for the backdrop image. So entering that folder is not required if a player is properly set up.

[saratoga]

Setting a permanent backdrop requires the user to enter /.rockbox/backdrops.

No, I think they can be located anywhere the theme file points to, though obviously the standard place is .rockbox/backdrops.  

[Llorean]

He means that if they aren't in the "proper" place, they won't save across reboots (or at least didn't used to). But just because the .bmp image needs to be in a specific place does not mean you need to browse in there, since .cfg files exist.

[cool_walking_]

<snipped for boredom and what I was talking about was stupid and unrelating to anything>

This whole thread is supposed to be about USER FRIENDLINESS. Which is more user friendly: A list of files with no clue on which you can click, and which you can't, several pages long, containing a mix of useful files and files that you can't do anything with, or a shorter list of files, where every visible file is one that the device in your hand actually knows what to do with, while all the *unusable* files are a mere two seconds of interaction away?

It doesn't affect me, since as said, the setting can be changed in 2 seconds. I am just saying that to me, showing all files by default is more user-friendly since I see Rockbox as an OS. If more people feel otherwise, then sure, leave it as is.

EDIT: Gah, HTML...

[Llorean]

Rockbox isn't a multi-purpose OS though. It's a music player firmware. Besides hiding non-media files, are there other ways we could encourage people to notice that that's the purpose of it? Maybe if people realized that's a major project goal, we'd have to reject less feature requests that are out of the scope in a significant way.

[Karce]

I'd have to agree with those who say that re-structuring the settings in the menu would be the major thing.

It's fairly user friendly for my player, once you realize how to manipulate the multi use buttons.

Documenting them a bit more clearly (a specific section for the types of menus, i had to search for a while in the manual to figure it out, but then again, I was already used to a certain key designation before it was changed as well) would be helpful

[pondlife]

There's one change I'd like to see in the Rockbox UI.

From the WPS, when I press STOP or SELECT, I rely on the "Follow Playlist" option to take me to a sensible place in the browser, but this cannot work with the database, and it seems to be a bit buggy/inconsistent anyway.

All I really want is to return to the Playlist Viewer. Whilst I can go into the context menu and View Current Playlist, this UI is rather well-hidden for such a fundamental feature.

I'm not entirely sure how this should best be integrated into the menu/screen structure so as to preserve the existing functionality, but I'd hope that the current idea that STOP/SELECT returns to the previous (non-playing) screen could be maintained with the "Follow Playlist" option only used to mandate that these buttons return to the playlist view instead instead of mucking about with browser selections (should be simpler).

Apologies for these unstructured, early morning thoughts!  Discuss.

pondlife

[Llorean]

The reason "Follow Playlist" takes you to the browser is so that you can quickly queue songs from the same album (or delete a song realizing you didn't want it on the player). Neither of these can readily be done from the Playlist list.

One possibility though, could be to have a "Return Screen" option, with choices "Playlist Viewer" "Home" (main menu?), "Current File" and "Don't change" (going back to wherever you invoked the WPS from).

[pondlife]

A "Browse to file" option in the playlist viewer context menu would be useful anyways, and perhaps a "Delete file" too (alongside the existing "Remove from playlist").

Database users can easily use the "Same album as..." selection.

I like the idea of replacing "Follow Playlist" with the "Return Screen" option though. I think it's clearer as well as more flexible.

pondlife

[Bagder]

I like the idea of replacing "Follow Playlist" with the "Return Screen" option though. I think it's clearer as well as more flexible.

I think you're confusing subjects.

If I start playing a playlist in the file tree, the file tree is the "return screen" but the "follow playlist" option tells which particular directory it should show when it returns there.