Opinions of User-friendliness in rockbox

[zajacattack]

Now, this is a topic for throwing ideas around for a slight (perhaps bigger?) revamp of rockbox in favor of user-functionality:
First off, the Files menu: I have no trouble, but I know many users have problems with hidden files, perhaps someway to make turning them on easier? Suggestions?

[AlexP]

So the quick menu (one button press on targets I have experience with) isn't quick enough?  I'm really struggling to think how you would make it easier.

[MarcGuay]

Perhaps the question should be rephrased to "How can people be forced to read the manual?", but an option for this might be to default the setting to "view all files" if it isn't already.  Of course that might just lead to more people asking "How do I hide the files I can't use?"...

The only thing about the user interface I think could use a looking-over is the organization of the settings menus; sometimes I feel like they're a little awkward or go too deep, but given the number of options it's hard to keep that aspect simple.  

I get the impression that most people's confusion doesn't lie so much with the interface but with the installation process, navigating the website (a.k.a. having the necessary information presented to them before the forums, IRC, mailing list, etc), and understanding the terminology.

[Llorean]

I've got a full printout of most/all of the options menus, I want to reorganize them, but it's not a small project. Maybe one day I'll post a patch that'll piss off hundreds of users because I put the wrong options high up, much like the keymap changes.

I'm curious the reasoning behind "All" being a possible default for file view. Why would you need to see files you can't use?

[MarcGuay]

I've got a full printout of most/all of the options menus, I want to reorganize them, but it's not a small project. Maybe one day I'll post a patch that'll piss off hundreds of users because I put the wrong options high up, much like the keymap changes.

I can tell your really anxious to deal with the blowback from that one...

I'm curious the reasoning behind "All" being a possible default for file view. Why would you need to see files you can't use?

I was really just responding to Zajac saying that a lot of people have asked "Where's the music folder that the Sansa firmware insists on hiding?".   Like I said, it would probably just redirect the question somewhere else, the real solution is in having people understand the quirks of each target and dealing with them.  

But there might be something to defaulting to "all" now that I think about it... There are files in the .rockbox folder that can be used (I have a backup config.cfg file that I often revert to) and that's only shown if it's set to "all"...  I guess the question on the table here, though, is "Would it make it more user-friendly?", and to that, I can't answer with confidence either way.

[Llorean]

There's a "browse config files" option for that. You really shouldn't browse into the .rockbox folder ever.

[zajacattack]

So, why not separate not showing hidden files from showing supported types? Something like:
-File View
--Show files
---All
---Supported
---Music
---Playlists
---Hidden
----Show
----Hide

Then, the default could be show supported file types and show hidden files.

[Llorean]

The ONLY player that anyone even might want to see hidden files regularly is the e200 and c200, and even on that it only matters until the USB stack is working. Any other player, if they want to see the files they can just keep the folder unhidden.

I don't see hacking in extra pointless features as an alternative to "wait until the right solution is done".

[MarcGuay]

There's a "browse config files" option for that. You really shouldn't browse into the .rockbox folder ever.

You sunk my battleship!  (More like a tugboat, but anyway).

[cool_walking_]

I think showing all files (as opposed to just supported files) by default is a good idea.  It's like that stupid "hide file extensions for known types" option in Windows.  I didn't ask to have information taken away, why is it missing?  Of course, hidden files are different, since you did actually ask for them to be hidden.

[Llorean]

The files are hidden because Rockbox is an APPLICATION as well as a firmware. By default, when you tell a word processor to open a file, does it show all files, or just files it knows what to do with?

[zajacattack]

It should show all files because you can often open a file with a different extension than custom dictates, as long as it is in the right format.

[Llorean]

Rockbox is designed as a media player. Are there any audio format extensions we've forgotten about, or are you talking about opening strange text files in the text editor?

It's very easy to add any custom formats you want to the viewers.config. And switching to "All" from "Supported" takes less than two seconds.

[MarcGuay]

Next?  

I think the Database, and the tagnavi_custom file in particular, could be discussed with more gusto.  A simpler way to customize the menu could be something to look into.

[cool_walking_]

There's a "browse config files" option for that. You really shouldn't browse into the .rockbox folder ever.

You really shouldn't? Apple thinks you really shouldn't install alternative firmware on their players. Music companies think you really shouldn't rip CDs you purchased and listen to them on an MP3 player.

Why does opening rockbox.ipod load that file if you shouldn't be in .rockbox in the first place?

Some of the most novel uses for things have come about by doing what the creator didn't want you to do.

The files are hidden because Rockbox is an APPLICATION as well as a firmware. By default, when you tell a word processor to open a file, does it show all files, or just files it knows what to do with?

Hrm... since Rockbox is the main interface to the player, I consider it more an OS than an application. I think since the "Files" section is the main interface to looking at the hard drive, it should actually show you everything that's there (at least by default).  Everyone _knows_ the database is an abstraction, so it's alright if not everything is shown, but the "Files" section is your main look at the hard drive.