Rockbox and Compact Flash

[help.me.spam.me@gmail.com]

I got a bit of a pickle here. I've converted my iPod to CF. When I use the A-Data CF everything works. I can dual boot, etc.
When I use the Transcend, I get the following error upon boot after the the Rockbox bootloader and the Rockbox build has been installed:

rockbox boot loader
version: 2.0
ipod version: 0xffffffff
ata: -80
no partition found

These are my installation steps:
1) Install CF
2) Connect to PC and have iTunes restore iPod
3) Extract daily iPod video build (30GB) to root of iPod
4) Run ipodpatcher; bootloader gets successfully installed
5) Reboot > Error

If I don't install the Rockbox bootloader, my CF iPod boots just fine and I can play music, etc.
The only difference that I can see between those two CF cards is the speed.
Is there a wizard out there who can help me with this?

Merci

[soap]

As I understand it, not all CF cards support the "TrueIDE" spec set.
I believe your problem is a result of using a card which does not have such support.
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MiniCF

[help.me.spam.me@gmail.com]

Well, I don't know enough about CF cards, but I would have assumed that if the card works with the original Apple firmware/bootloader then it should also work with Rockbox.
My second assumption would have been that all modern CF cards would support TrueIDE ... but I guess that's what happens, if you assume.
It makes an a** out of you and me.
 

Do you know how to identify "TrueIDE" cards?

[help.me.spam.me@gmail.com]

Hello -
I've recently converted my iPod Video to use Compact Flash cards. I had some success. The Apple firmware/bootloader worked on both cards, but only one of them worked with Rockbox.
I would be interested to learn from other folks about their successes. I am technical savy, but I am by no means an expert on CF card standards/tech specs.
My hope is that someone with a better technical background could name the specific specs to look for in a CF card that would make it compatible with Rockbox.
I haven't found much info on this forum or Wiki and I asked my question twice on the IRC. It was suggested that I should make some changes to the code. Well, I am not a C/C++ programmer.
Maybe I am presumptuous, but I would think that there are some other folks out there who are trying to convert older models?!
Anyways if you are in the same boat as me, then please post your findings here.

Thanks & Cheers  

This card worked both with the original Apple firmware/bootloader and Rockbox:

Brand      A-DATA
Model    SPEEDY CF 16GB
Type    Compact Flash (CF)
Tech Spec
Capacity    16GB
Speed    40X
Features    Conforms to Compact Flash Card specification standard
Fully compatible with PC Card ATA specification
Support for 8-bit or 16-bit host data transfers
Support PIO mode 4
Support Error Correcting Code (ECC) function to detect and correct errors.
Support In System Programming(ISP) function to load the firmware. Supports power down commands and sleep mode
Support Wear Leverage function to maximize data endurance.
Non-volatile storage(no battery required)
+5 Volts or +3.3 Volts operation.
MTBF > 1,000,000 hours
Durability:Minimum 10,000 insertion/removal cycles
Low weight
Noiseless
Low profile

This card only worked with the original Apple firmware/bootloader but NOT Rockbox:

Brand      Transcend
Model    TS16GCF133
Type    Compact Flash (CF)
Tech Spec
Capacity    16GB
Speed    133X
Features    CF Type I
Supports IDE PIO mode 6 and Ultra DMA mode 0-4
Fully complies with the new CF 4.0 standard
Hardware ECC (Error Correction Code)
ATA interface
Low power consumption
Multi-platform compatibility
RoHS Compliant

[Llorean]

Using Rockbox with hardware mods is not exactly a primary goal of the project. There's plenty to fix still when simply using the standard hardware.

I would suggest changing "Well, I am not a C/C++ programmer." to "Well, since I'm the only person into it, I'm looking for suggestions on books that I can learn from" if you're really serious about getting this resolved.

[AlexP]

How true it is I'm not sure, but I have seen bandied around that the important line in the first card is

Fully compatible with PC Card ATA specification

So I believe it needs to conform to the TrueATA spec to work with rockbox, although seeing as the OF is fine I assume you could fix that.

Edit:  I have merged your two identical topics.

[soap]

Until BigBambi merged your two threads I didn't know you had gotten Apple's firmware to boot.

[scharkalvin]

I have converted a Gigabeat player to CF by using an adapter card made for this purpose for iPods.  I'm using the A-Data 16GB CF that is reported to work with iPods.  It mostly seems to work, but I do sometimes get a checksum error from the rockbox boot loader, and then the device powers off.  If I try to power it up again right after this happens it usually will boot up into rockbox.  I still do get either a checksum error, a file not found error, or a disk read error from time to time while using rockbox.  

Changing the spin down time to 254 seconds (to try and prevent spindowns) seems to help (so maybe I can find in the code where this happens and remove the check for time to spin down, or add a "never" to the spin down time menu).

As CF cards get larger and cheaper they will become popular as replacements for failed disk drives in DMP devices such as iPods, Gigabeats, and iRivers.  (Not to mention that such conversions make the devices more rugged and draw less battery power.)  I think it would be a good idea to add conditional compilation hooks to the source code to optimize rockbox for such conversions.    Some means of activating this conditional on top of any device specific ones in the build script would be needed.  I would be interested in looking into this, but I'm not yet familiar enough with the source code to do this (any hints would be welcome).  

In addition to any timing and protocol differences between CF modules and HD's, parameters that are constantly updated to a disk file should be moved to ram where possible to keep the number of disk writes to a minimum (to keep from wearing out the CF).  This might mean losing the ability to remember where in a playlist, or a song the device was powered down in, unless this information is kept in an area on battery backed up ram that is not initialized during bootup.

[saratoga]

In addition to any timing and protocol differences between CF modules and HD's, parameters that are constantly updated to a disk file should be moved to ram where possible to keep the number of disk writes to a minimum (to keep from wearing out the CF).  This might mean losing the ability to remember where in a playlist, or a song the device was powered down in, unless this information is kept in an area on battery backed up ram that is not initialized during bootup.

Rockbox already takes great efforts to avoid using the disk since it uses so much battery power.  Theres probably a handful writes to the disk per hour.  The sun will burn out before you hit the write limit on that CF card.

[zajacattack]

The sun will burn out before you hit the write limit on that CF card.

Ha! Ha! Too bad the card manufacturers don't promise that!
So, out of curiosity, what would be the write limit on a CF card (and I know it's not a rockbox question, but I'm just wondering)?

[help.me.spam.me@gmail.com]

Llorean: I understand. Time, resources, other priorities, etc.
Although I don't believe I am the only person into this. The cost of CF cards has gone down and not everyone wants to "upgrade" to a Sansa.
I would welcome any further reading suggestions. Although my time and resources are limited as well. The least I hope this thread might accomplish is to identify the particular technical specifications to look for in a CF card before making a purchase.

BigBambi: That's a good suspect. I find this intersting as well, although maybe not mandatory:
"Support In System Programming(ISP) function to load the firmware. Supports power down commands and sleep mode"
BTW, love your Eddie "smiley".

Thanks for the feedback!

[scharkalvin]

I just saw this via google.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hardware-hacking/broken-ipod-5g-replaces-hard-drive-for-compact-flash-287700.php
looks like an adapter for the new Toshiba ribbon cable hard disks to CF.

[help.me.spam.me@gmail.com]

That was a prototype. This is the final product:
http://www.tarkan.info/20070905/tutorials/iflash-ipod-flash-adaptor/

For the iPod Mini there is:
http://geektechnique.org/projectlab/753/how-to-turn-your-ipod-mini-into-a-flash-based-ipod

... and by the same author:
http://geektechnique.org/projectlab/767/put-flash-memory-into-almost-any-ipod

I find Tarkan's product overpriced, but that's purely from a buyers perspective.

BTW, I did the iPod Mini mod and it worked fine. I used a Verbatim 2GB CF card. Unfortunately I don't know the specs, but it worked with Rockbox.

[scharkalvin]

Yeah, it IS expensive.  Maybe the HD connector is a hard to get item.

The geektechnique web pages are old news.

I used the A-data 16gb CF card in both an iPod mini and a Gigabeat with the Linux-Beginner adapter and it works well.  I do have some problems with the Gigabeat under Rockbox, every time I connect to the computer to download some files and disconnect the usb, I can't power down the player without using the battery switch as it gets locked into the usb disk mode.  This didn't happen with the HD. However, the files do seem to copy ok.  (also file transfer is s...l....o....w!)
Also I sometimes get a checksum error from the rockbox boot loader (though if I try again it will usually work fine.)  I compiled the firmware with the reset function commented out (as with the ipod mini as per the NANO conditional.)

When the A-data 32gb card price drops to around $100 (maybe by mid year?) I will probably upgrade to that.  

[help.me.spam.me@gmail.com]

Tarkan's board is very clean (soldering points) and fits snugly because of its design. It still makes  the high price point hard to explain, unless of course it is being manufactured in the UK and not China.
The posts from December 31st are relevant. It looks like there finally is a 2008 release date set.
Maybe his adapter will be less expensive.