Read this!

[zajacattack]

Thread locked. It's become abundantly clear that zajacattack merely wants to vent as can be seen by his complaints about people who actually were trying to be helpful, but apparently weren't helpful enough, and people who weren't psychic or capable of knowing all the information of the internet.

By locking this I also mean to say, in no uncertain terms, that nobody who has participated in this thread is to start another thread on the same subject. The rules are not going to change at this time, so any further discussion of it by anyone involved here is off-topic for these forums (because it can have no effect). That is final.

The rules can be brought up again at another time, if another person feels they can constructively offer ways in which the rules can continue to accomplish the goals we've stated for them, but in a more favourable (and most particularly: not less effective) way.

It is also apparent that Llorean has let his own personal beliefs and ideas get in the way of discussion and debate. Just because you don't believe my ideas were constructive doesn't give you the right to block my ideas from being voiced or considered.

I believe the only solution is to have a dedicated person who scans the forums all day and, when a question is asked that is in the manual, that person opens the manual, finds the answer, gets the link, and posts that link in the forum. This person should also be able to handle any repeat questions by finding the correct thread in the forum, and direct the poster there.

Also, when someone asks a non-rockbox related question our dedicated person should search the internet to find the best place to ask, and direct the person there with a link.  If there's time, our dedicated person should log into that forum, ask the question, and get the answer to save the original person's time.

As the one most passionate about this topic, zajacattack, I think nobody is better suited for the task than you.

For my part, I've been (and quit being) a moderator in forums with no clear rules, and I have to say I'm a bit jealous of the setup here. I'd have loved to be able to actually point at a clear Terms of Service agreement when someone got out of line.  "Out of line" is a bit stricter here than it is on other sites, but this isn't a social forum, it's a technical one, and more is expected from the users of a technical forum. It's just the way it goes.

Now, I realize that Yotto is being sarcastic. However, he does make a bit of a point. Why not have people assigned as helpers who direct people to the right places in the manual, direct them to correct forums, show people how to search effectively, etc.? While Yotto's actual suggestion is a bit unrealistic, his basic concept of people who can be helpers on the forums is a good one, since the mods seem to only care about the rules.

[Llorean]

I look forward to seeing you provide constructive help then. Nobody's ever stopped anyone from providing help, and you could've been doing it all this time.

I closed that thread with a clear warning that none of you are to open a new thread on this topic. The discussion is over. If you reply to this with anything other than something that approximately says "I'd be happy to try to help out by pointing people in the right direction", you will be banned for 72 hours. It's that simple. The argument was getting nowhere, and you apparently couldn't see that. It does not need to continue.

What gives me the right to close a thread, whether "blocking you" or not, is the fact that these forums are not a place where you're guaranteed the right to say anything you want, whenever you want. If I or one of the other moderators feel a thread is no longer constructive, we will close it. That thread was never constructive. I even re-opened it in the hope that it would become constructive, but it merely got worse.

I'm not banning you immediately because it seems there's a misunderstanding: You do not have a right to be heard. You have permission to use these forums for the purposes set forth in the guidelines. That permission can be revoked if you abuse the privilege. It will be revoked if you don't heed my warning on this subject. I'm in no mood to argue today, and no mood to see another long thread in which you clearly don't seem to get the point that several mods, volunteers, and normal members try to make to you.

[zajacattack]

Fine, if you don't wish to change the rules, then that's up to you. I still stand by my statement that the mods could be more helpful and less finicky about the rules. However, since many of the mods seem to only care about "violations of the TOS" and not about helping, then I sincerely hope that myself and others can work to actually help and not be on people's backs about the rules constantly.

[Llorean]

Nobody ever stopped you from being helpful. As long as you follow the rules while doing so, and don't encourage people to break them, nobody will prevent you from being helpful.

[LinusN]

I read the entire thread that was locked. I fail to see how we were *that* unhelpful. In all the examples you provided we actually did answer the question, or at least asked for more information, or informed the user that this is not a Rockbox related issue.

It is not our job to help users in this forum. I have a daytime job and work with Rockbox for the fun of it, on my spare time. I have absolutely no obligation to help *anyone* here, but I still do it as much as I can. If a user asks something that is not directly related to Rockbox, I often simply don't have the time to help him/her search the internet to find the answer.

This is not a helpdesk with a paid staff!

[Spanky]

It's really none of my business to get involved in this but you don't piss off moderators or even admins. This is here for enjoyment and if they wanted they could shut it down but they spend their good time doing this because (I believe) they enjoy it and enjoy this project. Nobody gets paid. Yea there's donations but I don't think it's enough so that they have money to play with at the end of the day. Nobody has to help here if they don't want to, especially when users like myself can't read through stuff they have already explained and make posts about it and crowd the forums. I think I'm pretty right on here.

[mikeage]

There's another option; you can start your own unofficial rockbox support forums, and moderate as you see fit. For that matter, provide you retain the original copyright and license, you can start your own fork of rockbox. If you think you can do better.... prove it!

[AutobahnSHO]

As with any internet forum, if you don't like the rules, mods, or members,

no one's forcing you to stay.

zajacattack, as a new member it's quite apparent that you disagree with the mods.
You started a thread to tell the mods they were wrong.
The mods disagreed and tried to explain their interpretation of the rules and intent for the forum.
You argued.
Mods were quite reasonable in answering your gripes.
You continued to gripe and argue.
Thread was locked.
You started another thread about the same subject.

Nice non-related title as bait to get readers, by the way.

[Febs]

As a matter of fact, the non-descriptive thread title is a direct and presumably deliberate violation of one of the rules that I take very seriously (and with good reason).  

zajacattack, no-one involved with this project is "assigned" to anything.  We volunteer.  If you think that this forum needs "helpers," then stop whining about the way the rules are enforced, and become a helper.  

Also, I find your comment that "the mods seem to only care about the rules" personally offensive.  I've spent many, many hours over the past several years writing the manual, writing and organizing FAQs, and helping users in this forum and while I welcome constructive criticism, that sort of statement is not at all constructive or accurate.  

This thread is closed.  If you start another, your posting privileges will be revoked.