Playlist insert order

[cc]

I was trying to work out the order tracks get put into playlists when you do inserts and I'm stuck - either I don't understand the rules or there are bugs.

I made 3 directories with 3 songs in each: dir A (songs 1-3), dir B (4-6) and dir C (7-9).

If from stopped I do: Insert on dir A, insert dir B, insert dir C, I end up with a playlist of:
 
  1 4 5 6 7 8 9 2 3

is that the desired behaviour? I was expecting 123456789. I guess what is happening is the first insert (from stopped) doesn't set the last insert position (last_insert_pos) to the end.

Similarly if I use Insert Last, like this (from stopped): Insert dir A, "Insert Last" dir B, insert dir C, I get:
 
 1 7 8 9 2 3 4 5 6
 
(again I expected 123456789)

Using insert next is the most confusing: Insert dir A, "Insert Next" dir B, insert dir C, gives:

 1 4 7 8 9 5 6 2 3

So the insert C files end up in the middle of the files added by the "insert next".  

(this is with r14913-070930 on an E200)

Any ideas?

[Llorean]

When you insert the first list, so that playback starts, the "insert point" is placed immediately after the now playing song.

When you "Insert last", the file is obviously placed "Last", the end of the playlist. This doesn't move the insert point, because there's never any need to move it to "Last" since the "Insert Last" function will always get you there. "Insert Next" inserts after the currently playing song. This *should* set the insert point to the last inserted song, but it sounds like that's failing. "Insert" just inserts at the insert point.

If you think about how the three interact, you should see that it offers a lot of flexibility, and will behave consistently assuming you know what they do. And I do believe the labels are consistent with what they do. The list with "Insert Next" then "Insert" should've been the same as your Insert-Insert list though, I believe, so it sounds like there is a small bug there.

Basically, the "Insert Point" should always be after the last Inserted or Insert Next-ed file.

[cc]

Thanks, that makes sense now!

So the functionality is: "'Insert' adds either after the current track or after the previous 'Insert Next' or 'Insert' (unless the previous 'insert' was the first from stopped), but not after the previous 'Insert Last'".

Wouldn't: "'Insert' adds after the current track or the previous insertion" - be a lot simpler?

(I am thinking about updating the playlist manual section so that is why I think about how to explain things).

[Llorean]

There's no reason to ever have it insert after the last "Insert Last" though, since having the insert point at the end of the list doesn't allow you to do anything extra.

[cc]

Yes, I can see that, I just think always moving the pointer would be easier to understand (and easier to code - maybe a good way to fix the bug above?).

The most confusing one (to me) is not moving it for the first insert while stopped. If you did move it you could just use "Insert Next" to get the current functionality, and not have to remember/explain that insert when stopped is a special case for the pointer movement.

[Llorean]

The first insert while stopped *creates* the playlist. We've covered it elsewhere. Then, after the playlist is created, the playlist begins playing. The "Insert" location is set to the currently playing song.

It really feels like you're just trying to come up with different angles to quibble over the method of new playlist creation, there really have been very few other complaint on this among thousands of users, so it seems most people have no problem going from "Insert while stopped creates a new playlist" to "The insert point is at the 'now playing' song unless you manually move it, just like playing an existing playlist."

[dunno]

Llorean, with file tree, playlist "Insert" always inserts the directory\Album next, so something isnt right there but I`ve learnt to live with it.

[Llorean]

1) If something isn't working, don't "Learn to live with it." File a bug report, or document it more clearly if there's an existing one, and perhaps even contribute by going into the code and working on it. You've been around here long enough, you know the forums aren't the proper place for bug reports.

2) What do you mean by "Always inserts Next." Do you mean that "Insert will always insert immediately after the currently playing song" because that's what "Insert Next" does. If you're playing A and you "Insert" B, then C, you should get A B C (assuming no other operations). If you're playing A and "Insert Next" B then C, you should get A C B. Saying that Insert always Inserts Next, does this mean that you get A C B with "Insert"?

[dunno]

1) you know the forums aren't the proper place for bug reports.

correct.

2) What do you mean by "Always inserts Next." Do you mean that "Insert will always insert immediately after the currently playing song" because that's what "Insert Next" does. If you're playing A and you "Insert" B, then C, you should get A B C (assuming no other operations). If you're playing A and "Insert Next" B then C, you should get A C B. Saying that Insert always Inserts Next, does this mean that you get A C B with "Insert"?

with a playlist A B C D, currently playing A, Insert will add the new entry A E B C D.

[Llorean]

You didn't actually answer my question, which requires TWO insert actions to take place...

I don't see the bug, if you start a playlist A B C D, the insert point is on the "Currently Playing" song until you perform an action that moves it. Could you explain what you EXPECT to happen when the playlist is at A B C D and the "Insert Point" is A, and you choose "Insert" since you seem to be expecting something different from what does happen?

[dunno]

paul, I dislike the complexity of the playlist insert method intensely, I think that it could be simplified, but, we have had this discussion before to no avail, so there is no point in discussing it again now, do a search for our previous discussion to see how the menu system could be simplified.
I think that Insert and Insert next could be rationilised, do away with Insert and have Insert next and Insert last only. (and respective queue menus as well).

and to answer your ?, Insert behaves like Insert next all the time, how ever I haven't checked with a recent build.

[Llorean]

Insert Next and Insert Last makes it PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to Insert A, then B, then C and get "A B C", so I don't understand how your idea can work at all... Using only Insert Next you would have to, starting from A, insert C then B to get "A B C" using next-only style insertion.

To force a user to do this is silly, and counterintuitive.

Now, we were discussing a claimed BUG, not the logic. Does or does not "Insert" always perform the same action as "Insert Next" as you previously claimed, or were you simply looking for an excuse to proclaim your views that the existing system is faulty and could better be replaced with one that requires a user insert their songs in reverse order to play them?

[dunno]

i normally create long playlists inserting whole albums\directories. and heck I shouldnt be complaining about this as its exhibiting the behaviour i like :-))

[Llorean]

I did not ask for your normal use habit, and "Song A B and C" can be replaced with "Folder A B and C" in my example above, creating the exact same problem, so that was pointless.

Seriously, this thread is about whether insertion works right or not, it's 100% clear that having only "Next" and "Last " forms of insert creates a use case that is far more awkward than our current one, because it requires reverse insertion. I'm sorry if you can't see this, and I'll be more than happy to explain the very simple math of this via PM if you're curious, but this thread is not for arguing this point: If you're not going to answer the question about whether or not it works as I've said it's supposed to work, please stop posting unrelated things like "How I use my player."

Why can't you just answer the single question I ASKED you?

Seriously, you've attempted to hijack this thread, and I really ought to ban you for this, but I'm showing some small lenience, so please, simply answer the question.

[dunno]

I did not ask for your normal use habit, and "Song A B and C" can be replaced with "Folder A B and C" in my example above, creating the exact same problem, so that was pointless.

I was merely providing more information for you to assist you with trouble shooting should you try to replicate the problem,

Seriously, this thread is about whether insertion works right or not, it's 100% clear that having only "Next" and "Last " forms of insert creates a use case that is far more awkward than our current one, because it requires reverse insertion. I'm sorry if you can't see this, and I'll be more than happy to explain the very simple math of this via PM if you're curious, but this thread is not for arguing this point: If you're not going to answer the question about whether or not it works as I've said it's supposed to work, please stop posting unrelated things like "How I use my player."

back on your high horse again paul......
I did clarify and if you cant read then i would be happy to pm the alphabet to you. sheeesh