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Author Topic: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?  (Read 25296 times)

Offline fml2

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2007, 11:18:15 AM »
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If we're going to allow any playlist manipulation while stopped, shouldn't there then be an option to clear a playlist, or start a new playlist without starting playback then?
For the sake of completeness -- yes, there could be such option. But I think a list would only be cleared just before adding something to it. And that can be made either by "Play Next" or by selecting a song. In the latter case, playback is automatically started as well.

If we would treat the playlist as non-existent (or not active) as you suggest, each Insert operation would empty it, right? So it wouldn't be possible to sequentially add several songs to the list while in Stopped.
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Offline Llorean

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2007, 11:23:05 AM »
The first insert starts playback (but doesn't enter the WPS). This is in line with the theory "The playlist isn't there (or 'active') when playback has stopped."
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Offline fml2

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2007, 11:46:52 AM »
Quote from: Llorean on October 02, 2007, 11:23:05 AM
The first insert starts playback (but doesn't enter the WPS). This is in line with the theory "The playlist isn't there (or 'active') when playback has stopped."

He-he, I can't agree. "The playlist isn't there (or 'active') when playback has stopped." doesn't mean "If there's a playlist then playback should start." I.e. I dont' understand why an Insert should start playback. I'll speculate: this is just to make possible insertion of several songs while staying in line with your proposal (stop=no playlist). Right?
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Offline Llorean

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2007, 11:52:12 AM »
There's no reason to have an active playlist if playback isn't happening, though. If you need to prepare one in advance, the PC is far better, and even then if you don't want to hear anything, don't plug in your headphones, but if you're starting a new, empty playlist on a player, the assumption is that you're playing it. I don't quite understand what exactly you're asking, though.
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Offline fml2

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2007, 12:06:01 PM »
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There's no reason to have an active playlist if playback isn't happening, though.
For you

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If you need to prepare one in advance
For me, this is a perfectly reasonable reason to have a playlist without playback. This is also in the line with the facts that you can see the playlist while stopped.

I look at this from the perspective of a user. I'm not interested in the fact that the playlist (technically speaking) isn't there but is restored in the moment you want to see it. If I cann see it anytime, it's there. This is the perception.

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the PC is far better, and even then if you don't want to hear anything, don't plug in your headphones
Well, THAT is really errr... a trick

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but if you're starting a new, empty playlist on a player, the assumption is that you're playing it.
Again, this is your assumption.

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I don't quite understand what exactly you're asking, though.
Agreed. If not many are inteersted in it then there's no point in argueing. I won't make a patch for this. If cc does then it's up to him to persuade everybody that it's good. But I'd be rather on his side.
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Offline LinusN

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2007, 02:40:29 AM »
On several occasions, I have had the need to prepare a small playlist with the player, and not have it start playing the first inserted song immediately. I think it would be a quite neat feature.
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Offline cc

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2007, 04:51:49 AM »
Quote from: LinusN on October 03, 2007, 02:40:29 AM
On several occasions, I have had the need to prepare a small playlist with the player, and not have it start playing the first inserted song immediately. I think it would be a quite neat feature.

Maybe the behaviour of an editing-playlist-while stopped feature should be to never restart playback after insert/queue/replace?

Presumably if the user has stopped playback and gone into the (new) playlist menu he intends to do something more complicated than just selecting a file (or directory) to play.
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Offline pondlife

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2007, 05:13:35 AM »
I might be wrong, but I think the problem is one of consistency.  Originally, Rockbox was definitely intended to work as "the current playlist doesn't exist once playback is stopped".  However, some changes have been made towards "the current playlist always exists" model (which I would personally prefer).

I can't see why stopping playback should have an impact on the current playlist really, it's the action of selecting a file in the browser when stopped that clears a playlist, no?

I'd also not prefer to have it automatically start playback when inserting.  Make the playback state independent of the playlist construction.

pondlife
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 05:15:26 AM by pondlife »
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Offline Llorean

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2007, 08:42:29 AM »
If that's the case, what do we want to do with the stop button? In a case where it doesn't make the playlist inactive any more, it's really lost its purpose.

Not starting playback on the first insert is fine, but Play and Pause will become the same button, functionally. The only difference will be whether the audio buffer is preserved or not, and functionally speaking, I think there's no reason not to always preserve the audio buffer, but if Paused, allow a plugin to empty it if necessary.

It does, on the other hand, mean that we free up another button.
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Offline Febs

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2007, 09:01:51 AM »
Quote from: Llorean on October 03, 2007, 08:42:29 AM
If that's the case, what do we want to do with the stop button? In a case where it doesn't make the playlist inactive any more, it's really lost its purpose.

Considering that the iPod doesn't even have a stop button, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing.
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Offline Llorean

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2007, 09:05:28 AM »
The iPod gets "Long press of Play" back, though. But other players have a button physically labelled "Stop", but we're negating any real difference between "Pause" and "Stop" (though there isn't any need for there to be a difference, if users don't want 'stop' to act like there's no longer an active song and playlist).
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Offline LinusN

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2007, 09:47:58 AM »
Quote from: Llorean on October 03, 2007, 08:42:29 AM
If that's the case, what do we want to do with the stop button? In a case where it doesn't make the playlist inactive any more, it's really lost its purpose.
I believe the main issue here is the automatic start of playback on Insert. I want to be able to start creating a playlist without having to play it first.

And no, I can't do it in paused mode. In order to pause the music, I have to start playing it, which I wanted to avoid in the first place.
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Offline Llorean

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2007, 10:09:17 AM »
Well, "What happens when you press stop" and "What happens when you choose to insert" are two different concerns anyway.

But for you, there'd need to be some way to load a playlist up (to then proceeed to insert into) without first playing that playlist, unless you're talking about inserting into a blank playlist (which simply requires having "Insert" not start playback, at least with the way things currently work).

Right?
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Offline bascule

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2007, 10:16:44 AM »
Quote from: LinusN on October 03, 2007, 09:47:58 AM
... I want to be able to start creating a playlist without having to play it first...

Doesn't the Playlist Catalog functionality cover this requirement?
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Offline pondlife

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Re: Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2007, 10:36:36 AM »
I'd be happy to merge the STOP and PAUSE states.  What are the current differences (from a user perspective)?

- PLAY->PAUSE, the WPS remains displayed, PLAY->STOP returns to the browser (or previous screen?)
- In PAUSE, selecting a file queues that file (and returns to the WPS) but doesn't resume playback.  In STOP, playback is started.
- PAUSE prevents voice output (that's a bug), STOP does not

Any more?

pondlife
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