Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?

[fml2]

If we're going to allow any playlist manipulation while stopped, shouldn't there then be an option to clear a playlist, or start a new playlist without starting playback then?

For the sake of completeness -- yes, there could be such option. But I think a list would only be cleared just before adding something to it. And that can be made either by "Play Next" or by selecting a song. In the latter case, playback is automatically started as well.

If we would treat the playlist as non-existent (or not active) as you suggest, each Insert operation would empty it, right? So it wouldn't be possible to sequentially add several songs to the list while in Stopped.

[Llorean]

The first insert starts playback (but doesn't enter the WPS). This is in line with the theory "The playlist isn't there (or 'active') when playback has stopped."

[fml2]

The first insert starts playback (but doesn't enter the WPS). This is in line with the theory "The playlist isn't there (or 'active') when playback has stopped."

He-he, I can't agree. "The playlist isn't there (or 'active') when playback has stopped." doesn't mean "If there's a playlist then playback should start." I.e. I dont' understand why an Insert should start playback. I'll speculate: this is just to make possible insertion of several songs while staying in line with your proposal (stop=no playlist). Right?

[Llorean]

There's no reason to have an active playlist if playback isn't happening, though. If you need to prepare one in advance, the PC is far better, and even then if you don't want to hear anything, don't plug in your headphones, but if you're starting a new, empty playlist on a player, the assumption is that you're playing it. I don't quite understand what exactly you're asking, though.

[fml2]

There's no reason to have an active playlist if playback isn't happening, though.

For you

If you need to prepare one in advance

For me, this is a perfectly reasonable reason to have a playlist without playback. This is also in the line with the facts that you can see the playlist while stopped.

I look at this from the perspective of a user. I'm not interested in the fact that the playlist (technically speaking) isn't there but is restored in the moment you want to see it. If I cann see it anytime, it's there. This is the perception.

the PC is far better, and even then if you don't want to hear anything, don't plug in your headphones

Well, THAT is really errr... a trick

but if you're starting a new, empty playlist on a player, the assumption is that you're playing it.

Again, this is your assumption.

I don't quite understand what exactly you're asking, though.

Agreed. If not many are inteersted in it then there's no point in argueing. I won't make a patch for this. If cc does then it's up to him to persuade everybody that it's good. But I'd be rather on his side.

[LinusN]

On several occasions, I have had the need to prepare a small playlist with the player, and not have it start playing the first inserted song immediately. I think it would be a quite neat feature.

[cc]

On several occasions, I have had the need to prepare a small playlist with the player, and not have it start playing the first inserted song immediately. I think it would be a quite neat feature.

Maybe the behaviour of an editing-playlist-while stopped feature should be to never restart playback after insert/queue/replace?

Presumably if the user has stopped playback and gone into the (new) playlist menu he intends to do something more complicated than just selecting a file (or directory) to play.

[pondlife]

I might be wrong, but I think the problem is one of consistency.  Originally, Rockbox was definitely intended to work as "the current playlist doesn't exist once playback is stopped".  However, some changes have been made towards "the current playlist always exists" model (which I would personally prefer).

I can't see why stopping playback should have an impact on the current playlist really, it's the action of selecting a file in the browser when stopped that clears a playlist, no?

I'd also not prefer to have it automatically start playback when inserting.  Make the playback state independent of the playlist construction.

pondlife

[Llorean]

If that's the case, what do we want to do with the stop button? In a case where it doesn't make the playlist inactive any more, it's really lost its purpose.

Not starting playback on the first insert is fine, but Play and Pause will become the same button, functionally. The only difference will be whether the audio buffer is preserved or not, and functionally speaking, I think there's no reason not to always preserve the audio buffer, but if Paused, allow a plugin to empty it if necessary.

It does, on the other hand, mean that we free up another button.

[Febs]

If that's the case, what do we want to do with the stop button? In a case where it doesn't make the playlist inactive any more, it's really lost its purpose.

Considering that the iPod doesn't even have a stop button, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing.

[Llorean]

The iPod gets "Long press of Play" back, though. But other players have a button physically labelled "Stop", but we're negating any real difference between "Pause" and "Stop" (though there isn't any need for there to be a difference, if users don't want 'stop' to act like there's no longer an active song and playlist).

[LinusN]

If that's the case, what do we want to do with the stop button? In a case where it doesn't make the playlist inactive any more, it's really lost its purpose.

I believe the main issue here is the automatic start of playback on Insert. I want to be able to start creating a playlist without having to play it first.

And no, I can't do it in paused mode. In order to pause the music, I have to start playing it, which I wanted to avoid in the first place.

[Llorean]

Well, "What happens when you press stop" and "What happens when you choose to insert" are two different concerns anyway.

But for you, there'd need to be some way to load a playlist up (to then proceeed to insert into) without first playing that playlist, unless you're talking about inserting into a blank playlist (which simply requires having "Insert" not start playback, at least with the way things currently work).

Right?

[bascule]

... I want to be able to start creating a playlist without having to play it first...

Doesn't the Playlist Catalog functionality cover this requirement?

[pondlife]

I'd be happy to merge the STOP and PAUSE states.  What are the current differences (from a user perspective)?

- PLAY->PAUSE, the WPS remains displayed, PLAY->STOP returns to the browser (or previous screen?)
- In PAUSE, selecting a file queues that file (and returns to the WPS) but doesn't resume playback.  In STOP, playback is started.
- PAUSE prevents voice output (that's a bug), STOP does not

Any more?

pondlife