Rockbox General > Rockbox General Discussion
Why does playlist insert replace the current playlist when stopped?
Llorean:
Okay, here's where I'm confused.
Basically, you suggest that "Insert, Queue, and Play Next" treat the current playlist as if it were still active, but the current song as if it were not active.
The current method treats both the playlist and the song as if they're not active. You're making "Insert" and "Play" treat things differently, especially in the case of a single-song playlist. It seems to be adding more inconsistency, because you're NOT playing a single song, you're playing (and have buffered) several songs, or at least, one whole playlist (that can be one or multiple songs).
To me, "consistency" means "If playback is stopped, there is no active song or playlist, it playback is happening, both are active", it seems strange that you can stop, and the song isn't active but despite that the playlist *is* active, but not loaded (it can't be loaded / in RAM or it prevents several other things from ever being usable).
fml2:
--- Quote from: Llorean on October 02, 2007, 05:21:53 AM ---Basically, you suggest that "Insert, Queue, and Play Next" treat the current playlist as if it were still active...
--- End quote ---
'present' would be a better word.
--- Quote ---...but the current song as if it were not active.
--- End quote ---
again: present. And current song in the sense of the song currently being played back, not the song whose position is stored somewhere for later resume. (I hope you agree that if we're in STOP there is no song being played.)
With these definitions, I don't see any contradiction. 'Play next' retains the current song (in the above sense) if it's present and makes it queued (instead of firmly inserted). If there's no current song, there is also nothin to retain.
Since the playlist is still present, Insert can also be made. It's only not quite clear what the insertion point would be. I'd suppose it to be where it would be if no STOP had been made (since STOP does not impact the playlist in any way).
--- Quote ---You're making "Insert" and "Play" treat things differently
--- End quote ---
As they usually are
--- Quote ---To me, "consistency" means "If playback is stopped, there is no active song or playlist, it playback is happening, both are active"
--- End quote ---
Here lies the difference in our points of view. I consider the playlist as still present. And I don't even want to introduce the word 'active.'
Anyway, I'd suggest others to write their opinions. It seems that I'm not the only person in the world with the reasoning I presented here.
Llorean:
You seem to have missed my point. You're using words like "present" and "current" as if they had different meanings
Let's use "Previous" both for the last playlist played, and the last song played. Neither of them is in RAM, so neither is "active" and you want to treat the playlist as if it WERE active (honoring the current position within it, and inserting tracks into it as if the playlist were active) while treating the song as if it were not active (removing it if you choose play next, and ignoring the fact that a resume position exists). This is my point: You want to treat them differently, though when you are Stopped NEITHER is 'active' and when you're Paused, both are.
You've especially not addressed the fact that this
A) Makes the Pause and Stop buttons essentially identical in function, removing the usefulness of one of them entirely
B) Requires that the Insert function ignore whether the playlist is stopped or Paused, but the Play Next function dependent upon the playback status, rather than simply admitting globally that there is a difference between "Stop" and "Pause." You basically just want a stopped playlist to be treated differently by a different option than what treats it differently now, which is just moving the inconsistency you claim is there, while making "Stop" semantically useless in the process.
C) You ignore the fact that Stop removes the playlist from RAM, so it is an entirely different function. The playlist is not "Current" or "Active" or any other word you want: It's NOT THERE. Rockbox just remembers what WAS there, and can bring it back. It NEEDS to not be there for a variety of technical reasons, so suggesting that there be no way to stop, is silly.
Instead of re-stating your idea, why not specifically address the points such as "Why you think nobody should ever be able to actually clear their playlist" considering the fact that people frequently ask how to, and "What should we do about the fact that some plugins can't be used unless the audio buffer is freed and playback is completely stopped" and why "An empty buffer, and shutdown of the audio engine" shouldn't mean "an empty playlist".
cc:
Hmm, maybe the problem is that rockbox does such a good job of pretending the playlist is there :D
I mean, if I stop and then go to "View Current Playlist", there it is!
Llorean:
This was added on Aug 25th, as part of the ability to replay a playlist after it ended.
The playlist still isn't buffered. Would a more acceptable solution be to remove any and all capability of viewing the playlist when it's stopped, because it's not in RAM?
You've still neglected to answer several of my points, and I would very much appreciate it if you would actually address the problems your solution would introduce rather than simply quibbling over existing inconsistencies. Just because they exist doesn't mean that your solution is the only method for fixing them, nor does it mean they're necessarily bad since I strongly feel it's better to actually have functionality that lets you perform all the actions you want than to arbitrarily restrict the user's actions in favour of an artificial "consistency" that exists only in the minds of some people in the first place.
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