Redesign of the www.rockbox.org front page

[saratoga]

Explain how it isn't please.

Well just for starters, it ignores my argument about the lack of a tradeoff, which is really the key point here.  The automatic installer is useful for everyone, so its a net win for everyone.  It also emphasizes an anecdote ("I find it useful") over the actual argument advanced.  

My argument here has always been that the removing the SVN table represents an unfavorable tradeoff between the need to inform people and your desire to recruit more non-technical users for as yet unstated reasons.    

[GodEater]

I think my large post highlights why I want them quite nicely.

[saratoga]

Would you mind restating it here?

[GodEater]

More users == more developers.

[saratoga]

More users == more developers.

Users who are discouraged by the SVN table are unlikely to ever become developers.  I think at best this argument is incredibly naive, at worst I'd say you were back-peddling:

we risk scaring new users (especially non-technical ones) with what they will likely see as a constant stream of techno babble on the front page.

non-technical users

not a tech savvy person

there's too much technical information on there that has no value to her at all

and so on.  Do you really expect people for whom code "has no value" to decide, after seeing a website without an SVN table (and only a website without an SVN table!) , to learn c and embedded programming? 

[GodEater]

You're doing a fantastic job of demonstrating your inability to read. Please continue.

[saratoga]

You're doing a fantastic job of demonstrating your inability to read. Please continue.

Either attack my argument or concede the point. 

[froggyman]

Do you really expect people for whom code "has no value" to decide, after seeing a website without an SVN table (and only a website without an SVN table!) , to learn c and embedded programming? 

I dont think it would be possible to do that with out any other programming skills.

But in all reality, rockbox is going to be more for people* who are already somewhat familiar with computers (not necessarily programming), so they will be interested in seeing what is being done, even if they dont fully understand it.

*I have friends who arent good with computers who will refuse to put rockbox on their iPod because they think it could "hurt it" and make it "slower". I also know someone who claims that he had a friend who used rockbox but he claimed it "destroyed" his iPod.

With that being said, I think that the majority of users would want to see the code updates (SVN table).

[saratoga]

Exactly my point.  People who are going to do development are not the people who are concerned about seeing a development log.

[Chronon]

Just to try to get up to speed, the current argument is about whether or not to have the SVN log on both the user portal and the dev portal?

[DancemasterGlenn]

I'm confused as well, but for a different reason. Is there a reason that the roll-down log idea on the new page is not sufficient/prominent? It's a click away, and doesn't even take you away from the main page. Would it be a better/worse/moot idea to switch it with where the wiki changes/mailing list entries are, and make those roll-down menus at the top?

Just trying to gauge general priorities, here.

[cool_walking_]

Exactly my point.  People who are going to do development are not the people who are concerned about seeing a development log.

You missed what GodEater said about non-technical users being more numerous, thus generating more word of mouth, thus leading more developers to Rockbox than if they were to just stumble upon it.

And yeah, what's wrong with the slide-out SVN table? (Other than possible slowness on old machines, for which we could remove the actual slide eye-candy and just have it dis/appear instantly.)

[AlexP]

Personally I'd have the svn log (in a cleaned up form) at the bottom along with wiki update etc.  That way it is there and easily accessible, but not the main thing that grabs attention.

[DancemasterGlenn]

Do you mean side by side? The only problem I see with it is that svn really warrants a wide space for all the information it displays, so it feels like it needs its own space. In contrast, things like wiki and mailing list don't take up a lot of horizontal space (which is probably why they got grouped together on the current mockup).

[rasher]

Ignoring the argument about the SVN table, it would be nice if it could be moved somewhere else in the page structure, so that it doesn't show up at the top when viewed without CSS applied (or in a non-css-aware browser).

Would this be possible?