Rockbox.org home
Downloads
Release release
Dev builds dev builds
Extras extras
themes themes
Documentation
Manual manual
Wiki wiki
Device Status device status
Support
Forums forums
Mailing lists mailing lists
IRC IRC
Development
Bugs bugs
Patches patches
Dev Guide dev guide
Search



Donate

Rockbox Technical Forums


Login with username, password and session length
Home Help Search Staff List Login Register
News:

Welcome to the Rockbox Technical Forums!

+  Rockbox Technical Forums
|-+  Rockbox General
| |-+  Rockbox General Discussion
| | |-+  new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 9

Author Topic: new ipods - rockbox port proposal  (Read 51155 times)

Offline countach

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2007, 11:23:32 AM »
I hope the arrival of new iPods wont disturb the focus in enhancing the battery duration in the 5.5 80Gb...  ::)
Logged
80Gb iPod 5.5 Video + Rockbox -> ALO Cryo Dock -> Leckerton Audio UHA-3 -> Etymotic ER-4P

Offline AlexP

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3688
  • ex-BigBambi
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2007, 11:35:41 AM »
There is no project focus on anything particularly, developers do what they want to do.  Besides, the new iPods are likely to be a nightmare if not impossible to port - the combination of new undocumented hardware, and I can't imagine the encryption is easier than the current Nano 2G which no-one has yet cracked....
Logged
H140, F60, S120, e260, c240, Clip, Fuze v2, Connect, MP170, Meizu M3, Nano 1G, Android

Offline LambdaCalculus

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2257
  • Dreaming of Turing Machines...
    • The Nostalgia Roadtrip
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2007, 11:41:23 AM »
I have this sinking feeling that the hardware inside might be similar to what's in the nano, given Apple's track record and their move away from PortalPlayer.

Then again, you're right, BigBambi. It may be a brand new chipset inside, quite possibly something with no public documentation. I guess the only way to find is for a few brave souls to step forward, buy a few new iPods, and crack them open to get a good look at the innards...
Logged
Former Rockbox dev. Rising from the ashes...

Players: iPod Video /w 128GB SSD mod, H320 /w 128GB SSD mod

Offline AlexP

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3688
  • ex-BigBambi
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2007, 11:42:43 AM »
Quote from: LambdaCalculus379 on September 06, 2007, 11:41:23 AM
I have this sinking feeling that the hardware inside might be similar to what's in the nano, given Apple's track record and their move away from PortalPlayer.

That's what I meant.  The nano 2G is new (to us) and undocumented (publicly).
Logged
H140, F60, S120, e260, c240, Clip, Fuze v2, Connect, MP170, Meizu M3, Nano 1G, Android

Offline countach

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2007, 11:43:32 AM »
I know the 'focusless' of the project, I was only wondering about a 5.5 developer who suddenly upgrades his rig...  :)


And about the whole thing... Has anybody made contact with apple asking for documentation? Despite the iTunes drm stuff, the Rockbox existence maybe will raise the iPod sales, so there would be no harm at all to apple.


Myself, I bough the iPod only because Rockbox. Period.


Edit: Typos
Logged
80Gb iPod 5.5 Video + Rockbox -> ALO Cryo Dock -> Leckerton Audio UHA-3 -> Etymotic ER-4P

Offline AlexP

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3688
  • ex-BigBambi
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2007, 11:47:06 AM »
We have relativly few iPod developers at all, and even fewer 5.5G ones.  Besides the battery live issue is not just a 5.5G one, it affects all players that use the same chipset.

For current iPods we would need documentation from PortalPlayer, which would mean a wacking great NDA.  For newer iPods (probably, certainly the Nano 2G) it means documentation from Samsung, which means a wacking great NDA....

Bottom line, we will have to live without documentation.
Logged
H140, F60, S120, e260, c240, Clip, Fuze v2, Connect, MP170, Meizu M3, Nano 1G, Android

Offline LambdaCalculus

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2257
  • Dreaming of Turing Machines...
    • The Nostalgia Roadtrip
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2007, 11:54:53 AM »
I'm one of the very few 5.5G users here that has even a shred of programming experience. I downloaded the source for Rockbox for the very purpose of learning how a full-fledged system like this works.

I would love to help resolve the battery life issue with the 5.5G iPods, but until I learn some more C (and learn embedded systems programming!), the best I can do is talk with everyone here and see if maybe our combined knowledge can find a solution to the problem.
Logged
Former Rockbox dev. Rising from the ashes...

Players: iPod Video /w 128GB SSD mod, H320 /w 128GB SSD mod

Offline countach

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2007, 12:03:40 PM »
So, things like this:

http://www.warthman.com/projects-portalplayer-pp5001-ds.htm

...are impossible to get, even paying?
Logged
80Gb iPod 5.5 Video + Rockbox -> ALO Cryo Dock -> Leckerton Audio UHA-3 -> Etymotic ER-4P

Offline LambdaCalculus

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2257
  • Dreaming of Turing Machines...
    • The Nostalgia Roadtrip
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2007, 12:11:57 PM »
What BigBambi was explaining earlier is that many of these companies will sign their documentation over to you, but there's always going be catches like:

1) "I agree that I will not share this documentation with anyone, nor will I make it available online, blah-de-blah..."
2) "I must agree that these data sheets can be revoked from me at any time,"
3) "I must agree that these documents will not be used for illicit activities. (note: which they will think Rockbox is)"

That's just the start of it. Like BigBambi said: wacking great NDA...
Logged
Former Rockbox dev. Rising from the ashes...

Players: iPod Video /w 128GB SSD mod, H320 /w 128GB SSD mod

Offline AlexP

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3688
  • ex-BigBambi
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2007, 12:57:33 PM »
You can get them, but you must agree to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement, which means not sharing them with anyone else, disclosing what is in them etc.  This usually (with rare exceptions) means not publishing open source code based on them.

Believe me, if we could get the documentation (and legally use it) we would love it.  It isn't just that we haven't thought of it.
Logged
H140, F60, S120, e260, c240, Clip, Fuze v2, Connect, MP170, Meizu M3, Nano 1G, Android

Offline Bugsy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2007, 02:22:58 PM »
Quote from: LambdaCalculus379 on September 06, 2007, 12:56:20 AM
Quote from: Chronon on September 05, 2007, 04:03:39 PM
You should ask if you can try out a scanner.  Then rip it open then and there!  

Oh man, those Apple Store employees would scream in agony if I did that! ;D

/me uses Angry Voice "I AM LRRR OF THE PLANET ROCKBOXIA! TREMBLE IN FEAR AS I PORT ROCKBOX TO YOUR PUNY NEW IPODS!! BWA HA HA HAAA!!"

Hahahahahahahahaha.  :D

I just fell out of my chair because of this one.

You are now quoted on facebook.

I was already planning to buy the 80gb next week anyways, so cheers to Apple for this one.

But without Rockbox, the 160gb is useless. So i'm in a pickle.

Any estimates on how much time it takes to learn whatever you need to program the ipod for rockbox?  :P
Logged

Offline LambdaCalculus

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2257
  • Dreaming of Turing Machines...
    • The Nostalgia Roadtrip
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2007, 02:24:56 PM »
When we're flying blind like we are with the nano, let's just say... "Only time can tell."

We never have an estimate as to when a port will be done. It's ready when it's ready, and that's also why there's no such thing as release dates in the open source community.
Logged
Former Rockbox dev. Rising from the ashes...

Players: iPod Video /w 128GB SSD mod, H320 /w 128GB SSD mod

Offline AlexP

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3688
  • ex-BigBambi
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2007, 02:26:10 PM »
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort

You will also probably be working on hardware without datasheets and very strong encryption.
Logged
H140, F60, S120, e260, c240, Clip, Fuze v2, Connect, MP170, Meizu M3, Nano 1G, Android

Offline peterw

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: new ipods - UI concerns
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2007, 04:53:01 PM »
If we're lucky, Walrus is right and the iPod Classic is basically a 5.5g. If so, the Classic 80 and 160 shouldn't be too hard to support (says a guy who's barely compiled Rockbox source).

But the iPod Touch? The Rockbox code is largely driven by hardware button & switch events. The iPod Touch has what, one button (home) and one switch (hold)? Making Rockbox work on the iPod Touch would mean dealing with some serious user input issues: interpreting screen input, and possibly drawing controls on-screen. Even if you put aside the possibility any effort required to get code to run on the iPod Touch, the UI issues could be huge. Easiest might be claiming some portion of the screen for permanent user input control space. But would users be happy with a portion of the screen permanently dedicated to user input?

I hope the Classics are easy to support. I don't like the wheel much, but there's a lot to recommend the larger iPods for large music collections (which is why I've got a 5.5g 80gb). With all my decent quality MP3s and all of English Wikipedia on my iPod (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4755), I can't imagine using a DAP with only 16gb.

Hopefully the Classics' arrival will mean good prices on the 5.5g Videos soon...

-Peter
Logged

Offline gnychis

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: new ipods - rockbox port proposal
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2007, 08:24:59 PM »
heres an interesting proposal, ripping the hard drive out of the 160gb and dropping it in the 5.5G 80gb body.  Maybe this is possible.  If you check the sizes of the 6G and 5.5G 80 and 160 ipods, the 6th gen is .02mm thinner... this is a very small difference.

It seems as though Toshiba just announced a mini 160gb drive... that many are *speculating* may be the drive in the 6th gens:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/06/toshiba-announces-ipod-classic-sized-80gb-and-160gb-1-8-inch-dis/

So to avoid needing to crack the 6 gen just to get the 160gb, maybe it could be possible for us to drop a new drive in.

- George
Logged

  • Print
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 9
« previous next »
+  Rockbox Technical Forums
|-+  Rockbox General
| |-+  Rockbox General Discussion
| | |-+  new ipods - rockbox port proposal
 

  • SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2019, Simple Machines
  • Rockbox Privacy Policy
  • XHTML
  • RSS
  • WAP2

Page created in 0.157 seconds with 23 queries.