new ipods - rockbox port proposal

[countach]

I hope the arrival of new iPods wont disturb the focus in enhancing the battery duration in the 5.5 80Gb...  

[AlexP]

There is no project focus on anything particularly, developers do what they want to do.  Besides, the new iPods are likely to be a nightmare if not impossible to port - the combination of new undocumented hardware, and I can't imagine the encryption is easier than the current Nano 2G which no-one has yet cracked....

[LambdaCalculus]

I have this sinking feeling that the hardware inside might be similar to what's in the nano, given Apple's track record and their move away from PortalPlayer.

Then again, you're right, BigBambi. It may be a brand new chipset inside, quite possibly something with no public documentation. I guess the only way to find is for a few brave souls to step forward, buy a few new iPods, and crack them open to get a good look at the innards...

[AlexP]

I have this sinking feeling that the hardware inside might be similar to what's in the nano, given Apple's track record and their move away from PortalPlayer.

That's what I meant.  The nano 2G is new (to us) and undocumented (publicly).

[countach]

I know the 'focusless' of the project, I was only wondering about a 5.5 developer who suddenly upgrades his rig...  


And about the whole thing... Has anybody made contact with apple asking for documentation? Despite the iTunes drm stuff, the Rockbox existence maybe will raise the iPod sales, so there would be no harm at all to apple.


Myself, I bough the iPod only because Rockbox. Period.


Edit: Typos

[AlexP]

We have relativly few iPod developers at all, and even fewer 5.5G ones.  Besides the battery live issue is not just a 5.5G one, it affects all players that use the same chipset.

For current iPods we would need documentation from PortalPlayer, which would mean a wacking great NDA.  For newer iPods (probably, certainly the Nano 2G) it means documentation from Samsung, which means a wacking great NDA....

Bottom line, we will have to live without documentation.

[LambdaCalculus]

I'm one of the very few 5.5G users here that has even a shred of programming experience. I downloaded the source for Rockbox for the very purpose of learning how a full-fledged system like this works.

I would love to help resolve the battery life issue with the 5.5G iPods, but until I learn some more C (and learn embedded systems programming!), the best I can do is talk with everyone here and see if maybe our combined knowledge can find a solution to the problem.

[countach]

So, things like this:

http://www.warthman.com/projects-portalplayer-pp5001-ds.htm

...are impossible to get, even paying?

[LambdaCalculus]

What BigBambi was explaining earlier is that many of these companies will sign their documentation over to you, but there's always going be catches like:

1) "I agree that I will not share this documentation with anyone, nor will I make it available online, blah-de-blah..."
2) "I must agree that these data sheets can be revoked from me at any time,"
3) "I must agree that these documents will not be used for illicit activities. (note: which they will think Rockbox is)"

That's just the start of it. Like BigBambi said: wacking great NDA...

[AlexP]

You can get them, but you must agree to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement, which means not sharing them with anyone else, disclosing what is in them etc.  This usually (with rare exceptions) means not publishing open source code based on them.

Believe me, if we could get the documentation (and legally use it) we would love it.  It isn't just that we haven't thought of it.

[Bugsy]

You should ask if you can try out a scanner.  Then rip it open then and there!  

Oh man, those Apple Store employees would scream in agony if I did that!

/me uses Angry Voice "I AM LRRR OF THE PLANET ROCKBOXIA! TREMBLE IN FEAR AS I PORT ROCKBOX TO YOUR PUNY NEW IPODS!! BWA HA HA HAAA!!"

Hahahahahahahahaha.  

I just fell out of my chair because of this one.

You are now quoted on facebook.

I was already planning to buy the 80gb next week anyways, so cheers to Apple for this one.

But without Rockbox, the 160gb is useless. So i'm in a pickle.

Any estimates on how much time it takes to learn whatever you need to program the ipod for rockbox?  

[LambdaCalculus]

When we're flying blind like we are with the nano, let's just say... "Only time can tell."

We never have an estimate as to when a port will be done. It's ready when it's ready, and that's also why there's no such thing as release dates in the open source community.

[AlexP]

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort

You will also probably be working on hardware without datasheets and very strong encryption.

[peterw]

If we're lucky, Walrus is right and the iPod Classic is basically a 5.5g. If so, the Classic 80 and 160 shouldn't be too hard to support (says a guy who's barely compiled Rockbox source).

But the iPod Touch? The Rockbox code is largely driven by hardware button & switch events. The iPod Touch has what, one button (home) and one switch (hold)? Making Rockbox work on the iPod Touch would mean dealing with some serious user input issues: interpreting screen input, and possibly drawing controls on-screen. Even if you put aside the possibility any effort required to get code to run on the iPod Touch, the UI issues could be huge. Easiest might be claiming some portion of the screen for permanent user input control space. But would users be happy with a portion of the screen permanently dedicated to user input?

I hope the Classics are easy to support. I don't like the wheel much, but there's a lot to recommend the larger iPods for large music collections (which is why I've got a 5.5g 80gb). With all my decent quality MP3s and all of English Wikipedia on my iPod (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4755), I can't imagine using a DAP with only 16gb.

Hopefully the Classics' arrival will mean good prices on the 5.5g Videos soon...

-Peter

[gnychis]

heres an interesting proposal, ripping the hard drive out of the 160gb and dropping it in the 5.5G 80gb body.  Maybe this is possible.  If you check the sizes of the 6G and 5.5G 80 and 160 ipods, the 6th gen is .02mm thinner... this is a very small difference.

It seems as though Toshiba just announced a mini 160gb drive... that many are *speculating* may be the drive in the 6th gens:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/06/toshiba-announces-ipod-classic-sized-80gb-and-160gb-1-8-inch-dis/

So to avoid needing to crack the 6 gen just to get the 160gb, maybe it could be possible for us to drop a new drive in.

- George