Rockbox General > Rockbox General Discussion
The never-ending, never completely working project
TheHarbinger:
I've been (trying to) use Rockbox with my iPod mini 2nd generation since I got it for a gift almost two years ago. Yes, I've successfully loaded it. Yes, it * kind of * works. By reading the forums I've gathered that the port is mostly complete, except for 'optimizations' that will increase the battery life to what it should be, support for other codecs (namely WMA which doesn't really work and which I wanted to use the software for), et cetera, et cetera. A glance at other forums here tells me that the other existing ports have their own little problems here and there. A 'stable' release was, I believe, supposed to be out last November. The last 'stable' release was, by the site's own admission, a loing time ago and supported one type of player. Meanwhile I read that the project is being ported to other platforms.
So the question comes to mind, and I think it's fair to ask: shouldn't the developers concentrate on getting a new, 'stable' release out that supports all the current platforms BEFORE taking on new ones...?
Now, right off the bat, I anticipate a couple of comments and I will address them right away...
If you want a stable release for your platform, then pitch in and help code one. I'm not a coder, don't plan on being one, and don't have the time or patience to do it anyway. I'm just a user who would (gladly) pay a sum ($20 perhaps?) for a finished product.
Don't complain if you can't or won't help. As a user of the software, I'd think the developers would like some feedback. I'm not trying to be a sm@rtass, just asking what seems to be an obvious question.
It's a volunteer, open-source project. What do you expect? Well, I'd expect that more people would have iPods than most other players and that would drive development faster. It's hard to believe that the current coders who have iPods are willing to put up with the niggling flaws that prevent the project from being great.
I've not been able to use the software as I wanted to because the port isn't complete, and today I took it off my iPod. (I got tired of it booting into Rockbox when it was supposed to boot into the original firmware, and getting the button-press timing right was becoming too frustrating to deal with.) I want to encourage the developers to keep up the good work--I read in the daily build reports that things are getting fixed, slowly but surely. I want to reload the software, and eventually will, but not before a stable release. I've also stopped recommending it to fellow iPod users. It has promise, but it's just not there yet. And I'm afraid that, if more platforms are adopted before the current ones are completed, Rockbox will end up as a package that is always almost complete, and that the developers have grown bored with and moved on to other things.
Discussion, comments? No flames, please. I've tried to be civil, and I'd like to see intelligent discourse as a result of this post.
Thanks for your time.
Llorean:
The problem is that apparently the "most users own iPods" doesn't equate to "most developers own iPods" as you seem to assume it does.
The iPod port is far from "nearly done" as there are still a very large number of quirks for the PortalPlayer hardware. The release in November was not to include iPods, and I'd still say they're all a long ways from being near release status.
If you can magically produce datasheets for the PortalPlayer chipset, you might see some of the improvement you want, but wishing for something doesn't magically make it possible. Some research beforehand would have showed you that the biggest hindrance for iPods is lack of information.
So it boils down to:
1) There is a lack of information.
2) Most iPod users are like you: They want to be a user, and expect someone else to code it for them under the assumption that if there's a lot of them, there MUST be a lot of developers with iPods, something that really isn't necessarily true.
3) Developers scratch an itch. If it's working well enough for them to use daily on the player they personally own, they often wander off to some other itch that needs scratched.
In 100% seriousness, if you want to see it down, you HAVE to do it yourself. Feedback like "It's not done yet, hurry up guys" doesn't make things better. It stresses people and makes them less interested in working on the project as a whole. If you really believe it'll never get finished the way things are going not, what stops you from spending six months studying programming in your spare time, then working on it for six months? One year from now is a lot closer than "never."
Febs:
--- Quote from: TheHarbinger on August 18, 2007, 04:51:42 PM ---It's a volunteer, open-source project. What do you expect? Well, I'd expect that more people would have iPods than most other players and that would drive development faster.
--- End quote ---
As a matter of fact, the addition of iPod platforms to the Rockbox family brought in very few new developers. Lots of kids who want to play Doom, yes. People who want to work on improving Rockbox, no.
--- Quote ---(I got tired of it booting into Rockbox when it was supposed to boot into the original firmware, and getting the button-press timing right was becoming too frustrating to deal with.)
--- End quote ---
You might want to read this: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodmini2g/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-240003.1.3
saratoga:
--- Quote from: TheHarbinger on August 18, 2007, 04:51:42 PM ---(namely WMA which doesn't really work and which I wanted to use the software for), et cetera, et cetera.
--- End quote ---
How does WMA not work?
AlexP:
Developers develop what they want to develop. We have very few devs with iPods, and the lack of information makes it a very hard port.
I am completely happy with the port on H140 and gigabeat.
Incidently, do you know how much a skilled developer would expect to be paid to do the kind of work involved in rockbox? I'll give you a clue - A LOT. With the lack of documentation available, it is many many hours work. Whilst donations are always welcome, $20 is going to employ someone for a few minutes.
This kind of post makes me angry. People work on what they find find fun. We would all LOVE all the ports to be perfect, but it isn't that easy. Without the documentation, trying to fix the problem is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I don't know about you, but that isn't my idea of fun.
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