Sansa E200: Help with remote control

[Woodski]

Hi there,

I just Rockboxed my Sansa E280 and it works like a dream
Just like on my old Archos and iRiver H140  

But I can't get the remote control of the docking station working.
I'm afraid it is not support, or am I missing something?

Keep up the great work !!

[Bagder]

If it doesn't work, it isn't supported.

So, join in and make it work or sit back and cross your fingers that someone at some point in the future implements support for it...

[John Brown]

I'm very interested in "fixing"  the remote so that it works on the Sansa!
Can someone direct me how i could help? Also is there a way i can change  my e250r to a normal e250, then rockbox it? Without killing it? So i can help with development?                

[Bagder]

I'm very interested in "fixing"  the remote so that it works on the Sansa!
Can someone direct me how i could help?

Actually, if you need to ask that, you're probably not the right person for the job. Figure out the docking connections, figure out how the remote works. Adapt rockbox to react to the remote actions.

Also is there a way i can change  my e250r to a normal e250, then rockbox it? Without killing it?

Yes, return it to the store you bought it in and get a replacement! :-)

So i can help with development?                

We still haven't figured out the R models so we can indeed use help on that front too...

[John Brown]

much obliged... the only thing the sansa port page is too confuzing can someone please tell me exacly what i need to do to help port rockbox?

[AlexP]

If the port page is too confusing, you might want to think twice about trying to port.

Nonetheless, good luck.

[moxfyre]

If it doesn't work, it isn't supported.

So, join in and make it work or sit back and cross your fingers that someone at some point in the future implements support for it...

I'm a recent convert to Rockbox, and handy with an oscilloscope and a soldering iron... I'd love to help figure out the missing pins on the Sansa dock connector and which ones work with the remote :-)  The Sansa Base Station offers an infrared remote to control Sansa Players, along with mini-USB and 3.5mm audio out jack.  It is $50, which is rather steep in my opinion.  To my knowledge, this is the only accessory that offers remote control of Sansas.

My fairly educated ideas about how it works:

• Most infrared remotes transmit signals in some kind of serial protocol (RS232, I2C, SPI, etc.)
• If the Sansa e200 is anything like the iPods (and they certainly are, being based on the same PortalPlayer chips), there will be an RS232-ish serial port with TTL logic levels occupying 2 of the dock pins (Rx, Tx).

If I had a Sansa Base Station, it should be pretty easy to disassemble it and figure out which pins the serial signals go to, perhaps with the use of an oscilloscope.  Possibly even just using Rockbox's I/O ports debugging utility, the remote serial protocol could then be figured out, allowing compatibility with the original Sansa Base Station.

Having an accessible "hard" serial port (i.e. not one emulated over USB) would probably be a boon for debugging and porting to all kinds of Sansa devices, as it would allow a serial console to be started very early in the bootloader process.

I don't really want to spend $50 on a Sansa Base Station, though.  Does anyone have one, and would be willing to take some high-quality photos of the innards?

[Blue Dude]

This is kind of a chicken and egg problem.  I don't want to go get one unless it can be used with Rockbox, and yet...

I hope something good comes of this project though.  Remote control capability would be very nice.  Once you have the hardware figured out I'd be glad to help with the firmware.

One possible problem before you get too involved: the remote doesn't quite have all the capability of the Sansa handheld interface.  It's missing the bottom "menu" button and, crucially, the select button.  It's also unclear if the remote will support short/long button presses.  So you could have the hardware all scoped out, but it could be unsuitable for controlling Rockbox.

[moxfyre]

This is kind of a chicken and egg problem.  I don't want to go get one unless it can be used with Rockbox, and yet...

I see from the SansaAcessories wiki page that one of the Rockbox devs (Jonas Haeggqvist) has tested the Sansa Base Station... maybe he actually owns one, and could look at the internals?

I hope something good comes of this project though.  Remote control capability would be very nice.  Once you have the hardware figured out I'd be glad to help with the firmware.

Well, I think if someone had the thing in hand and the electronic test equipment, it'd be pretty much a done deal.  I'd be amazed if it's anything *other than* a simple logic-level serial protocol.  Presumably the base station contains a little 8-bit microcontroller to convert the infrared signals to the serial protocol.

One possible problem before you get too involved: the remote doesn't quite have all the capability of the Sansa handheld interface.  It's missing the bottom "menu" button and, crucially, the select button.  It's also unclear if the remote will support short/long button presses.  So you could have the hardware all scoped out, but it could be unsuitable for controlling Rockbox.

Yeah, I heard that the remote is pretty underwhelming interface-wise.  Mostly I'd be interested in figuring out if it's based on an underlying two-way serial port, which would be a big boon to debugging if it's present in all the Sansas with dock connector.

[saratoga]

Assuming it works with the serial interface like the ipods, it might make sense to just enable ipod accessory protocol support on the Sansas.  You'd need to make a simple adapter since the pins aren't the same, but then you could use any of a large number of remotes and docking stations with the sansa.

[epithetless]

The Sansa Base Station offers an infrared remote to control Sansa Players, along with mini-USB and 3.5mm audio out jack.  It is $50, which is rather steep in my opinion.  To my knowledge, this is the only accessory that offers remote control of Sansas.

With the thought that it might expand this thread's noble pursuit in some way, I just wanted to add a couple more accessories to the list of ones that dock the Sansa and feature remotes:

- Altec Lansing's inMotion iM413 Portable Audio System
- Timex's TS70B Clock Radio

I own the former, but I don't believe there's an easily reversible way to open it up and inspect the internals. I'll give it another look and see if I can come up with anything, though.

[moxfyre]

The Sansa Base Station offers an infrared remote to control Sansa Players, along with mini-USB and 3.5mm audio out jack.  It is $50, which is rather steep in my opinion.  To my knowledge, this is the only accessory that offers remote control of Sansas.

With the thought that it might expand this thread's noble pursuit in some way, I just wanted to add a couple more accessories to the list of ones that dock the Sansa and feature remotes:

- Altec Lansing's inMotion iM413 Portable Audio System
- Timex's TS70B Clock Radio

Ah!  Good to know that there are other accessories offering remote control.  Hopefully at least one is easily reverse-engineer-able!   

I own the former, but I don't believe there's an easily reversible way to open it up and inspect the internals. I'll give it another look and see if I can come up with anything, though.

Cool!  If you could even figure out which of the dock pins are actually connected to the base station, that'd probably be a huge boost... I've got my money on pins 24-26 being the serial port, based on popping my e200 open and finding visible traces to those pins with no documentation to be found.

UPDATE:

Some material that may help, and for comparative purposes:

• What the inside of the Griffin Powerdock for Sansa looks like (including the seemingly important requirement of a 47k resistor between +5V and pin 7, to enable line-out via the dock connector, at least with stock firmware)
• For comparison, the iPods use various values of resistors between pin 21 and ground to enable different kinds of accessories, including serial communications
• Here's a great guide to the iPod serial protocol, which is basically 8N2 RS232 with CMOS line levels.  It links to a pinout showing the dock pins that need to be jumped to enable the serial communications.

I would expect that we're looking for something similar in the Sansa Base Station, or the Timex or Altec Lansing docks with remote controls.  By process of elimination, there should be:

• Power connections to pins 1,2 (+5 V) and 3,6 (GND)
• USB data connections to pins 4,5 (USB data +/-)
• Audio connections to 27,28,29,30
• 47k resistor between +5V and pin 7 (likely cue to signal use of a line-out dock)
• Two or three other pins connected to the microcontroller: must be the serial protocol.

So if anyone can look inside a dock with a remote, this is probably what you should be looking for.[/list][/list]

[nilreb]

I don't know whether this could be useful. I made a picture of a base station's board. Because i also don't know, whether it is allowed to upload pictures here, i uploaded it to imageshack.

The other side of the board doesn't have any components.

[Dark Horse]

I have just bought Altec Lansing's inMotion iM413 Portable Audio System and would like to get the remote working. so I have a system to test software when someone has a patch to test.   

[Dark Horse]

Bump? I really would like to get this remote working with rockbox I just don't know where to start .  I have a connect that does not respond to the remote but my sansa e200s do in the OF .( I don't have a c200 or a View to test with) Pins for the data cable can be found here:
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SanDiskSansae2x0PortPins
How can I test  pins 24,25,26 to find out if they are an rs 232 data port?