Pressing LEFT to get to WPS from file root

[Febs]

Wow I can't beleive this thread is still going hehe. I've been half way around the world and back since I started it. I really like Falco98's suggestion of long hold left.. that would be improving on the iriver's feature because as you said, you can get back to the root as normal without accidently going into the WPS. Must learn how to compile rockbox myself... or perform a jedi mind trick on the devs to get this implemented haha. This is the feature you are looking for.  =p

How is that an improvement?  That functionality exists right now.  All you're doing is adding existing functionality to a different button that could otherwise be used for something else productive.  Just one example that comes to mind:  long press of the left button goes to the folder above the present folder in the same level of the file tree hierarchy.  That would be great for navigating easily from one disc of a 2-disc set to the other.

This example is just the first thing that came to mind but it doesn't make sense to have two keys do the same thing when there are only a limited number of keys to work with.

[Falco98]

That functionality exists right now.  All you're doing is adding existing functionality to a different button that could otherwise be used for something else productive.  Just one example that comes to mind:  long press of the left button goes to the folder above the present folder in the same level of the file tree hierarchy.  That would be great for navigating easily from one disc of a 2-disc set to the other.

The point is a simple matter of good UI: don't force the user to go way out of his way to undo something: in this case, clicking the select button goes into the file tree, but (especially if you're using it one-handed) you must change your grip completely to then hit the "play" button.  Plus, as other menus can be exited using the "left" button, it's unintuitive.

Your example ignores the main point of this thread (unless i've missed something major in what you said):  the "long left" would ONLY work from the ROOT.  And for the unfamiliar, that means you are not in ANY subfolder of ANYthing.  Currently a long-press of the Left key from a subfolder zooms you back to root, and there's no need to change this functionality, even if my suggestion were to be implemented.  The action you seem to want (going up one folder level, right?) is already accomplished by a single press of the "left" key... that or i really missed your point.

[Llorean]

You just clarified that you don't understand the UI concept of Rockbox. As you said 'other menus can be exited using the "left" button'. The furthest you can "exit" to is the root file tree. Not the WPS.

[markun]

With so many people wanting this feature there must be at least one of you able to code and write a patch. Then everyone is happy and we don't have to talk about it anymore.

...don't force the user...

There is not a big difference between developers and users. We are all users and some of us learned how to code.

[Falco98]

You just clarified that you don't understand the UI concept of Rockbox. As you said 'other menus can be exited using the "left" button'. The furthest you can "exit" to is the root file tree. Not the WPS.

so pressing "select" on the WPS "exits" the WPS to go the filetree?  that's counter-intuitive too, but easy enough that we don't mind.  the irksomeness enters into the equation when someone can access, navigate through, and perform complex operations in the filetree all with joystick operation, but then when they feel like viewing the WPS again they have to reach around to hit something completely different.  It's especially pestersome when it was just an accidental click that took us away from the WPS in the first place...

in PC user interface critiques this would be called an "unnecessary switch from mouse to keyboard"... i can do X, Y, and Z with the mouse, but then to get back to where i was before, for some reason i'm required to reach across and hit the "A" key or something.

I'll live with the filetree as being the real "main" level, that doesn't mean the WPS shouldn't be given some easier access.

[Mr. Brownstone]

Falco98, do you have any feedback on this post for a slight reworking of the interface and button-layout?

[Falco98]

Falco98, do you have any feedback on this post for a slight reworking of the interface and button-layout?

I agree immediately with your suggestion that pressing "right" not play anything but only go to to a further sublevel (and perhaps, while we're at it, into the "long-push options"?).  I'm concerned about your revision of the "play" button, just because I and so many others are used to it returning to the WPS, and having it "play selected song, playlist, or folder" would be a dramatic alteration to get used to (though if it gives you a menu to confirm that might be cool).  I'd hate to have to start using the Record button (mine feels weird too), though adding some functionality to it might make sense in some cases.  I agree with your intent to make "enter WPS" more consistent across menus, though I like to point out that in most, the "left" key is unmapped (and in root, to not interfere with multi-tapping to return to root, we could make it a "long-hold left", which currently doesn't do anything anyway).

[Febs]

the irksomeness enters into the equation when someone can access, navigate through, and perform complex operations in the filetree all with joystick operation, but then when they feel like viewing the WPS again they have to reach around to hit something completely different.

Remember that navigation decisions like this need to apply to more than one platform.  Of the three Rockbox platforms that I own, what you just said is true of the H100 platform (although I've never found it to be a problem), but not of the H300 series or the iPod.  On the H300, the PLAY button is right next to the LEFT button, so it's really no harder to hit one than the other.  On the iPod, the PLAY button is at the button of the scroll wheel.  Since the scroll wheel doesn't give as much tactile feedback as either the H100's joystick or the H300s buttons, I would prefer that the LEFT button not return to the WPS.   As Llorean has noted, the present system is also much better for blind users, and the voice interface makes Rockbox hugely popular for the blind.

[Mr. Brownstone]

Falco98 > Thanks for the feedback!

My reason for having the Play button remapped is for two reasons: The first is consistency between the Browser and the WPS - Play does what it says. The second is pure selfish convenience on my part as the user of an H300 - The Record button is closer to my thumb than the Play button, so as a right-handed user it would be very easy for me to toggle the WPS with Record. Am I right to assume that the Record button is also close to the right-hand thumb for an H100 user, albeit at the side of the device?

I have also got used to the Record button doing nothing, and I usually use it to just turn on the backlight. But I think the existing option "Keypress effects when backlight is off" overcomes this - you can just use any button to turn on the backlight when it is off. I think this is also the default bahaviour since the feature was implemented. A long-press of the Record button would be great to jump straight to the recording screen, or perhaps Play + Record together like how the old tape-recorders functioned.

Concerning the "left key being unmapped", any action mapped to a directional key I feel should be intuitive to the overall interface concept. Since ROCKbox is removed from the iRiver firmware's concept of the WPS being the main-screen, the Left key is no longer intuitive as a device with which to "return" to anything other than the root-folder when in the Browser, because that's how all file-browsers behave. It makes sense for iRiver, it doesn't make sense for ROCKbox.

A long-press of Left I think would be better suited to returning directly to the root-folder.

[Febs]

Mr. Brownstone, your proposal is well-thought out, and there is much about it that makes sense, but there is a fatal flaw:  not all supported platforms have a RECORD button.   IMO, this means that the RECORD button can be used for as a shortcut for some other function that can also be accessed from the menus (e.g., as a shortcut to the recording menu, or to the radio), but not for a core function like accessing the WPS.

As for the effect of the RIGHT button on an individual file, I think that this is the perfect opportunity for the 1-click "add to current playlist" function that has been so often requested.

[Mr. Brownstone]

Febs > I agree. My solution is biased towards the H100 and H300. I also agree with the ROCKbox ideology of having similar functionality across all platforms, but I do not agree that functionality should be identical, especially when it compromises the usability of a particular platform.

The only solution I can see in such a case is to cater to each platform individually after deciding on a common-ground of basic functionality. I think it is quite possible for ROCKbox to have such common functionality across all platforms, but still cater to individual devices when needed.

I also like your for "add to current playlist" for the Right button, but that it should be optional.

[Febs]

Let's agree to disagree for the time being on whether the usability of the H100 and H300 platforms is compromised ...

I find moving back and forth between the iriver and iPod platforms right now to be very easy.  The core functionality of the navigation of both units is the same, so once you learn how to access features mapped to buttons on the iriver platform that don't exist on the iPod platform.  For example, when I first picked up the iPod, I had to learn that a long press of the PLAY button is equivalent to STOP.  Likewise, I had to learn that the A-B button on the iriver is equivalent to the MENU button on the iPod.  After taking about 10 seconds to learn those buttons, however, navigating Rockbox on the iPod was easy.

If you were to re-map the buttons on the iriver platforms so that basic principles of Rockbox navigation varied from platform to platform, it would compromise the usability of Rockbox for me, for many of the developers, and for anyone who switches from one Rockbox platform to another--and this last category can be expected to grow as Rockbox is ported to more and more platforms.  Moreover, I would expect that there would be significant implications with respect to the complexity and size of the code of the buttons on one plaform did something different than the equivalent button on another platform.

As I indicating in my last post, I agree with many of the design philosophies that you express in your proposal.  For example, the button that invokes the WPS from the File Browser should also invoke it from the menu system.  However, I disagree that you can assign that functionality to a button that doesn't exist on some supported platforms.

[saab_rider]

I see that this thread has been dead for a while, but I just found it.

Personally, I use left to exit a folder, and right to enter a folder/select a file.

So using left to go all the way back to the WPS changes the way I navigate.

I would've been happy if Play takes you back to the WPS, but other people have good points regarding how Play and Stop's functions should stay the same no matter where you are.

How about a long press of left to go back to the WPS? this way, you avoid using the record button, the Play/stop can still be used for their original function, and left still goes out of a directory...

I apologise if this has already been suggested, but this thread is 9 pages long!

[Febs]

I have definitely seen that suggestion made before.  Just curious though, in what what is this better than having a single press of the Play button invoke the WPS from just about anywhere in Rockbox?

(The reason I am curious is because there is a patch on the patchtracker that gives the Play button the "go to WPS" functionality from just about anywhere, and this patch will likely be committed to CVS as soon as someone tests it on Archos platforms.)

[saab_rider]

Hey febs.

Actually that is/was my prefrence as well. That was what I wanted up till I read some of the posts here.

The reason I beleive it wouldn't be a good idea to use play to go back to WPS is to keep it as the play/pause button regardless of your location in Rockbox.

So if you're in the file browser, menu, or playlist, click play pauses playback if you're already playing. Which makes sense to me (even though it wasn't what I oriignaly wanted).

I can live with play going to WPS though. But I don't want to loose left for going up a directory.