Before I Buy iPOD, I have some questions

[caldvd]

Hi,
I am a PC guy, tried a true.  I have been reading this forum for the past couple of days and must say that I'm a bit worried I'm going to anger the gods with my questions, so please be kind.  

I'm looking at the 80GB iPOD Video.  I will not use iTUNES.  I have WinXP Pro SP2.  I will most likely use Explorer to Drag and Drop, and SyncToy to keep the folder sync'd.  I will use Apple branded external power supply.  I read the RB manual, but still have some questions.  

1)Since most people are posting here with problems, I'm wondering if anyone knows the success rate of basically perfect functionality between Rockbox and 80GB iPOD Video.  I would like to see a poll if possible.

2)After I drag and drop, is updating the database easy?

3)SyncToy syncs windows folders rather well. Will it work to sync the folder on the ipod just as it does on regular windows folders? If so, which folder is my music stored in, or does it matter? For example I have a folder called Music, inside is all my music in categories, do I just drag and drop Music folder to the root? again, I'll not be using iTUNES.

4)After I sync, do I perform the same database update as the first time?

5)Can I install Rockbox before I put ANY music on the iPOD?

6)How do I deal with pictures and video? Where do they go? How are they accessed? (this is not as important, as I mostly care about music, but hey, if it can do it, I'd like to know how easy it is).

7)Is there any compelling reason to go with Anapod, MediaMonkey or other rather than plain 'ol Windows Explorer Drag n drop? Sounds from the forum that these all introduce issues re: double tracks, tags, etc.

Thanks and I hope this was not too painful for all you Rockbox overlords.
Thanks in advance for any help.
caldvd

[Llorean]

1) People don't post to say "Hey guys, everything turned out fine." The success rate is a pretty darn high, though in all honesty the iPod isn't the first choice I'd make.

2) This is in the manual.

3) This is something to ask the SyncToy providers. We can't know if someone else's software handles external USB drives.

4) The database update only cares about the files, not how they got there.

5) Yes.

6) This is also in the manual.

7) If you want to use the original firmware for something (often video, since on the 5G it's not going to be good in Rockbox).

As a note, please read the "POSTING IN THIS FORUM" before you post, I've moved this to a more appropriate place.

[caldvd]

1) People don't post to say "Hey guys, everything turned out fine." The success rate is a pretty darn high, though in all honesty the iPod isn't the first choice I'd make.

So what is the first choice? What I'm concerned with is audio quality, drive space and battery play time for audio.

7) If you want to use the original firmware for something (often video, since on the 5G it's not going to be good in Rockbox).

when you say 'not going to be good', can you expand on that a bit? since there is an option for dual booting, this should be easy to just switch back if I want to watch video, yes?  

What are the consequences to switching back to the original firmware to watch videos with regards to my music files?  I'll mostly be watching videos I make and output to MPEG-1 or other similar playable file. I have a background in video compression, so I'm not concerned yet with which format, just know that they will not be videos i've purchased through iTunes.

As a note, please read the "POSTING IN THIS FORUM" before you post, I've moved this to a more appropriate place.

Thanks and sorry for posting in the wrong place!
caldvd

[soap]

So what is the first choice? What I'm concerned with is audio quality, drive space and battery play time for audio.

For a large capacity player LL can speak for himself, but the Gigabeat is a very popular choice, and probably your best one if you desire video playback.
Audio quality:
It is known iPods have trouble driving sub 32 ohm loads (most earbuds and IEMs) and very high impedance loads (you don't see as many of these as you used to, few modern headphones have an impedance of greater than 100 ohms anymore, but many older ones did.)
The low impedance issue is one of poor bass response, the high impedance issue is one of insuficient power.
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9609.0 has pretty graphs showing the low impedance issue.
Google can point you in the right direction regarding high impedance loads.
Drive space:
The gigabeat F does not take the newer style ZIF 1.8" drives, but 40, 60and 80 GB drives are avaliable.  The Gigabeat X series might take a ZIF drive, I'm not 100% sure.
Battery play time:
The newer iPods all obtain only ~ 50% of factory firmware battery life when running Rockbox.
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodRuntime

when you say 'not going to be good', can you expand on that a bit? since there is an option for dual booting, this should be easy to just switch back if I want to watch video, yes?  

Not going to be good = sub 15fps.
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
Switching back is easy.  The manual covers this.

What are the consequences to switching back to the original firmware to watch videos with regards to my music files?  I'll mostly be watching videos I make and output to MPEG-1 or other similar playable file. I have a background in video compression, so I'm not concerned yet with which format, just know that they will not be videos i've purchased through iTunes.

There are no consequences to your music files in switching back and forth between firmwares.
You will have to, though, convert your files to the format Apple Firmware wants, which is not MPEG-1.

[senab]

3)SyncToy syncs windows folders rather well. Will it work to sync the folder on the ipod just as it does on regular windows folders? If so, which folder is my music stored in, or does it matter? For example I have a folder called Music, inside is all my music in categories, do I just drag and drop Music folder to the root? again, I'll not be using iTUNES.

I use SyncToy and it works great. It's not hard to set up, just select the folder on your ipod where you keep your music, and then the folder on your hard drive. Choose the type of sync you want, then press go.

[caldvd]

So what is the first choice? What I'm concerned with is audio quality, drive space and battery play time for audio.

For a large capacity player LL can speak for himself, but the Gigabeat is a very popular choice, and probably your best one if you desire video playback.

Thanks for the reply. However, I notice that the Gigabeat MES60VK is discontinued, not even available new on Amazon.  

It is not clear from your post, but this if this is the 'S' Series player that you speak of, it is not supported by Rockbox, so why would it be recommended on this forum?  Maybe I missed something    Insert irony here.  

I guess if it is as good as you say, it would not need to be upgraded.  The info on the web suggest that this may, in fact, be the best choice.  If only it were a supported, current product by Toshiba.

I'm sure this is just a misunderstanding on the subject, maybe you can help clear it up, or point me in the direction of new units for sale.  
Thanks!

[Llorean]

The S isn't the only Gigabeat. If you'd checked up on the site, the Gigabeat F and Gigabeat X are the ones currently supported by Rockbox, with possible Gigabeat S and Gigabeat V support in the future.

Why does a player need to be currently manufactured? You'll be voiding the warranty by installing Rockbox anyway, so all that should matter is whether you can get your hands on one of acceptable quality. 40gb Gigabeat Fs can often be found for under $100 US, sometimes even new.

[soap]

I recommended the F and X series Gigabeats, not the S, though it is being worked on.

You are right, you will most likely need to buy used.  As for manufacturer support...why pay for something you won't be using?  Rockbox will likely void your one year Apple warranty (which through four iPods I have never used.)

Wow - Jinx by LL

[caldvd]

Thanks for all the helpful info, guys. This is a great great forum with awesome contributors.  

I will certainly look into the Gigabeat F and X, but I'm not impressed with the spec on transfers (though that would change I suppose if I got it Rockboxed).  Specifically, drag and drop at only USB 1.1.  Will the thing transfer Drag and Drop at 2.0 speeds post Rockbox?

Also, the product names are so varied...i.e. MEG-F20, MP3TO40, MEGF40S, MEGF40  Look, these all have some combination of letters that may or may not include F or S and certainly not X (simply impossible to find the X60 or it's real name). I did find this:
http://www.gigabeat.com.au/brochures/Toshiba_gigabeat_X_Series_Brochure_Feb06.pdf
It certainly looks like the bomb, especially the X60 but this is from FEB 2006, we're almost talking 2 years old here. Why is it that the state of the state of MP3 players must make us go back to 2  year old, used technology?  (sorry, don't answer that, unless inclined).  

  This forum is supposed to use real language, and by calling something by an abbreviation of it's model is making this harder to navigate, so sorry for all the continued questions.  Not one person has been specific with a Model Name. Just F, S, and X.  

I have to say, I completely agree with the comment about need for manufacturer support, not needed if I Rockbox the Gigabeat, however, I guess I'm more concerned with Return policies, or getting something that has been (dropped, sat on, dunked, burped-up-on, left in the sun, scratched, etc.) that will work for 1 minute and then die.   I guess I just like my consumer electronics new, and my return options wide.

That being said, any other great players out there that are 60GB or more, with audio quality and great battery life that can be purchased new from reputable dealers?   I really and truly appreciate all the help you guys have given me and I'm now convinced that I don't need to settle for iPOD.  I'd rather wait for something better to come along that does not make me an iCLONE.

BTW, I own an iRIVER mp3-CD player that I got before the whole iPOD explosion, so I'm familiar with them.  Anyone care to give their two cents on those units please chime in here.

Thanks again,
caldvd

[mamboman]

I have an iriver imp-350 which i have been using for a number of years. it's simply one of the best portables ever made. in fact i am in the midst of getting one more just as a backup. but of course this is a off topic post since it cannot run rockbox. this player rocks and can use mp3, ogg files etc and comes with 20+ hrs of battery life for a cd player

[peterw]

As a new iPod owner (couldn't resist the refurb pricing on the 80GB now that Rockbox runs on it; I've been following Rockbox since the Archos Recorder days), another comment and a question.

The comment is that the scroll wheel can be annoying. If I've got a list of hundreds of items (an I do), even with scroll acceleration, it's darn annoying to have to keep moving my thumb. I'd rather hold a button than keep moving my thumb. The iPod firmware handles this better with the "alphabet jumps" in big lists. It may be that a patch could fix this, perhaps interpreting Hold Prev as Scroll Back and Hold Next as Scroll Forward, but I haven't looked into that yet.

The question regards video recordings -- to play a video encoded for the Apple firmware, it's also necessary to update the iTunesDB about the video, right? I've looked around a bit and not found any clear instructions on how to put videos on the iPod for the Apple firmware except through GUI apps like iTunes or gtkPod.

-Peter

[markun]

I will certainly look into the Gigabeat F and X, but I'm not impressed with the spec on transfers (though that would change I suppose if I got it Rockboxed).  Specifically, drag and drop at only USB 1.1.  Will the thing transfer Drag and Drop at 2.0 speeds post Rockbox?

Yes, with rockbox you will always have 2.0 speeds.

Also, the product names are so varied...i.e. MEG-F20, MP3TO40, MEGF40S, MEGF40  Look, these all have some combination of letters that may or may not include F or S and certainly not X (simply impossible to find the X60 or it's real name). I did find this:
http://www.gigabeat.com.au/brochures/Toshiba_gigabeat_X_Series_Brochure_Feb06.pdf

The F with 40GB is usually called F40, sometimes MEG-F40 or MEG-F40S (I think the S is for Silver)
Same for the X with 60GB: X60, MEG-X60 or MEG-X60K.

The F40 will probably give you the best price/value ratio of the Gigabeats.

Why is it that the state of the state of MP3 players must make us go back to 2  year old, used technology?  (sorry, don't answer that, unless inclined).  

One reason is that it took us 13 months to port rockbox to the Gigabeat, during which it went out of production.

[soap]

Not one person has been specific with a Model Name. Just F, S, and X.  

Don't confuse model names with model numbers.

That being said, any other great players out there that are 60GB or more, with audio quality and great battery life that can be purchased new from reputable dealers?

You should be able to find new iAudio X5s with 60GB capacity.  Their screen is smaller, and make a less ideal video playback device.  See the wiki page for the mpegplayer plugin again for resolution and playback speed.

But $150 WILL get you a Gigabeat F40, and you can probably score one for less.  Not much of a gamble.  If the eBay auction says it works, and it doesn't - you have someone to take it up with.  

[gnu]

You should be able to find new iAudio X5s with 60GB capacity.

No, they've been discontinued. You might get a used one off ebay, but you'll have a hard time finding a new one with warranty and everything.

[soap]

You should be able to find new iAudio X5s with 60GB capacity.

No, they've been discontinued. You might get a used one off ebay, but you'll have a hard time finding a new one with warranty and everything.

Huh, Target.com claims they will have stock in 2-6 weeks (Target is also selling them through amazon.com, so same source) and I ASSumed they were telling the truth.  I know they are no longer made, I just figured it was old new stock.