[iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database

[runawaywind]

I have done the appropriate prerequisites before posting. There were many related posts, but some had poor answers and others gave solutions that don't fully fit my situation.

I have over 150 Playlists in iTunes/iPod and cannot recreate all the m3u's by hand. Many of these are smart playlists that are changed on my computer regularly.

First I looked into TagCache (deprecated term for Database). So I guess I'm already using this since I auto update and all through the Database. What this is missing then is converting playlists (because it converts everything else).

Alternatives that aren't full solutions:
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/4771
This plugin is exactly what I need, but it looks like it's been abandoned. People were having some issues a year ago. Why not just integrate this into the database as default?

The program xplay reads iPod playlists/songs/etc so I could drag each playlist into a separate program to create the playlists, but Xplay is a trial only. This won't work because I constantly manage playlists within iTunes and they get changed accordingly in iPod.

http://www.ericdaugherty.com/dev/itunesexport/
iTunes export only works with the itunesDB (not on iPod), and will write the wrong paths to iPod drive since I sync with iTunes ().

I know that winamp and foobar can create m3u, but I won't be able to make these same playlist without some process that would (in a more automated way) clone the iTunes xml playlists into compatible rockbox m3u (it would takes days to find/sort/order the same playlists).

Thanks. And thumbs up to Rockbox.

[Llorean]

Seeing as Rockbox is a "replacement" firmware, that only partially offers the ability to run alongside another firmware, why should it add in an option that is only useful specifically if you're *not* using it as a replacement, adding code bloat and a decreased audio buffer for anyone who doesn't use a program not meant to be used with Rockbox in the first place?

There are many programs that can create valid playlists for Rockbox, and I'm sure some can do the equivalent of the iTunes smart playlists. In fact, in many cases one can reproduce that functionality using the Database in Rockbox itself with custom filters.

[bluebrother]

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/4771
This plugin is exactly what I need, but it looks like it's been abandoned. People were having some issues a year ago. Why not just integrate this into the database as default?

Because it would be awful to support: it relies on an unknown file format, which might change anytime.

There is enough software around that can export to m3u playlists. An example is Floola http://www.floola.com/

[runawaywind]

No problem. I understand it's not an objective to overcome other software, but just wanted to throw it out there. My gripe however, it is not quite as easy to actually replace playlists if it's really to be a r"eplacement." And it sort of defeats the purpose of even developing a database that is meant to copy the iTunesDB if Rockbox is not concerned with the default firmware.

I haven't tried floola yet, but I'm still procrastinating recreating/exporting hundreds of playlists one by one.

I appreciate the replies anyhow.

EDIT: floola does export m3u, but it copies associated files with it. It has no way of actually referring to original files linked to iTunes playlists

[Llorean]

The Rockbox database isn't meant to copy the iTunes DB. It's the Rockbox database. It's existed on one form or another since before Rockbox ran on iPods.

[bluebrother]

My gripe however, it is not quite as easy to actually replace playlists if it's really to be a r"eplacement."

Rockbox isn't intended to be a replacement firmware that copies the original but a replacement that has nothing to do with the original firmware. It happen to have a similar purpose though ...

IOW, no devs are interested in how the original firmware works. Which also implies the way how things are handled by the original firmware. This applies not only to the database but also to all other aspects of the firmware.

[GodEater]

This applies not only to the database but also to all other aspects of the firmware.

i.e. if you prefer how the original firmware works - then go use it - no-one's making you use Rockbox

[runawaywind]

This applies not only to the database but also to all other aspects of the firmware.

i.e. if you prefer how the original firmware works - then go use it - no-one's making you use Rockbox

That makes sense. Unfortunately I am not satisfied with the original firmware. I like certain aspects of both firmwares and realize there are advantages to having both (hence it allows dual boot).

I don't mean to slam Rockbox either. In fact I wrote a favorable review of it at http://liquidparallax.com/2007/07/02/upgrade-your-ipod-with-rockbox/.

The Rockbox database isn't meant to copy the iTunes DB. It's the Rockbox database. It's existed on one form or another since before Rockbox ran on iPods.

I wasn't clear in what I was trying to say. It doesn't copy iTunesDB, but it does scan the contents (audio files) that are associated with it.

In the end this is a trivial problem for me, but maybe there are other devs willing to tackle other problems I describe in my review.

[Llorean]

It NEVER scans the contents of the iTunes Database. It scans the files present on your player and organizes their metadata into its own database.

If you took the exact same music files and put them on a Gigabeat, you'd have the same results, with not iTunes database present at any point along the way.

If you meant to say "It creates a database from the same music files that iTunes does" then your argument could as easily be turned around to say that iTunes creates one from the same files as our database does, in which case I still don't understand your point.

[saratoga]

If you want to import itunes playlists, you should write a plugin that does it.

[Exitao]

I'm sorry but the answers you're giving this guy seem snobbish and wrong.

iTunes is fricking evil.  Unfortunately it's also the one media manager that handles loading of the iPod properly.  Every other app I've tried has caused small quirks to occur (most common is double loading songs).

But pretty much every iPod related app I've used makes playlists intended for the iPod firmware, which you guys have essentially stated that you want to ignore.

Soundwise, Rockbox is way better than the iPod firmware.  But if I can't import or use the playlists already loaded on my iPod that handle gigabytes and gigabytes of files, it seems like you want people to go back to the original firmware.

You either want your project to be openly accessible and popular (popular enough for people to want to donate and give word-of-mouth referrals, no?), or you want to be elitist gadget hackers.  But you should be clear about your intentions long before I have to come to these forums to find out how much you don't give a crap about what seems relatively important to what I'm sure are a more than a modest number of people.

[Llorean]

1) How do you get double songs with drag and drop?
2) What playlist creation functions does iTunes offer that Rockbox does not within its database functionality? Perhaps a feature request to fill in missing functionality in Rockbox might be better received than a "Make Rockbox compatible with a single piece of software that is only compatible with a selection of the players Rockbox runs on" style request.
3) Nobody has denied him his right to create such a plugin and submit it for inclusion.

[Exitao]

1) How do you get double songs with drag and drop?
2) What playlist creation functions does iTunes offer that Rockbox does not within its database functionality?

1)  Screwed if I know.  But anapod and Media Monkey have both done it.  And the songs show up as doubled in both the iPod firmware and Rockbox.  I've also had songs show up in both the RB DB and iPod and not be playable (corrupt?).  I've never experienced these problems when loading with iTunes (which I detest), so I use this POS software to manage my library and load my iPod.

2)  It's not about Rockbox's creation abilities. Long before I ever found Rockbox I made playlists involving hundreds of songs (or more) so that I could manually drag and drop those lists onto my iPod using iTunes.
Now, the ipod firmware uses those playlists and sounds like crap.   The Rockbox firmware gives me real EQ support and manages to give me bass that Apple never could.  But those playlists don't show up.  There's no way I'm replicating those playlists using that jog wheel.  
It was already time consuming enough on the computer sorting by genre, year, category and etc, and then sending to the various playlists in iTunes to the iPod.
The guy who started this thread is essentially saying something similar.
I've only got a 60gb iPod, but I have hundreds of gigs of mp3s on my pc and I'm pretty sure that iPod capacities and MP3 collections are only going to be growing.
 Â 
3)  Yeah.  Sure.  "We're not interested, do it yourself, we don't care."  So it comes back to my point about this project not being intended for everyone, just the gadget hackers.  Let me just scrounge up the time, inclination and coding experience necessary for me to do it myself. I'll get back to you on my results in about 6 months.  ;-)

[Llorean]

That still doesn't address the fact that this is a request to add fluff to Rockbox that only supports one non-standard piece of software that only works with a portion of the players Rockbox supports. Rockbox is not an iPod only project, and one of Rockbox's intents is specifically to free you from a dependence on a specific piece of software by allowing your player to use standard formats.

I humbly suggest that perhaps you file bug reports to the software that doesn't work, instead of suggesting that software that does work should include iTunes specific fluff because while you "don't want to use iTunes" you "have to" since you can't manage to get other software to do what you want.

But, as I said, you can just make a plugin that can convert the playlists if you really want it, but please don't whine about the fact that nobody really seems interested in doing it for you: Most of the core devs do not use iTunes and never will, so it's unlikely they have any real interest in it at all. EVERYBODY HERE IS A VOLUNTEER. If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, why on Earth should anyone who's not going to ever, ever use the feature do it for you?

[runawaywind]

If you meant to say "It creates a database from the same music files that iTunes does" then your argument could as easily be turned around to say that iTunes creates one from the same files as our database does, in which case I still don't understand your point.

You are correct about my meaning. But your reversed argument does not follow logically. Introductory Logic will teach you {A --> B} is not equivalent to {B --> A}. The reverse statement being "iTunes creates a database according to the file structure of the database (of Rockbox)".

My point (which I intended to be an observation, not a main point) is that Rockbox is capable of using the given file tree that iTunes makes. I just mentioned that because it supports an attribute (the file structure) of the iPod firmware, yet it doesn't support playlists (something I would have liked also supported). We have already discussed the actual issue and I realize that it's a feature that goes beyond the intentions of ROCKbox. I apologize for being unclear.

If you want to import itunes playlists, you should write a plugin that does it.

If I was a little more familiar I would. Since I am just dipping my feet in the software, I am not ready to do so yet. I figured I'd make my voice heard in case there was any info I wasn't aware of. Thank you anyway.

Exitao, thanks for understanding where I am coming from, but I do have trust that the Rockbox community does care. I would love to drop iTunes, but I (1) am not capable of coding my own media player and (2) find it hard to abandon the few things that iTunes is capable of in exchange for software that lacks the features in iTunes.