Root Folder

[GodEater]

Even after that entire headache you unleashed on everyone, you're still unsure about installing Rockbox?!

Mother of Eris, why us?

OT but, I'm enjoying trying to track down the obscure people you swear by.

Eris being the goddess of Discord in this case? Or someone else ?

[LambdaCalculus]

Eris being the goddess of Discord in this case? Or someone else ?

The same!

[betamaxman]

Boy we really racked that poor dude over the coals. Didn't we. I feel so much superior now that I knew root and he didn't.   8-)

[Febs]

The issue is not that he did not know what the root folder is.  The issue is that (1) he didn't make any effort to learn, (2) he nevertheless claimed to know what it is, and (3) he was following unofficial installation instructions rather than our manual.  Our manual is written in such a way that one does not need to know what the "root" folder is in order to install Rockbox.  One simply needs to follow the instructions as they are written.

[betamaxman]

He asked a simple question, politly I might add as well. One that could of been answered quite easily with ten or less words. Most people are brought to rockbox via other avenues, like it or not. Another simple answer concerning the manual would of sufficed again. And then there would of been another happy rockbox user. And the effort would of been less than was used.  8-)

[Llorean]

The first answer he was given was also simple and polite. But he did not go to use the manual, and I even used the word "please" when asking him to do so. Is it his fault or mine that he was unwilling to follow the official instructions, and should I be made to support unofficial instructions?

[AlexP]

He asked a simple question, politly I might add as well. One that could of been answered quite easily with ten or less words. Most people are brought to rockbox via other avenues, like it or not. Another simple answer concerning the manual would of sufficed again. And then there would of been another happy rockbox user. And the effort would of been less than was used.  8-)

The first two answers he was given from Llorean and then me, both said please look at the manual.  He did not.

I suggest you reread the beginning of this thread.

[stripwax]

Should this be made sticky?  Maybe if people see a sticky "Root Folder?" post in the forum, they'll stop asking this question over and over.

[bluebrother]

Should this be made sticky?  Maybe if people see a sticky "Root Folder?" post in the forum, they'll stop asking this question over and over.

I think this is rather something that belongs to the FAQ (besides the fact that the manual explains this term).

[Llorean]

Sticky posts only help people who actually look for answers to their questions. Anyone who actually tries to look will find many answers to what a root folder is.

I'm not of the opinion that a sticky post makes a post any more useful, only more obvious for people who can't be bothered to follow the rules: All posts exist, all posts can be found using the search function. I don't think it's our obligation to have a page full of stickies just so people don't have to use the search function, as it just makes the real purpose of the forums (discussion and questions) harder to accomplish since the first page of discussion will become more and more cluttered with stickies.

[betamaxman]

He asked a simple question, politly I might add as well. One that could of been answered quite easily with ten or less words. Most people are brought to rockbox via other avenues, like it or not. Another simple answer concerning the manual would of sufficed again. And then there would of been another happy rockbox user. And the effort would of been less than was used.  8-)

The first two answers he was given from Llorean and then me, both said please look at the manual.  He did not.

I suggest you reread the beginning of this thread.

I did and I still feel it was however polite, a tad too sharp and demeaning. The words might not have been intended as so but they came off as such, at least from my observers perspective, and seemed to lead to more hen pecking from other members with the suggestion that replacing firmware might be beyond the user's abilities.

Though root is a directory that most take as a given not all are familiar with the term. Even people who successfully build their own systems may not recognize the term and indeed today it is seldom ever used. So it is not hard to see how one might get confused. Especially when used with the term "folder". Linux for example has a root folder within the root partition. One might simply think it is such a  system folder of rockbox and labelled as such amd be dissmayed at not finding it. Be it the officila manual or not. So I don't see it as being an unreasonable question.
Remember some times it is not what is said but also how it is said that can define it as harsh or not.  8-)

[Llorean]

The manual never uses it with the term "folder" though. The exact term in the manual is "the root of your player's drive." It uses it only in the common-English context, not the technical meaning at all. So the argument that you've just put forth doesn't apply to a user reading the manual, and if the user's not reading the manual they're in direct violation of the forum guidelines anyway.

As I'm neither paid nor otherwise compensated in any manner for the time here, I think that I am not obligated to be respectful to users what are disrespectful to the rules that have been put in place here. I will show certain amounts of respect, but if my tone is not to your liking when a user violates the rules, I suggest perhaps that you instead suggest a way to make the rules more clear. Those rules include a requirement to read the manual. In fact it's clearly stated that posts in violation of the rules may be deleted outright without cause given. Instead, I asked him to please read the manual, making it clear not only that there was an answer, but where to find it.

In that light, and the fact that the user showed far less disrespect by lying when he agreed to the guidelines on signup, how is he any less in the wrong?

[betamaxman]

1) the only official instructions are those in the manual. Please do not ask for help about other peoples' unofficial guides.

2) Try googling "root folder", it's a common computer term.

The fact that you asked that makes it fairly clear you don't know what the root folder is. It's the "lowest" level. It's the 'folder' on a drive that contains every other folder. The root, that the filetree grows from, as it were.

I don't get paid here either, what of it.
 Any way Yes I know what it says in the manual. It doesn't change a thing. As per the quotes above of your post you your self even referred to it as a folder twice. I my self read that part of the manual twice before realizing that there wasn't anything there called /root, and even asked for clarification regarding it and received it, and thanks.

Look I don't believe for a minute you intended to be rude, and I apologize if that is what you thought my meaning. I am simply pointing out sometimes we need to exercise a little understanding towards new users that's all.

A reply such as, The utube video may be incorrect, the manual in the download is what you need to address. And there is no root folder per say, by root as stated in the manual we mean your ipod as it is displayed in explorer.

That would of told the person all he wanted and needed to know, as he didn't so much need a lecture on root just clarification if there was an actual directory labelled as root. then this thread would be much less than a page long.

[Llorean]

I don't see what the fact that I used the term "root folder" matters, when the thread started out using that term. My point was that the manual itself doesn't use that term, and we cannot be responsible for incorrect directions elsewhere.

I directed him to the manual, and to Google to research what "root folder" means, because I honestly believe that a person should be able to do simple research on terms they don't know, especially when those terms have nothing to do with Rockbox beyond the fact that they're a basic computer term. The idea is that instead of holding a user's hand, they develop the ability to think "I should check a few places before posting a new thread" because honestly, how many threads do we already have on Root Folders?

So I'm sorry, but I'm not going to directly answer questions that have been asked more than a certain number of times before. I'm going to direct them to areas where they can find the answer, because I don't want the same person to come back two days later and ask another question that's also answered in the manual, or that's also not actually a Rockbox question.

One of my duties is to try to make sure the forums don't become too cluttered, and as far as I'm concerned the best way to do that is to try to head off the creation of repeat questions by enforcing our rule that requires searching before asking.

[betamaxman]

Ok by me.  8-)