Rockbox General > Rockbox General Discussion

Rejection of "ignore the" patch (split from the Evil_G unsupported build thread)

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TedGamble:
For all you folks that are still depending on iTunes (or any other tagging software that falls way short of your expectations in terms of features), I have two words:  THE GODFATHER.  This FREE (my favorite F-word) software is loaded with just about every feature that you can imagine:  Batch tagging, batch rename, regular expression matching, and much much more.  Get this program, tweak your tags (in batch) and lay off beating up the Rockbox team because they don't want to do it your way.

http://users.forthnet.gr/the/jtclipper/

And, by the way, just because their website says "Beta", do not fear.  I've been using this fan-damn-tastik program for 6 months with NO, ZERO, ZIP, NONE problems.

lalittle:

--- Quote from: DefineByte on May 24, 2007, 05:29:37 AM ---It should be easy enough to write a script in foobar2000 to create the TSOP tags for you (foreign languages not withstanding). Is the extra effort your only beef?

--- End quote ---

Thanks for the suggestion -- I appreciate it.

Yes -- the extra effort is essentially my only beef.  Unfortunately, extra effort and time would still be needed even with a foobar script.  Having to use foobar -- even with a script -- would require extra time that I just don't have.  I know this may seem strange to some people who do this sort of thing all the time, but I have a limited amount of time to spend on this sort of stuff, and I'm already WAY over my limit.  My preference is still for a system that takes care of this automatically.  Others here call this a "hack," but to me, it would constitute a "solution" given the parameters that are important to me.

That said, if a script was written for foobar that created the "sort" tags automatically from the existing tags, wouldn't it have to use the EXACT same logic that I was talking about Rockbox using?  Rather than having a program ignore articles directly, we'd have a situation where one program rearranges the words in the tag in such a way that another program sorts them correctly.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Larry

lalittle:

--- Quote from: TedGamble on May 24, 2007, 08:52:09 AM --- lay off beating up the Rockbox team because they don't want to do it your way.
--- End quote ---

I NEVER intended to "beat up" on the Rockbox team in ANY way -- I honestly hope my comments were not taken this way (although I fear they may have been based on some of the reactions.)  I appreciate everything the developers have done with this project, and I have a great deal of respect for their expertise and dedication to Rockbox.  They've put a LOT of time into this, and they've done an incredible job.  I'm simply voicing my opinions and ideas on this subject since I truly believe that this can be helpful to a project like this.  I FULLY understand they may not agree with me, and I have no "expectations" with regard to them utilizing any of my input -- I merely offer my opinions for the purpose of giving feedback.

Larry

Llorean:
Just as a note, I do fully respect your right to offer your opinions on things, and if I've come across as somewhat defensive I apologize. It was beginning to feel like an argument to me, since it felt you were repeating the same reasons for doing it as had been said before.

Yes, the exact same logic would apply in the foobar script. But the logic itself isn't purely bad: If your collection contains only English songs, with a set list of known articles, and all songs need the article removed, the logic is fine.

Having the logic handle more languages, or a longer list of articles (the list of articles skipped would, for a fully functional feature, need to be independent of the current display language) would be part of a "properly" working feature. As well, if the TSOP patch feature were included, having an article skip feature would be redundant on the assumption that a user has properly tagged files (Rockbox already makes this assumption in several other places, so please don't use the argument that a user may not have properly tagged files: if they don't, it's their choice, and their choice alone). There are many reasons not to waste binary space on redundant features.

In the end, the TSOP patch offers the greatest flexibility regarding this feature.

I know it's not ideal for what you want, but a batch script could be used with Foobar as has been said, and I'm not sure about the "I don't have the time" argument on that: If you convinced someone to make the batch script (and I'm sure someone will at some point if the TSOP tag support gets written) then it's a matter of a batch process. You leave your PC running, and it scans the performer tags, and generates TSOP tags without the article. Heck, someone could even write a plugin for Rockbox that would (much more slowly) generate sort tags off the existing tags.

In my opinion though, sort tags would be an "optional" feature. You add sort versions of the tags if, and only if, the "Sorted by" information should be different from the display information. So for all artists not containing an article, and all artists you wish to continue to include the article in the sort, you don't have to add additional tags. Just run the batch script overnight on the other artists while you sleep, and you're done.

saratoga:

--- Quote from: Llorean on May 21, 2007, 11:13:11 PM ---It's not the right way to solve the problem.

The proper solution is this:
There are in many tagging formats two tags each for Title, Artist, and Album. One for display, and one for use in sorting. If you want The to be ignored, for the sorting tag, you put "Blah, The" instead of "The Blah" (which you use for the display tag).

So a correct solution would be for someone to make a patch to use all of the tags effectively, rather than for it to intentionaly ignore a string of characters.

--- End quote ---

I don't think adding more ID3v2 fields is really the best solution.  Besides the normal issues with incompatibility between custom fields across different software, theres also the practical problem of actually updating a large amount of music with custom fields potentially across many different formats.

IMO there should be a preprocessor that examines tags when they're loaded.  A language specific text file could define what strings should be parsed out, thus allowing intelligent behavior across many different languages while still allowing consistent behavior with other software.

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