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Rockbox General => Rockbox General Discussion => Topic started by: daps on February 13, 2014, 06:54:25 PM

Title: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: daps on February 13, 2014, 06:54:25 PM
Sandisk finally released a new upgraded clip. It doesn't look like a huge upgrade over the clip zip but the new sport model does claim 25 hours of battery life which is more then the clip line has offered in the past.

Image from head-fi

(http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1038547/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL)

www.head-fi.org/t/697524/clip-zip-sport-16gb/45 (http://www.head-fi.org/t/697524/clip-zip-sport-16gb/45)

hopefully it is similar to current players so rockbox will be a possibility on it. Just thought I would post this for those that hadn't seen it.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: OkieRA29 on February 15, 2014, 11:50:44 PM
I have had one for a week or so now....   My wife's Clip V1 finally started to fall apart so we went to Best Buy to get her another.  These were there and at 50$ for the 8gb seemed a great deal.  She has liked hers so far, but I discovered that the card slot is separate from the internal memory.  As in, I put music on the card and actually have to go to a different menu to see the music.  Needless to say, it is very frustrating.   I am now desparately wanting rockbox on it to solve this issue.  I would gladly send mine to someone to get the rockbox process started as long as I could get it back when finished.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on February 16, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
I'm curious what hardware the player is based on.  Are you able to open the player and take a picture of the processor? 
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: OkieRA29 on February 16, 2014, 12:33:38 AM
I can try, I am guessing that it is a just a downgraded Clip Zip.  I will attempt to open it in the next few days.  Working on a buddy's 240Z tomorrow, so might get to it in the evening
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: nick_p on February 16, 2014, 01:07:06 AM
Also, pamaury had some recovery mode tests he wanted tried;

http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=644137&postcount=111
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Nafania on February 16, 2014, 04:14:26 AM
Quote
I'm curious what hardware the player is based on.  Are you able to open the player and take a picture of the processor? 
If not attached to prev. post here is some links
http://i57.tinypic.com/1z6gyh.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2pqj29f.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1624opu.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/a3018i.jpg
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: pamaury on February 16, 2014, 06:56:42 AM
Hi,
great pictures :) Would it be possible to get pictures of the bottom side of the PCB to see if there are other chips ?
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Nafania on February 16, 2014, 07:59:53 AM
Hi,
great pictures :) Would it be possible to get pictures of the bottom side of the PCB to see if there are other chips ?
No chips on other side, only buttons and screen
http://i59.tinypic.com/f4gpd1.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2z52hiu.jpg

and battery pic if needed
http://i61.tinypic.com/2mcg2m0.jpg
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on February 16, 2014, 12:13:42 PM
That ATJ chip does have a DRAM controller, but its a 64 pin package, so probably any DRAM has to be on the package like with AMSv2. 

Edit:  maybe i misread and it doesn't have a dram controller
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Songs0fFailure on February 16, 2014, 04:09:59 PM
too bad. :(
disappointed in Sandisk.
btw. AMS removed AS352x\AS353x pages from site and there's no more Mobile Entertainment category in Products.
all hope in FiiO X1.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Nafania on February 17, 2014, 12:55:58 AM
too bad. :(
disappointed in Sandisk.
Can't understand why you disappointed?

To rockbox developers: is there a chance to see rockbox port for sansa clip sport? I can be a beta tester if needed, cause rockbox firmware has a lot great futures and improve usage of player.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Songs0fFailure on February 17, 2014, 07:34:02 AM
To rockbox developers: is there a chance to see rockbox port for sansa clip sport?
Quote
http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20140216
wodz: basically if this IS atj2127 rockbox for this little player will nott happen
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: yatto on March 01, 2014, 04:28:58 PM
So there will be no Rockbox for this Sansa Clip Sport ?

I'm soooo saaaad...

IF there is, one day, a Rockbox port on this Sansa Clip Sport, I will buy one and be the happiest man on earth ! It looks like the perfect MP3 player, it has a decent screen, the awesome Sandisk audio quality (or maybe not, if the internals components are not the same as the older ones), and an even better battery life than before !

EDIT: Read the IRC log. So this chip has 88KB of memory whereas Rockbox needs 2MB... And this is also the chip that reads the audio files, so we can assume that the audio quality will be more or less equivalent to GoGear Vibe (they use the same ATJ2127) ? Well it's not that bad, but we expected Sandisk to be as good as usual !
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: sockbox on March 01, 2014, 10:55:03 PM
should i stock up on the clip+ and clip zip while theyre still in production?
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on March 01, 2014, 11:14:51 PM
I think given the features the player has, it must have additional memory beyond what is stock on the SOC.  Or at least I cannot see how to decode Vorbis in less than about 350KB, not including the memory needed to update the color display and run the rest of the operating system.  However, as it is a very weird processor I do not see anyone completing a port anytime soon regardless of the memory. 
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: yatto on March 02, 2014, 06:06:40 AM
*desperate spark of hope* maybe there will be another material revision (just like there was for the Fuze V1 and V2) with the original ARM chip developers use to know...

Well, in case my Fuze breaks, I will buy me a Clip+ sooner or later (the buttons in the Zip seem more fragile than the Clip+)...
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: luisdent on May 27, 2014, 10:39:57 PM
No update on this? Seems like an awesome upgrade, as the battery is "sometimes" less than desirable. This gives you bigger battery and screen, while still being very portable and similar. Are the chances for rockboxing it still very slim? Or has anything changed recently?
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on May 27, 2014, 10:42:14 PM
No update on this? Seems like an awesome upgrade, as the battery is "sometimes" less than desirable. This gives you bigger battery and screen, while still being very portable and similar. Are the chances for rockboxing it still very slim? Or has anything changed recently?

Realistically, its a port to a completely new processor even if it is feasible.  Check back in a year and see if anyone is working on it. 
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: rna023 on July 18, 2014, 06:21:17 AM
Hi,
great pictures :) Would it be possible to get pictures of the bottom side of the PCB to see if there are other chips ?
No chips on other side, only buttons and screen
http://i59.tinypic.com/f4gpd1.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2z52hiu.jpg

and battery pic if needed
http://i61.tinypic.com/2mcg2m0.jpg


Is there any chips under the screen ?
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: McWeiss on July 18, 2014, 07:31:29 PM
Is there any chance in speeding up the rockbox firmware writing for the clip sport? like if anyone would be donating one or two or so?
if there is no chance to get rockbox on this thing in the near future is there any player similar to the clip zip which can handle rockbox? cannot think about any portable musicplayer without rockbox anymore. also still using my old ipod 6 with (an unstable? but nicely running) rockbox on it and love it! but that one is just too big for me to take it to the gym or running...

could anyone advise a player alike the clip zip, but maybe a bit more qualitative? I like it very much, but I have now 3 or 4 in two years (I need two at a time. One is recharging and the other in use). ok, lost 1 but on the others the buttons started to  react sloppy to any push etc after a while... maybe it is time for something new...

so give me ideas please :) tank you all
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: [Saint] on July 19, 2014, 01:21:49 AM
If any active developer were interested in the project, providing them with the device wouldn't be a problem.

As far as I understand the situation, which to my knowledge hasn't changed at all, it is that the general consensus is that the device is under-resourced for a Rockbox port. It is also a different architecture, which means very it would still be rather a lot of work even if someone thought a port was feasible.

What I can tell you, though, is that at this stage absolutely _nothing_ is happening on this front.
Not a single thing.

You could look at it this way. Being completely realistic, if a keen and experienced developer materialized *right now* and started working on a port to this device, you /might/ have something that vaguely resembles a consumer ready product somewhere in the range of "about a year from now, to possibly never".


[Saint]
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: ZincAlloy on July 19, 2014, 11:38:55 AM

As far as I understand the situation, which to my knowledge hasn't changed at all, it is that the general consensus is that the device is under-resourced for a Rockbox port. It is also a different architecture, which means very it would still be rather a lot of work even if someone thought a port was feasible.


The general consensus is that we don't know yet if the hardware is under-resourced for a Rockbox port.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: McWeiss on July 21, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
oh ok. thanks for your detailed answer. i guess then i will just buy a few more Sansa Clip Zips :/

any advice for an alternative rockboxable music player? size around the clip zip (maybe little more like clip sport) and preferably more durable... ?
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Bryanhoop on July 25, 2014, 01:16:35 PM
oh ok. thanks for your detailed answer. i guess then i will just buy a few more Sansa Clip Zips :/

any advice for an alternative rockboxable music player? size around the clip zip (maybe little more like clip sport) and preferably more durable... ?

Clip+
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Astrogoth on August 02, 2014, 03:34:02 PM


Clip Zip.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Yakuman on August 14, 2014, 09:58:42 PM
Clip Sport's higher battery life certainly attracts attention. Since the iPod is being phased out, the Sansa is the only major brand still being worked on, at least in the USA. I'm a little bothered that there's going to be a new Sansa player that will not get Rockbox. Soon we may be back to the days where there are no new players sold in stores that can load Rockbox, unless you count the still-unsupported Android version.

Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on August 14, 2014, 10:21:33 PM
Clip Sport's higher battery life certainly attracts attention. Since the iPod is being phased out, the Sansa is the only major brand still being worked on, at least in the USA. I'm a little bothered that there's going to be a new Sansa player that will not get Rockbox. Soon we may be back to the days where there are no new players sold in stores that can load Rockbox, unless you count the still-unsupported Android version.

Assuming its even possible to run complex software on the sport (which looks somewhat doubtful given how they had to strip down the normal sandisk OS to the bone just to get it working), you're welcome to work on a port.  Otherwise, no sense being bothered if you're not going to do something about it.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: __builtin on August 15, 2014, 01:15:09 PM
Clip Sport's higher battery life certainly attracts attention. Since the iPod is being phased out, the Sansa is the only major brand still being worked on, at least in the USA. I'm a little bothered that there's going to be a new Sansa player that will not get Rockbox. Soon we may be back to the days where there are no new players sold in stores that can load Rockbox, unless you count the still-unsupported Android version.



There will still be plenty of used and new iPods on ebay and elsewhere.

Also, I don't think Sandisk will only sell the clip sport, they will most likely sell the Fuze+, Clip+ and Clip Zip along with it, just like they do now.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Yakuman on September 09, 2014, 07:37:59 PM
Otherwise, no sense being bothered if you're not going to do something about it.

Well, if Rockbox only exists for developers who are willing to only use hardware built in the previous decade, I guess you're right.   
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: __builtin on September 09, 2014, 07:51:06 PM
Otherwise, no sense being bothered if you're not going to do something about it.

Well, if Rockbox only exists for developers who are willing to only use hardware built in the previous decade, I guess you're right.   

Truth is, DAPs are declining in popularity. :(
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on September 09, 2014, 08:24:35 PM
Otherwise, no sense being bothered if you're not going to do something about it.

Well, if Rockbox only exists for developers who are willing to only use hardware built in the previous decade, I guess you're right.

Rockbox exists to run on whichever devices people want to port it to.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: [Saint] on September 09, 2014, 10:36:41 PM
Well, if Rockbox only exists for developers who are willing to only use hardware built in the previous decade, I guess you're right.   

Is this another "everyone else but me should do the work that I want done" rant?

Sure seems like it.

If everyone took that attitude, this project wouldn't ever exist.

Fact is, Rockbox developers work on what they want to, when they want to, because it interests them. They're not here to meet demands or be chastised because they're not currently working on <insert_device_here>.

If Rockbox on a Clip Sport is so dear to you, make it so, and then come and tell us we were wrong.


[Saint]
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Astrogoth on September 11, 2014, 07:52:54 PM
The Zip and + are out of production. When sources of used/referb Clips dry up you will then see interest in porting RB over to the Sport. That should be shortly.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: asim0 on September 20, 2014, 06:36:12 PM
The Zip and + are out of production.

I don't think so:
http://www.sandisk.com/products/music-video-players/

And my guess is they won't be anytime soon since they are still best sellers on e.g. amazon (in particular the +)
http://www.google.fr/url?url=http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-MP3-Players/zgbs/electronics/1264866011

Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: [Saint] on September 21, 2014, 05:15:38 PM
While I'm not taking any particular side here, I feel I should point out that:

"Is currently available for purchase" != "still in production".

It would not surprise me one bit if SanDisk had a mountain of these little turds sitting in a storage unit somewhere.
In fact, they're obliged to, to honour warranty claims.

You should also note that the _overwhelming_ majority of the devices in the Amazon link you supplied are factory refurbished models. While that doesn't necessarily imply they're out of production, its a far cry from even reasonably recently when refurbished devices were virtually unheard of. Now they outnumber new devices (at least as represented from third party sales) by an order of magnitude.

I don't think its safe to say that these devices are still in active production, at all.


Regarding the Sport, the sources of new/used/refurbished devices drying up isn't going to have an appreciable impact on porting to this device.
It really says something when all of our interested active developers look at it and jointly decide that a port is infeasible.

Actually, it really says the most when SanDisk had to absolutely butcher their original firmware and strip it back to the bare metal in order to get it to run on the device.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the fact that a port to this device, if it were even possible (and there's a debate around that) at all, would be a MASSIVE amount of work for a sub-par end result. This device doesn't have (as far as we're aware) the capabilities to do very much with Rockbox at all.

If we humour ourselves and assume this is possible, Rockbox on this device would be a VERY different creature to what you're used to.

I posit theme support would be non-existent (we would overflow the known available resources with a single bitmap backdrop, let alone the two fullscreen bitmaps the theme engine keeps in RAM full-time).
Album art (embedded or otherwise) would likely be completely out of the question also.
I'm not certain but its possible that we'd lose the ability to do realtime playback of several codecs.

The long and the short of it is that at this stage no one is interested in undertaking several hundred man hours work to come out with something that is largely inferior when there are many other much more interesting and capable devices to work with.

You are of course free to discover this yourself, and you are encouraged to.

I shall be looking forward to your submission proving me wrong.


[Saint]
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: newuser11 on October 18, 2014, 08:28:40 PM
wow this really sucks. ive been using this shit for like 6 years. if i had any developing skills id be working on this. all i really care about is the sound options. i went to replace my clip on warranty and this is all they had left.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Strife89 on February 12, 2015, 10:21:32 PM
wow this really sucks. ive been using this shit for like 6 years. if i had any developing skills id be working on this. all i really care about is the sound options. i went to replace my clip on warranty and this is all they had left.

SanDisk - and only SanDisk, from what I can tell - seemingly still has new-in-box Clip Zips for sale (http://shop.sandisk.com/store/sdiskus/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.234644800?ClickID=dk2wx0tm02htxm20xtnworrxbnsxxokokhxx) - remnants of the "mountain" [Saint] mentioned. EDIT: Annnnnd they're gone, but some might still be in circulation. (http://www.sandisk.com/products/music-video-players/clip-zip/?capacity=8GB)

The sad truth is that smartphones have almost totally sent dedicated PMPs to the fate of the dodo, and I wager that most of us have accepted that the used market is the best bet for replacement units - whether they run Rockbox or not.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: Astrogoth on February 16, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
Agreed, with one small issue. The current Android spec doesn't include Micro SD cards and therefore neither do most Android hardware makers. My own Moto X has no MSD slots and I sure miss them. Until that changes there won't be a big swell in HiFi music on phones or tablets. 
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on February 16, 2015, 01:06:42 PM
Agreed, with one small issue. The current Android spec doesn't include Micro SD cards and therefore neither do most Android hardware makers.

There is no spec (one way or the other) for sd cards, but I think more devices than not support them.  Its mainly just moto and nexus devices that don't.  Buy one that has SD if you want it.
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: [Saint] on February 16, 2015, 01:56:59 PM
The Internet is my sdcard.

Fact is, physical sdcards in mobile need to die. The next thing that needs to die is emulated sdcard support in Android for legacy support. This, in time, will happen.

Best to get used to that now.

I really don't want to get into a heated discussion in a thread that has no business hosting such a discussion, so I guess you'll just either have to take me on my word that its a hilariously bad idea for a number of reasons, or...don't.



[Saint]
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: greatjack on November 17, 2017, 01:31:32 PM
Sorry to bring this up again, but i saw in irc that wodz has been working on atj port. I though such a thing was not possible due to ram constraints, can someone clarify?
Title: Re: Sandisk Clip Sport
Post by: saratoga on November 17, 2017, 01:42:43 PM
ATJ is a family with a large number of processors in it.  wodz was probably talking about a port to a device with more memory than the clip sport.