Rockbox Technical Forums

Support and General Use => User Interface and Voice => Topic started by: XavierB on October 04, 2011, 05:39:34 PM

Title: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 04, 2011, 05:39:34 PM
I searched the forum and I read the manual
http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-640004.4 (http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-640004.4)
but I couldn't find an answer.

First a link to my now closed bug report:
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12297 (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12297)

At first I thought that it was obvious that a missing "View Catalog" submenu equals missing playlist functionality. Now I'm not so sure anymore, and before I post another bug report I'll just ask here in the forum:

So, how do I play a saved playlist in the latest Rockbox build (r30712+) with a Sansa Clip+?
When I call the "Context Menu" with the select button it offers me i.a. the "Playlist catalogue". Selecting this submenu it offers me then two options:

1. Add to Playlist --> No, thanks. I want to substitute my loaded playlist with a saved one. Don't want to add playlists to my already loaded one.

2. Add to New Playlist --> Now I have to chose a name for my NEW Playlist. No, thanks, again. I want to play my saved playlists, not create new ones.

The only work-around I have found so far is to press the home button, enter the file browser, looking for the folder playlists, open this folder, chose the saved playlist I want to play, open this playlist and, finally, chose the first song to play. If that sounds cumbersome, that's because it really is in comparison to the 3.9.1 version.

So, is there any shortcut or did I missed something in the latest build of Rockbox on how to play in a convenient way my saved playlists? Or might it be indeed a bug?
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: AlexP on October 05, 2011, 05:09:33 AM
Where are you saving your playlists?  Unless you save them to the catalogue then they won't be there.  If you saved them somewhere else, then just navigate to them and click on them.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 05, 2011, 07:15:45 AM
Thanks for replying!

I save my playlists to the the folder "<disk>\Playlists". This folder is on the same disk as "<disk>\.rockbox".

Quote
Unless you save them to the catalogue then they won't be there.
I don't understand this. Is there another standard folder where I should save my playlists? Or do I have to do extra steps do register my playlists with Rockbox? I rarely ever update and use the database of Rockbox since I use almost exclusively my own playlists. I just updated the database with the latest firmware and it didn't help

I'm quite surprised that I'm seemingly the only one with this problem. I'll try to explain again, and this time VERY extensively what my problem is.

With Rockbox v.3.9.1 loading a saved playlist goes like this:

1. Long press on the select button ---> Calling the Context Menu
2. Press down ---> highlighting the "Playlist Catalogue"
3. short click on the select button ---> enter the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu
4. short click on the select button ---> enter the already highlighted "View Catalogue" submenu
5. highlight the playlist I want to load
6. short click on the select button ---> Current playlist gets substituted with loaded one and the first song of the list is played; returns automatically to the Playing Screen.

With the latest Rockbox build it goes like this:

1. Long press on the select button ---> Calling the Context Menu
2. Press down ---> highlighting the "Playlist Catalogue"
3. short click on the select button ---> enter the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu
4. Dead end ---> See my first post on this thread and my bug report.

Workaround 1
01. short press on the home button ---> Calling "Main Menu"
02. Press 4x down ---> highlights "Palylists Catalogue" menu
06. short click on the select button ---> enter the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu
07. highlight the playlist I want to load
08. short click on the select button ---> playlist doesn't get loaded and played; instead the content of the playlist is shown.
09. short click on the select button ---> Finally! (Well, not really...) Plays the highlighted song, which is the first and replaces the current loaded playlist with the new one. Returns one screen back to the "Playlists Catlogue"  submenu
10. Press up 4x ---> highlight "Now Playing"
14. short click on the select button ---> Finally returning to the Playing Screen, regaining playback controls

Workaround 2
01. short press on the home button ---> Calling "Main Menu"
02. Press up 2x up ---> highlights "Files" menu
04. short click on the select button ---> Enter file browser
05. In my case press 7x down ---> highlight "Playlists" folder
13. short click on the select button ---> Enter "Playlists" folder
14. highlight the playlist I want to load
15. short click on the select button ---> playlist doesn't get loaded and played; instead the content of the playlist is shown.
16. short click on the select button ---> Finally! (Well, not really...) Plays the highlighted song, which is the first and replaces the current loaded playlist with the new one. Returns one screen back to the "Playlists" folder
17. press left 2x ---> getting back to Main Menu
19. press down 2x ---> highlight "Now Playing"
20. short click on the select button ---> Finally returning to the Playing Screen, regaining playback controls

And THAT's my problem! 6 steps against 14 or 20 to change such a simple thing like a playlist. So where is the "View Catalogue" submenu? Got it renamed/replaced? And how do I change a playlist in convenient and fast way?


Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: [Saint] on October 05, 2011, 11:39:03 PM
Move your saved playlists into /.rockbox/Playlists/ and you should be able to launch them from the playlist catalogue.


[Saint]
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 04:26:36 AM
Quote
Move your saved playlists into /.rockbox/Playlists/ and you should be able to launch them from the playlist catalogue.

Moved the folder there and it didn't work. Context Menu still misses the "View Catalogue" entry, still making it a dead end. Furthermore going to "Main Menu" ---> "Playlist Catalogue" (Workaround 1) shows me the error message "No Files".

As I understand it the /.rockbox folder is a place were one should keep his own files out. That's why it is hidden in the file browser, except when Rockbox is told to show all files.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 04:42:04 AM
[st.] stuffed up (again :/ ). /Playlists is where the playlist catalouge looks. You can however choose any folder you want (should be a "set as playlist cataloge" context menu item on folder in the file browser)
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 04:51:10 AM
Already reverted it back. But doesn't help me with my problem.

Is there a quick way to load a saved playlist (like in Rockbox v3.9.1) or not?

Thanks!

Quote
stuffed up (again :/ )

Get well soon!  :)
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 05:32:34 AM
yes, use the "playlist catalogue" menu item, if that isnt working then you are doing something wrong. past your config.cfg here
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 05:44:17 AM
Here it is. (It's  Sansa Clip+, btw.)


Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 05:51:51 AM
and you're saving .m3u and .m3u8 files into /Playlists ????
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 06:15:33 AM
Quote
and you're saving .m3u and .m3u8 files into /Playlists ?
Aaah, the ambiguity when communicating over message boards. I don't know how to answer this question...  ???
I'll just do it in a Lieutenant Commander Data-Style  ;)

Yes, I save my playlist as .m3u8 in the folder <disk>/Playlists. As far as I know Rockbox doesn't support other playlist (unicode) formats. [http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildap1.html#x16-333000A (http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildap1.html#x16-333000A)]

I attached one of such files as an example. I had to camouflage it as a .txt file to be able to upload it. (Real file name:"Example.m3u8")  It contains Hangul; Linux user shouldn't have a problem visualising it corrrectly, Windows user might see blocks.

Although I might start sound like a broken record  ;) Rockbox v3.9.1 does not have this problem, in my case.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 06:19:47 AM
I don't know what you're doing, but you're doing something wrong. the playlist cataloge main menu item should put you in the /Playlists folder which will show your .m3u/8 files
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 06:38:14 AM
When I go Home Button ---> Main Menu ---> Playlist Catalogue it does indeed show me my playlists. I have no problem with that.

My problem is that loading a saved playlist took me with Rockbox v.3.9.1 about 6 individual steps (an about 2 seconds in time) while now with the latest build it takes 14 to 20 steps at best (taking considerable more time for navigation and concentration.) I have it described extensively here in this post:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28974.msg185092.html#msg185092 (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28974.msg185092.html#msg185092)

One reason for that is that the "View Catalogue" entry is missing in the "Context menu ---> Playlist Catalogue" submenu.

The second reason is that Rockbox latest build does not play the playlist at once but shows the content of the playlist first.

And the third reason is that after loading a playlist I have to click my way maze-like back to Playing Screen in order to regain playback control instead of being prompted there right away.

All very detailed explained in this post:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28974.msg185092.html#msg185092 (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28974.msg185092.html#msg185092)

But thanks for your time.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 06:47:32 AM
OH! ok, yeah, forget it. the playlist changes made them more understandable and more useful for just about everyone else. you can always use the .m3u context menu to play now instead of opening it first
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 07:07:46 AM
I guess there is some major miscommunication going on this board. I could do a Youtube-video (if I had a proper camera) but I don't think it wouldn't add anything new to what I've sad on this post before:

http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28974.msg185092.html#msg185092 (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28974.msg185092.html#msg185092)

I know it's a long post. But I hope someone takes his time to read it. I'm not a native English speaker, so should there be anything unclear, ambiguous or not detailed enough (in the post I mentioned and linked, here, in this one) please inform me. Thanks.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: skip252 on October 06, 2011, 07:11:51 AM
You still won't be able to open playlists from the WPS context, menu which is what this is about. The "View Playlist Catalog" menu item has been removed from the WPS context menu. There is no way I can find now to access saved playlists from the WPS regardless of save location. All access to the playlist catalog seems to be from the Main Menu now. A part of browsing and playing has been changed without that change being reflected in the manual.

From FS#12297
Quote
Closed by  Jonathan Gordon (jdgordon)
Tuesday, 04 October 2011, 07:49 GMT+2
Reason for closing:  Not a Bug
Additional comments about closing:  This isnt a bug. The "Playlist Catalogue" main menu item is that "View catalog" used to do. It should not be lnked to the wps context menu

The "View Catalog" menu item still shows as existing in the manual but it has in fact been removed.

http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-520004.3.3

Quote
Playlist catalogue

View catalogue.
    This lists all playlists that are part of the Playlist catalogue. You can load a new playlist directly from this list.

Add to playlist.
    Adds the currently playing file to a playlist. Select the playlist you want the file to be added to and it will get appended to that playlist.

Add to new playlist.
    Similar to the previous entry this will add the currently playing track to a playlist. You need to enter a name for the new playlist first.


As this appears to be a permanent change it would seem that the manual should reflect that. That would eliminate any future confusion as to why access to the Playlist Catalog from the WPS  context menu exists in the Release build but not the current builds.

It won't much matter to me as the removal of that item renders any future upgrades moot in my case. The ability to change  playlists with a few blind button presses is an essential element of why I use Rockbox. Now that's gone I'll have to stay with older builds if I continue to use Rockbox.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 07:17:24 AM
yes, the manual is out of date and iirc there is a bug to fix it. playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: Llorean on October 06, 2011, 07:23:35 AM
To explain it a bit more clearly:

What you're running into are some changes that were intentionally made. The goal was to make the playlist catalog a little less confusing to people encountering it the first time. This does require a few extra button presses, though it shouldn't be as many as you're presenting. It shouldn't be a "maze like" way back to the WPS. The direct shortcut there should work, and if it doesn't, the main menu (which has a link to the WPS) should be a single button away. If neither of these works, it sounds like there are still bugs somewhere that need working out.

It's quite unlikely the playlist catalog is going to go back to working like it used to, but if you can narrow down actual bugs like keymap issues, rather than complaints about the redesign, it's possible they may be addressed.

Unfortunately when the new layout was designed, the question "what could people do before that they can't do now" doesn't seem to have been thoroughly explored by the author of the update.

As to a manual update, there's a growing trend of "I'll write the patch, and post a bug report expecting someone else to document the changes I made" which is what results in this sort of thing. Unfortunately there's rarely any pressure on the patch author to follow through and finish the manual update if someone else doesn't do it for him or her.

yes, the manual is out of date and iirc there is a bug to fix it. playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.
This is your personal opinion, but since the "context" is "Playback" and the playlist is "list of things to play back" it's pretty reasonable for people to expect it there. At the very least, one might want to insert the currently playing song (definitely context relevant) into another playlist.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 09:19:59 AM
@skip252: THANK YOU VERY MUCH for actually reading my post.

Quote
It won't much matter to me as the removal of that item renders any future upgrades moot in my case. The ability to change  playlists with a few blind button presses is an essential element of why I use Rockbox. Now that's gone I'll have to stay with older builds if I continue to use Rockbox.
So this means I'm not alone with this annoyance.

I hoped by opening this thread someone could tell me a quicker way to load my playlist or, at least, draw the developers to attention that there is (in my point of view) a ergonomics problem.

Quote
playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.
I don't care if it shouldn't. (BTW, "Add to playlist" and "Add to new playlist" shouldn't be there, either) The only thing I wish for is a fast and efficient way (means, the least amount of key pressing possible) to load my playlist. If it goes via Context Menu or Main Menu is secondary.

Quote
yes, the manual is out of date
Quote
As to a manual update, there's a growing trend of "I'll write the patch, and post a bug report expecting someone else to document the changes I made" which is what results in this sort of thing. Unfortunately there's rarely any pressure on the patch author to follow through and finish the manual update if someone else doesn't do it for him or her.
I don't expect the manual to be updated for every current build. If it represents the stable build (and it does) I'm happy with it. Before loading a new build I usually try to go through the "Log Messages" of the recent builds. The IRC logs are to cumbersome for a "normal" Rockbox user like me to comb through for information. This usually works for me.

Quote
It shouldn't be a "maze like" way back to the WPS. The direct shortcut there should work,[...]
What is the "direct shortcut" to the WPS on the Clip+? Is it the the Home Button? Doesn't work for me. I end up one screen back or at the Main Menu at best, and still have to look on the screen and do some clicks to select "Now Playing" and therefore returning to WPS. With Rockbox v.3.9.1 I come straight back to WPS after loading a playlist.

Quote
It's quite unlikely the playlist catalog is going to go back to working like it used to, but if you can narrow down actual bugs like keymap issues, rather than complaints about the redesign, it's possible they may be addressed.
@Llorean: Is this directed to me? I just saw that one day the "View Catalogue" was missing from the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu in the Context Menu and it didn't come back. Still, it was present in the stable build. There was no information about the removal in the builds log (I ignored the the IRC, see above) and the forum, so I thought it might be a bug. JdGordon closed my bug reported with exactly that reason that you dismissed as his "personal opinion".

And I do consider complains about ergonomics and design as a kind of a bug report. It may be not so obvious to "recreate" since you have to temporarily put your personal believes and convictions of a perfect design aside and adopt the view of the "complainer". Hell, it took 16(!) posts on this thread until someone tried to read and understand what I was trying to say! (Is my English really THAT bad?!) If it gets addressed is another question but at least my opinion is out there and visible for others who share a similar if not even the same opinion.

I never would have imagined that the developers would have killed such an elegant way to load a playlist and replace/leave it with something that reminds me more of a clickfest. (And, yes, Sansa Clip+ make hearable click sounds.) Again, if someone knows a quicker way to load playlist or a build that addresses this problem, please a message on this board.

Untill then I'll stick to the version 3.9.1 and keep a copy of it on my hard drive, in case this "improvement" makes into a stable release.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: Llorean on October 06, 2011, 09:29:47 AM
What is the "direct shortcut" to the WPS on the Clip+?
It's in the manual. I believe it's hold Home and hit another key, I'm not sure what.


Quote
@Llorean: Is this directed to me? I just saw that one day the "View Catalogue" was missing from the "Playlist Catalogue" submenu in the Context Menu and it didn't come back. Still, it was present in the stable build. There was no information about the removal in the builds log (I ignored the the IRC, see above) and the forum, so I thought it might be a bug. JdGordon closed my bug reported with exactly that reason that you dismissed as his "personal opinion".
The stable build is only updated once every few months. If every change were reflected in it, there would be no point in having it. The SVN log on the front page reflects current changes. No need to use IRC.

Quote
And I do consider complains about ergonomics and design as a kind of a bug report.
Desiring changes in the layout or ergonomics is a feature request. Bugs are when code does not work as the developers claim it should/does. In this case there is a bug, but technically it's apparently in the manual if the current versions of the manual do not describe the current versions of Rockbox.

Quote
I never would have imagined that the developers would have killed such an elegant way to load a playlist and replace/leave it with something that reminds me more of a clickfest. (And, yes, Sansa Clip+ make hearable click sounds.) Again, if someone knows a quicker way to load playlist or a build that addresses this problem, please a message on this board.
Playlists can literally be loaded from anywhere in the file browser. And clicking on them in the file browser should still just "play" them I believe. So if you keep a folder of playlists, turn "follow playlist" off, and click on one of them, you should be in the WPS. Once there, clicking "select" will show you that folder, and clicking a new one will launch it. This should result in faster switching between playlists than even the old context menu method.

Quote
Untill then I'll stick to the version 3.9.1 and keep a copy of it on my hard drive, in case this "improvement" makes into a stable release.
It will be in the next stable release, and all future ones, unless it's reverted.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 09:59:23 AM
Thanks for replying, Llorean.

Quote
Quote
Quote from: XavierB on Today at 09:19:59 AM
What is the "direct shortcut" to the WPS on the Clip+?
It's in the manual. I believe it's hold Home and hit another key, I'm not sure what.
Just found another lengthy thread about this feature  :)
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28702.0.html (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28702.0.html)

Quote
Desiring changes in the layout or ergonomics is a feature request.
Yes, I know. I never would do a feature request on the tracker. I genuinely thought it was bug, that was caused e.g. by a typo or something similar in the source code.

Quote
Playlists can literally be loaded from anywhere in the file browser. And clicking on them in the file browser should still just "play" them I believe. So if you keep a folder of playlists, turn "follow playlist" off, and click on one of them, you should be in the WPS. Once there, clicking "select" will show you that folder, and clicking a new one will launch it.[...]
Doesn't work for me. Using r30720 build right now, "follow playlist" is off (just checked), still opens the content of a playlist instead of playing it and returning to the WPS.

Quote
It will be in the next stable release, and all future ones, unless it's reverted.
Quote
This should result in faster switching between playlists than even the old context menu method.
I hope there is a way to change the order of the Main Menu entries, because right now I have to click 4x down to get to the playlists catalogue in comparison to 1x down + 1x press select in the Context Menu. Can't see how it makes it faster.

But thanks again for your efforts and time!  :)
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: Llorean on October 06, 2011, 10:10:47 AM
Quote
It will be in the next stable release, and all future ones, unless it's reverted.
Quote
This should result in faster switching between playlists than even the old context menu method.
I hope there is a way to change the order of the Main Menu entries, because right now I have to click 4x down to get to the playlists catalogue in comparison to 1x down + 1x press select in the Context Menu. Can't see how it makes it faster.
You're rearranging what I've said. I didn't claim the new layout should be faster. I claimed using it via the file browser should be faster, which was something you could've also done with older versions of Rockbox but didn't seem to be aware of.

Apparently selecting it in the file browser doesn't work. That was my misunderstanding. I don't use playlists this way, and before the change was implemented I thought I was told that in the catalog, select would browse the contents of the list, but in the file browser functionality would remain as it had before the change. This isn't apparently the case.

It should still be possible to play a playlist rather quickly by using "select" to open its folder, selecting a playlist, selecting the first song, then hitting the "return to WPS" combo.
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: JdGordon on October 06, 2011, 05:50:18 PM
yes, the manual is out of date and iirc there is a bug to fix it. playlist catalog never should have been in the wps context menu.
That should have said "the "view playlist catalogue" should never have been in the WPS context menu as it is in no way relevant to the current playing track, the other 2 items in that submenu absolutly should be there.

playlists were changed to make them more like folders, the change added 1 click to how to start the playlist while at te same time opening up a bunch of use cases.
The short way to get to your playlists, like you keep crying about, is "main menu > playlist catalog"
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: XavierB on October 06, 2011, 10:53:27 PM
Quote
The short way to get to your playlists, like you keep crying about, is "main menu > playlist catalog"

Finally I understand why you are reacting so strongly about my complaints. YOU were the one who introduced these "improvements" or at least it references both times you as author. Although I don't know how much of a group work this is.

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/11808 (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/11808)

http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=30177 (http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=30177)

It also coincides with the time I started to miss the functional feature.

So we end up with with a database that acts similar to a file browser (no problem with that, but I rarely use it), we have the file browser itself which also can be used to play files and folders (again no problem with that,  I use it quite often for podcasts) and, finally, we have playlists which now behaves similar to a file browser.

3 file browsers in Rockbox but no playlist functionality and expected behaviour like in the OF of the Sansa Clip/v2/+, Winamp, Window Media Player, Foobar2000, VLC, etc., etc., etc...

OH! ok, yeah, forget it. the playlist changes made them more understandable and more useful for just about everyone else. you can always use the .m3u context menu to play now instead of opening it first
Yeah, right...

Hilmar Pétursson would be proud of you...
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/ (http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/)

...or maybe not
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672&sp_rid=MzA1NTUxODk0MwS2&sp_mid=37156067 (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672&sp_rid=MzA1NTUxODk0MwS2&sp_mid=37156067)
Title: Re: How to play a saved playlist in the newest Rockbox build?
Post by: chrisjj on January 06, 2014, 12:03:17 PM
Xavier, I have the same problem. Thanks for your detailed analysis. And Well Done for the amazing patience you have exhibited in this thread.