Rockbox Technical Forums

Rockbox Development => New Ports => Topic started by: PinguinXY on March 11, 2008, 10:13:17 AM

Title: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 11, 2008, 10:13:17 AM
This will be a new Thread for the porting of Rockbox to the GoGear 3125

I take any Advice I can get! Fee free to help me since this is my first porting :-D I hope I don't make any mistakes!

Step 1:
The scan of the Hardware:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/82/4919982/1280_3963396362633135.jpg
(It's just a photo because I have difficulties to take away the case)

Step 2:
List of components (and discription):

-Hynix KOR HY27UU08AG5M-TPCB 744A

-Chip-Set: SIGMATEL STMP3504 LAE-SB6 T05030 0738 CN
I think It's the CPU... but I'm not very sure
Documentation:
http://www.sigmatel.com/products/portable/audio/stmp3500.aspx
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SigmaTelSTMP3xxx

-FM tuner: TEA5767

-LCD: Giantplus
I don't know which model it is but here you have a picture:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/82/4919982/1280_6662643763323533.jpg
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: markun on March 11, 2008, 10:18:00 AM
Great to see another port! I would advise you to place all the info in a wiki page instead of the forum so it doesn't get lost.

One other component I see is the FM tuner: TEA5767
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 11, 2008, 10:21:35 AM
It's Sigmatel-based; the chip is a SMTP3054. More details here (http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SigmaTelSTMP3xxx).

We need that you get a picture of the other side of the mainboard as well, because there may be more chips on the back.

Like you were told in IRC, you have to be willing to open your device entire to get shots. So you'll have to try and get the board out of the casing.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 11, 2008, 10:32:02 AM
yeap! Thank you both!

I will try to get it of but the problem is a crew at the back side... but I can't find the head to get it unscrewed... :-/ But I will give my very best because the Philips Firmware sucks^^


EDIT:
managed to take away the hole case:-D the screw was hidden under the reset-Button :-P

Now the show must go one :-)

*updated scanes will be coming*
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 11, 2008, 11:13:31 AM
Another step you should also take is getting a firmware updater from the Philips website and see how the update process is done. This can provide lots of good information as well.

I should also take a moment to remind you to please follow forum guidelines and not double post. If you have anything additional to say and no one has responded to your previous post, then use the "Modify" button to add to your post.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 11, 2008, 11:43:36 AM
Okay... than I have to get my mothers notebook because the updater is an executable wich isn't running on Linux :-/
But I will put it on my TO-Do-List


P.S.: sorry for double posting :-|
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 11, 2008, 12:15:23 PM
I found a datasheet for the TEA5767 FM chip, and will post it up on the wiki page.

Also, I'll edit the page a little bit and make it look a little more professional. You can follow along with what I'm doing so you can see how to edit the wiki. ;)
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: mcuelenaere on March 11, 2008, 01:47:43 PM

I found a datasheet for the TEA5767 FM chip, and will post it up on the wiki page.

Also, I'll edit the page a little bit and make it look a little more professional. You can follow along with what I'm doing so you can see how to edit the wiki. ;)

BTW, there should be a (working) TEA5767 driver in Rockbox, so you (normally) don't have to code that one anymore :)
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 11, 2008, 01:53:58 PM
Yes, amiconn pointed that out to me on IRC. That handles one small portion, at least.

It's going to be getting a free toolchain for the SigmaTel chipset that'll be the real show-stopper, though.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 11, 2008, 02:07:45 PM
I also found out something about the Display. It's made by Giantplus... Picture's coming soon. :-D I have to get the Scanner running under Linux *blow away the dust from the top* xD

But here are sum IDs which are on the LCD:

H-KLM167E71-1B-071103-R

and

KFM167E71-1A/41
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 11, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
If possible, can you scan the back of the LCD? I tried searching Giantplus' site, but can't find the LCD model we're looking for.

Also, look at the chips on the back of the device and post what you find on the wiki page.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: saratoga on March 11, 2008, 02:19:36 PM
Its great that you guys are interested, but without a compiler, I think you're just wasting your time.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 11, 2008, 02:27:06 PM
There are no devices than the Buttons for the navigation on the Back and the LC Display.... But I'm working on it...

I think in about 20minutes the Scanner should work :-D
and after that I will post the Images in the wiki and look for an firmware upgrade :-)


Edit:

hmm I sent a mail to Sigmatel and got THIS replay... -.-

Quote
I am sorry but we only provide datasheets to qualified customers and distributors after appropriate legal documentation is in place.
 
Best Rgds,
Lin McKissick
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 12, 2008, 08:12:52 AM

hmm I sent a mail to Sigmatel and got THIS replay... -.-

Quote
I am sorry but we only provide datasheets to qualified customers and distributors after appropriate legal documentation is in place.
 
Best Rgds,
Lin McKissick



That's to be expected. Not many chip manufacturers will just hand you datasheets if you ask. Most of them won't even let you see one without signing a whacking huge NDA, which effectively renders asking for datasheets moot, since we won't be able to read them. (NDAs usually state that you have to keep the information in datasheets confidential and not share them with anyone else.)

Also, as I stated above, having no free toolchain for the SigmaTel chips is going to be a big problem. Unless you're willing to pay around $12,000, and be the only one allowed to use the kit, there's not many options we have.

However, with Freescale Semiconductor recently purchasing SigmaTel, things may change; details on that are here (http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1103566&highlight=) if you're interested.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 13, 2008, 03:38:20 PM
thank you for introducing me into another part of capitalism :-D I think I'll have to pay for the Datasheet... 12$ isn't too much... especialy now... ( I think one € is aboeut 1.5$)

The Partt with Freescale I don't understand... What does this contract me to us?
(I'm not a native Englishspeaker and didn't understand everything :-/ )


EDIT:
I read the wiki on how to work for a new port several times now... and also the Wiki PortingHowTo but I don't understand what I exectly have to do after I found everything about the Hardware... Do I only have to take an existing Built and change the values? Or do I have to write a totaly new Firmware?
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: saratoga on March 13, 2008, 04:44:37 PM

I read the wiki on how to work for a new port several times now... and also the Wiki PortingHowTo but I don't understand what I exectly have to do after I found everything about the Hardware... Do I only have to take an existing Built and change the values? Or do I have to write a totaly new Firmware?


You'll have to write drivers for all the hardware thats not already supported in rockbox.  Of course, to do that, you would need to get a compiler first.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 13, 2008, 04:58:36 PM
okay and where do I get a compiler? I just know the Linux Compiler :-D


btw. Is anywhere a List of all supported Hardware?
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: saratoga on March 13, 2008, 05:07:32 PM

okay and where do I get a compiler? I just know the Linux Compiler :-D


As I said above, it would appear that one does not exist, making this step literally impossible.


btw. Is anywhere a List of all supported Hardware?


Check the target tree in the rockbox source.  Most of it is there.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: AlexP on March 14, 2008, 03:34:25 AM

thank you for introducing me into another part of capitalism :-D I think I'll have to pay for the Datasheet... 12$ isn't too much... especialy now... ( I think one € is aboeut 1.5$)

The Partt with Freescale I don't understand... What does this contract me to us?
(I'm not a native Englishspeaker and didn't understand everything :-/ )


In the English speaking world, the comma (,) is not the decimal sign, the full stop (or point, or period) (.) is.  Therefore $12,000 is 12 thousand dollars, not 12 dollars.  For you it would be written $12.000,00 - we write $12,000.00

There is another problem - even if they let you pay for it, it would be under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA).  This usually means that you cannot tell anyone else what is in the datasheet, nor publish any code written as a result of information in the datasheet.  Therefore it remains useless to us!


okay and where do I get a compiler? I just know the Linux Compiler :-D


You need a compiler that will compile code for the CPU architecture of your port, e.g. X86, ARM, m68k, etc...

Unfortunately there does not seem to be a free compiler for the architecture in your player, and therefore this project is essentially impossible.  It doesn't matter how much code you write if you cannot compile it.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 14, 2008, 05:10:20 AM
Do you think that it could happen anytime that we get a compiler or do I have to pray for a wonder?

(next time I will first look into your Database for a player and then buy one :-D )
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: gevaerts on March 14, 2008, 05:21:09 AM
Compilers are like rockbox ports unfortunately. They don't fall out of the sky, and I guess the compiler people have the same datasheet-getting problems.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 14, 2008, 06:48:32 AM
 ::) :-/ It's not fair... they supply us with bad firmware and a lack of codecs for our players and we aren't allowed to make more than using this stupid crap...
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 14, 2008, 07:14:35 AM
I'm sorry, but whining about it isn't going to make a free toolchain magically pop out of thin air. That's the reality of it all, and there are a great many Rockbox ports planned and started by people that go nowhere for one reason or another.

Twelve thousand US dollars is a LOT of money, but that money is the only way you can get that toolchain. But it's still a waste of time and money because you can't share the toolchain with us after you purchased it. All of the existing ports we have now happened because there are freely available toolchains to allow us to code for those platforms (SH-1 for the Archos players, Coldfire for the iriver H100, H300 and iAUDIO, ARM for the iPods, Sansas, H10, and Gigabeats, and TCC for the Cowon D2 and some others).

It's not our fault that SigmaTel and Motorola kept the documents and tools for the SigmaTel chipsets a secret. In fact, almost no company will ever share internal documents with open source developers. One exception was Austria Microsystems, the designers of the audio chipset in the Sansa e200 series. While there are datasheets for a lot of the hardware in the non PortalPlayer targets, we had to reverse engineer a few things, and while it's possible to reverse engineer the STMP chips, compiling for them will not happen without that toolchain.

(EDIT: BigBambi pointed out my mistake with available datasheets... thanks!)
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: AlexP on March 14, 2008, 07:21:37 AM

It's not our fault that SigmaTel and Motorola kept the documents and tools for the SigmaTel chipsets a secret. In fact, almost no company will ever share internal documents with open source developers. One exception was Austria Microsystems, the designers of the audio chipset in the Sansa e200 series. We had to reverse engineer nearly everything we worked on, and while it's possible to reverse engineer the STMP chips, compiling for them will not happen without that toolchain.


There are datasheets available for much of the hardware in the non-portalplayer targets....
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 14, 2008, 07:23:52 AM
/me quietly goes to get more coffee to caffeinate his brain cells  ;)
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: GodEater on March 14, 2008, 09:42:36 AM
Also, I think of the manufacturers that have proven helpful, Austrian Microsystems were the *least* helpful, since they made people go to their offices in person, and STILL they had to sign an NDA to get at the documents.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: LambdaCalculus on March 14, 2008, 09:49:59 AM
Ahh, yes! I remember that now.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 15, 2008, 11:07:46 AM
So do you REALY think it is possible to port rock box on a GoGear? I am not familiar with this kind of development... You need to write in clear and easy to understand sentences :-D I am a noob in this scene xD :) :P
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: AlexP on March 15, 2008, 11:56:37 AM

So do you REALY think it is possible to port rock box on a GoGear? I am not familiar with this kind of development... You need to write in clear and easy to understand sentences :-D I am a noob in this scene xD :) :P


No, without a compiler it is not possible.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 15, 2008, 01:01:37 PM
Do you think I can do anything else to make work easier in the future in the case that someone is able to write a compiler because of a change in philips opinion?
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: saratoga on March 15, 2008, 09:34:50 PM
I don't think they even make that chip anymore, so the odds of someone developing a compiler for it seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: Bagder on March 16, 2008, 05:28:09 AM
I'd say Rockbox ports for chips of this sort of closed kind is doomed to fail, so the best thing is for you to simply

1) not buy such players and if you still did:

2) sell it and buy another player for which there already is a port for or for which a port can be started!
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: PinguinXY on March 16, 2008, 09:19:55 PM
okay!^^ That was already in my mind... Mybe I'll try to sell it on ebay.... which player would you recommand? the sensa?
Title: Re: Philips GoGear 3125
Post by: Bagder on March 17, 2008, 03:40:02 AM

okay!^^ That was already in my mind... Mybe I'll try to sell it on ebay.... which player would you recommand? the sensa?


That's not related to this topic so I hope that you take this to another/new thread if you want to ask anything further on non-gogear Rockbox:

http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BuyersGuide