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Rockbox General => Rockbox General Discussion => Topic started by: danhibiki on July 10, 2007, 07:27:43 PM

Title: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 10, 2007, 07:27:43 PM
Hello, I'm getting this error when I update to the latest rockbox build: "No partition found. Insert USB cable and fix it.". Sometimes it freezes on the Rockbox logo, too.

At first I thought something corrupted my partitions, even though I could open my Nano just fine with Windows XP, so I restored it and reinstalled everything (installed the bootloader through rbutil, if that matters), but, then again the same message appeared.

So I did a little further testing and found out that the archived build from 2007-07-02 still works fine, but the one from 2007-07-03 doesn't and I get the same message I'm getting on the newest one.

Now I'm thinking this issue is related to those changes on CPU clock. Is anyone having the same problem as I am? I looked around the forum but didn't find anything related to this.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 10, 2007, 07:44:57 PM
I have no problem booting Rockbox on my Nano, with a build from merely a day ago. Is there anything at all non-standard about your Nano? Do you, or have you in the past, installed iPL, etc? Is it a 1/2gb, or a 4gb?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 10, 2007, 08:18:48 PM
A long time ago I installed iPL, before Rockbox had sound on Nano's, since then I restored my iPod a couple times, but that's it I think, nothing else. It's a black 4GB Nano.

Besides that, I have a silicon case for it, but I don't think that's an issue :)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 10, 2007, 08:26:39 PM
Well, my black 4gb Nano happens to work perfectly. Is that error message you quoted the exact one? And what does your partition table look like.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 10, 2007, 08:52:35 PM
Yes, this is the exact message. But, as I said, sometimes it hangs before it and doesn't boot Rockbox at all.

My partition table as ipodpatcher outputs:

[INFO] Scanning disk devices...
[INFO] Ipod found - 1st Generation Nano ("winpod") - disk device 2
[INFO] Part    Start Sector    End Sector   Size (MB)   Type
[INFO]    0              63        160649        78.4   Empty (0x00)
[INFO]    1          160656       7984304      3820.1   W95 FAT32 (0x0b)
[INFO] Ipod model: 1st Generation Nano ("winpod")

Listing firmware partition contents:

Image 1:
    Main firmware - 5566464 bytes
    Third-party bootloader - 49356 bytes
Image 2:
    RSRC - 16777216 bytes
Image 3:
    AUPD - 545244 bytes
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 10, 2007, 08:55:33 PM
And by "Latest build", which specifically did you mean? We do ask that you include SVN revisions, because 'latest' can easily be one or two revisions behind the most recent at the time of posting, or even mean 'the daily' from some people.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 10, 2007, 09:14:39 PM
It was the current SVN build when I posted, but I just tested the r13847-070711 and still have this issue. Right now it froze (so I could see my version :)), but one reboot before it showed the partition error.

Whoa! While I was typing Rockbox booted (when I thought it was frozen), but if I open the "Files" menu it shows nothing (and I've set it to show All files). It is running pretty sluggish too.

Ok, now this is interesting, on the Rockbox info screen, it shows that I have a disk of 1.80GB (my nano is a 4gb) and have 0KB free

My partition info shown in the debug menu is as follows:
P0: S:3F
T:0 78MB
P1: S:27290
T:B 3820 MB
P2: S:0
T:0 0MB
P3: S:0
T:0 0MB

If more information is needed, just ask, I'll leave it running this flawed Rockbox for now.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 10, 2007, 09:17:39 PM
Are you sure that's not S:27390?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 10, 2007, 09:21:32 PM
Yes, it's 27290
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 11, 2007, 04:53:42 PM
Updated to rev.13855 and now it doesn't show that partition error message (at least it didn't show up until now), but now I'm getting an error about .rockbox does not exist and installation incomplete. If I open the filetree it still shows nothing, while when I connect my nano to XP everything shows up almost fine.

I say almost fine because it seems that Rockbox is corrupting the file system on the iPod, the directory codecs, for example, became co@ecs, there was a weird file over 1GB inside .rockbox folder, and stuff like that.
But that may be because of all the lockups and reboots I am having/doing to try to make RB work correctly here.

Also, now it shows S:27390 instead of 27290
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 12, 2007, 03:22:31 PM
Still running rev 13855 and could boot into Rockbox almost properly a few times. I could see all files fine, but sometimes folder/files names got corrupted. And not always the settings were properly saved, sometimes it would boot with the settings resetted, others with my previous settings, so it's basically a complete mess :(

But now I got a new error when trying to boot:
*PANIC*
Dir entry 2 in sector 3 is not free!
42 64 00 00

To illustrate the corruption I'm having on file names, I'm attaching a screenshot from Windows Explorer. Notice the "ibons" folder, confhg.cfg, NVR@M.BHN and so on...

[attachment deleted by admin for age]
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: LambdaCalculus on July 12, 2007, 03:57:13 PM
Hmmm... that is rather screwy.

It's a long shot, but try checking your iPod file system for any errors or corruption. And as an even longer shot, run it through a virus scanner. It looks like something may have gotten in there and is causing havoc.

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 12, 2007, 04:15:39 PM
As I said, it was recently restored, so I don't think there should be any problems with my file system before it got into this state. In this current state it's obvious that it was corrupted in many ways, so running CHKDSK on it was necessary, many files appeared on FOUND.000 and many folders/files on .rockbox disappeared.

I am thinking Rockbox is the one causing all this corruption, especially because it seems to occur only on its own folder. And because older builds (2007-07-03) doesn't have any problems.
Apple OS also runs without any trouble on my Nano.

Just to be sure, I scanned it through my anti virus and got nothing.

I think I'm gonna restore it one more time and see what happens.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 26, 2007, 02:38:45 AM
Some news, I saw some updates on PP targets so I updated Rockbox (r13991) hoping that it would be running correctly right now. I think it is better than before, but it's still pretty bugged on my nano.

Now it seems to boot every time I try, didn't see those ".rockbox directory not found" messages until now, but I'm getting HEAVY graphical corruption sometimes and most often than not some kind of graphical corruption. But the filenames seem to be fine, didn't notice those bizarre file/folder names.

I tried to play some songs with no success, one time I got Data abort at 01f00228, others I got Codec Failure, sometimes I could see something like "Error accessing directory" and right now I just got "Undefined instruction at 00070D64".

By the way, I'm trying to playback some Vorbis files.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Dwyloc on July 26, 2007, 11:44:47 AM
I have been using my black ipod nano 4GB for about a year under Rockbox and I have found that it works very reliably.

I use it every day and I never see any problems with lockups or file system corruption, but when I first got my nano I quite often had problems with file system corruption.

After two small changes the problem when away.

1. I stopped using diskmode by plugging in USB under rockbox and started rebooting in to the retain OS for file transfers, file transfer are much faster and also seem to be more reliable.

2. A fix was committed for a rockbox bug which corrupted file system by creating duplicate short file names when I saved my rockbox config.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 26, 2007, 12:54:21 PM
Now I've updated to r14006 because I saw more changes on PP targets and Rockbox can't find its .rockbox directory again :-\

Dwyloc, I always use Apple OS when transferring files because for some reason it is much faster than disk mode.

Rockbox was always stable for me (except in the beggining, but that was expected), it was some changes on 2007-07-03 (probably CPU related) that started these problems. If I use a build from 2007-07-02, which I'm using because of all of the issues, it works just fine.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 01:02:25 PM
Why don't you work out exactly which change it is. And better yet, why it's not affecting any other Nano users.

I'll repeat that it still very much sounds like a bad 'disk' (flash) more than anything to do with Rockbox. You're the only person experiencing these problems, and they almost entirely relate to the disk.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 26, 2007, 01:59:06 PM
It's r13763 you can see here:
http://www.rockbox.org/daily/changelogs/changes-20070703.html

If it were some bad flash memory, then r13762 (that I builded on my own to test) would not be working correctly, it would be corrupting tons of files/folders. But that's not the case, r13762 works perfectly fine, plays back every song I try, don't have graphical glitches, always boots and so on.

Why it doesn't affect others nano users is beyond what I can do, since I don't have any other nano around me (I don't even know other people with nano's that I could test). All I can do is report the behaviour I'm getting and trying to make it as useful and detailed as I can.

If what I'm reporting isn't helpful on trying to isolate the problem, please tell me how to, because I'm willing to do this.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 02:41:34 PM
What is the most recent SVN revision you've tried, not compiled yourself but downloaded from our build server?

What bootloader version are you running?

As I said, Rockbox ran fine on my Nano using revisions you said didn't work, and as well you've showed signs that there is some strangeness to your partition. Have you tried reformatting and restoring your iPod and then re-installing Rockbox? Have you tried running a few disk checking utilities?

Just because one revision seems to be working doesn't make it set in stone that your disk isn't bad. Whatever it is, it's very likely something specific to just your iPod, otherwise other people would be having this problem, as I've said.

Have you gone back and tried older revisions to ensure they're all still working?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 03:41:26 PM
Hmmm. Interesting.

I think it's possible I might be experiencing something related. Though not nearly as severe. I only stumbled across this because I updated to the latest build without noticing the portalplayer updates. Basically, I thought my nano had finally died.

Anyway to get to the matter, for the past two weeks (I think) I've noticed that rockbox on my Nano was popping on my MP3 files and completely skipping alot of my MPC files. I first thought that I had managed to corrupt my filesystem. Which really surprised me considering how anal I usually am about that kind of thing. So I restored my iPod and reinstalled Rockbox. Then the problem came back and I thought my flash was dying. Thing is, this seems to occur fairly randomly. Sometimes I can read my files just fine.

Also, fsck and chkdsk would seem to indicate that all is fine.

Was running r14009 but have reverted to r14001 until this bootloader stuff has been sorted out. Maybe I'll try going to r13762 to see if that fixes the problem for me.

If it's at all helpful it's a Black 4GB Nano.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 03:43:14 PM
There weren't any released bootloader changes between 14001 and 14009. What are you talking about? If you're referring to the broken building of the bootloaders, that in no way affects your build. Unless you're installing SVN bootloaders (which you shouldn't be anyway) it won't affect you.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 03:52:27 PM
Nope. Using the official bootloader. Updating past r14004 causes all kinds of weirdness which I assumed was because a bootloader update was needed.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 03:54:19 PM
If a bootloader update was required, we'd post a new copy of iPodPatcher with it built in. Which version of the bootloader do you have installed?

As a note, I've just installed and am having no problems using a Current Build of Rockbox on my Nano.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 04:03:50 PM
At this point the latest one on the manual page since I noticed the dates on ipodpatcher have changed. Anything past r14004 still doesn't work.

Edit: K I'm dumb there's no difference between what I was using before and now I just saw the date change on the manual page so I assumed that there was a newer ipodpatcher. But yeah. Still the latest version of what's on the manual page.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 04:07:32 PM
"Doesn't work" is not descriptive.

How are you testing? Are you downloading from build.rockbox.org or compiling your own (since you suggest you've tried 14005-14010)? What exactly happens?

As I said, I'm having absolutely no problems.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 04:13:51 PM
I getting data aborts and just alot of weirdness. Such as infinite database rebuilding and other good fun. While I do use custom  builds I have already tried an official one and the same problems occur.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 04:16:24 PM
You didn't answer all of my questions. Please answer all of them, clearly. Specifically, are you downloading or compiling to test? Which specific revisions did you test an official build with?

As I said, using the official current build and bootloader, I'm having no problems, so I need to know exactly what you're doing, and you're being very vague in your answers.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 04:40:01 PM
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by vague because I don't feel like I'm being vague, but basically:

I'm on the official bootloader.

I've compiled versions (minus any patches I might usually use) before and after 14004 and anything on or after 14004 is broken.

I've also tried r14008 from build.rockbox.org and that's broken too.

By broken I mean most things just seem broken. When I try to play files I get data aborts. When I try to access the database it tries to rebuild and just stops there. After resetting it'll try to commit what it managed to scan and seems to stop there too.

I actually mentioned that I have a Black 4GB because I was thinking that there might be a slight hardware incompatibility somewhere with Black 4GBs even if thats unlikely.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 04:43:34 PM
I have a black 4gb.

I said you were being vague because when I asked specifically which versions you tested, you claimed to have tested on "an" official version (which means one) and then didn't say which, and went on to mention having used unofficial versions.

As well, you keep saying "broken" but don't mention for example, whether you've tried clearing your settings, where the data aborts are (address) with an official build, etc.

Please try using the latest ipodpatcher to install the current bootloader, then deleting your .rockbox folder, then extracting a downloaded current build. Then simply try to play back an MP3 file. If it data aborts, give me the svn revision, and the address the abort happens at (in case the revision changes when you download again, be sure to check the revision number in the menu).
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 05:00:34 PM
Ah.

Well the errors seem to be random and the addresses didn't seem to be consistent. Right now the ipod just seems to become unresponsive when I play a file. But I've recorded two of the errors I've gotten if you think you can do something with them.

Undefined instruction at 01F07D60
Undefined instruction at 00F00038

(These were on r14004 which is the revision on which it breaks.)

I've reverted to my r14001 build since I want to be able to use my player tomorrow. Though that still doesn't solve my original problem.

Will try a clean install over the weekend.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 26, 2007, 05:30:47 PM

What is the most recent SVN revision you've tried, not compiled yourself but downloaded from our build server?

What bootloader version are you running?

As I said, Rockbox ran fine on my Nano using revisions you said didn't work, and as well you've showed signs that there is some strangeness to your partition. Have you tried reformatting and restoring your iPod and then re-installing Rockbox? Have you tried running a few disk checking utilities?

Just because one revision seems to be working doesn't make it set in stone that your disk isn't bad. Whatever it is, it's very likely something specific to just your iPod, otherwise other people would be having this problem, as I've said.

Have you gone back and tried older revisions to ensure they're all still working?


Just tested r14015 with no luck. Same ".rockbox directory not found" message. It is interesting that r13991 ("Stop the occasional crashes (most often 'undefined instruction') on PP5020 (and PP5022?) targets.") didn't have these disk issues but the newest ones have.

Every time I'm reporting on this thread I try to use official builds, the only time I did not use it was to try r13762 because there is no archived build for it.

I have no idea which bootloader version I'm running right now, I installed it through rbutil and this version doesn't show any messages (past versions did).

I have restored it a few times to test and scanned it with chkdsk, I've talked with linuxstb on IRC and he recommended me to do so. Here is the IRC log if you want to take a look at it: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/reader.pl?date=20070712

Haven't tried many older builds besides the working one, but I can try.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 05:33:24 PM
When he suggested you restored, you said you were using iPodPatcher. Does this mean you never did a full restore (using iTunes to rebuild the partition table)?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 26, 2007, 05:53:13 PM
Couple of errors I got after deleting .rockbox and using official r14008.
Interesting to note that when I checked out my .rockbox folder there was some of the same data corruption issues the thread opener was experiencing.

Prefetch abort at 41116908
Data abort at 01F00034
Prefetch abort at 41F0C038
Undefined instruction at 01F000A8

That's what I got before it stopped giving me errors. More data corruption. Back to r14001 until I can try a full restore.

I find it interesting that danhibiki's nano broke on a earlier version than mine did. Although I've been having problems with builds before r14004. I have no idea when exactly this started happening and it really might just be my flash going bad. I'll probably try a build of r13672 and see if that clears up my problems as well.

Anyway I'm going to bed.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 05:57:31 PM
I asked you to re-download the current version of Rockbox. When you posted that it was no longer 14008.

Please, try to follow my instructions exactly.

And give very specific details on what you were doing when the crash happens.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 26, 2007, 07:14:07 PM
That day I was on IRC, I restored my nano with iTunes every time I was testing a different build. So it was like new (as Apple says) each time I tried.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 26, 2007, 07:16:53 PM
Well, try random earlier builds, I guess. As I said, I'm using it without any problems on a Nano, so the most likely cause is still some hardware issue with yours. As it is, the changes made have brought the way Rockbox handles the CPU more in line with the original firmware, if I understand correctly, so if the original firmware works, Rockbox should now be *more* likely to work properly.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 27, 2007, 02:05:21 AM
In all cases the error occurs when I browse to an mp3 file in the root of my player and try to play it. I seem to be able to navigate the menus just fine. Sorry about not using the current build at the time. Wasn't watching the changelog and didn't see the extra PP fixes.

But for what it's worth, current (r14019) doesn't work either. More error messages. Ocassionally codec failure will flash on the screen a couple of times before showing the error.

Undefined instruction at EDBAE050
Data abort at 01F04D74
Undefined instruction at 006C382C
Undefined instruction at 01F00754
Undefined instruction at 01F000A0
Undefined instruction at 006C3808
Undefined instruction at 40001BBC
Undefined instruction at EDBAE064
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 27, 2007, 02:07:24 AM
Could you try playing a different format and see if the errors are the same?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 27, 2007, 02:36:28 AM
I'll try. But I'm going out soon.

MPC file

Data abort at 01FD9874
Data abort at 01F06188
Data abort at 01F06188
Data abort at 01FD9874
Data abort at 01F07ABC
Undefined instruction at EDBAE068
Undefined instruction at EDBAE058
Undefined instruction at EDBAE04C
Undefined instruction at 00079080
Undefined instruction at EDBAE058


Vorbis file

Prefetch abort at 65646F62
Undefined instruction at EDBAE058
Data abort at 01F000C0
Undefined instruction at 00F00018
Prefetch abort at 65646F62
Undefined instruction at 00070E84
Prefetch abort at 41F119F8 (Metadata loaded to screen and codec failure flashed before giving error)
Undefined instruction at EDBAE054 (Metadata again loaded and flashed codec failure. Did this a couple of times trying to play the other files in the directory before crashing.)
Undefined instruction at EDBAE04C (Same)

Will try a 13672 build and see if it fixes my other problem.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 27, 2007, 09:16:43 PM
Could both of you tell me the version of the original firmware currently on your device?

As well, farpenoodle, have you ever installed iPod Linux?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 27, 2007, 10:35:04 PM
May be this could investigate the situation.
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11817.0
Sorry if I'm not in topic.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 28, 2007, 12:49:38 AM
I have the most updated Apple OS that I know of, version 1.3.1
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 12:51:38 AM
So far, everyone experiencing problems has been using 1.3 or 1.3.1, while I'm using 1.2. It's *possible* this is the cause, but I really need to find someone with 1.2 who has access to a Windows machine to upgrade and test.

If all else fails, I'll have access in a week or two and will sacrifice mine to the upgrade.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: bascule on July 28, 2007, 01:34:02 AM
I could do that. I have a Rockboxed nano on an older Apple firmware version (can't verify which ATM, because I'm just charging it.

I'd happily have a go. I can also compile earlier builds and test them out if required prior to doing the Apple upgrade. I presume you can't then downgrade the Apple firmware?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 01:38:00 AM
It should be possible to downgrade the apple firmware, but downgrading the flash is questionable. As in, it should be doable, but it may not be as easy. The on-disk firmware can just be overwritten with an older apple_os.ipod generated by iPodPatcher, but it *may* not be willing to flash an older flash image (we'd have to write it to the device, and set the flag that says it needs to be written, and of course we need a means to verify the image is good first as we wouldn't want it flashing a bad image).

If you're using a version pre 1.3, what I'd like to ask is that you upgrade to the current build of Rockbox, play around a while, make sure playback seems normal. Then in the Debug menu, dump the ROM contents, and back that file up somewhere. Then upgrade your Apple firmware. It *should* do the flash update (ask that you plug in, and show a progress bar). After that, reinstall the Rockbox bootloader, and see if you're now unable to play any music (the sorts of errors reported in this thread.) Be aware, if this *is* the cause it may be some time before there's a fix (depending on what aspect is the cause.) If your iPod *is* now experiencing the crashes, dump the ROM contents again. Hopefully I can talk someone who knows what they're doing into comparing the two files to see if they handle hardware initialization differently.

If you have any doubts, feel free to back out, as I said, if nobody else gets around to it, I'll sacrifice mine once I get back (assuming my laptop is repaired by then), and if you have any questions, ask them before you start so we can make sure everything gets done. ;)

Edit 1: Compiling two builds I ask those of you having problems to try. Amiconn has some theories as to what might be the problems, these will hopefully illuminate it.

Edit 2: Please try both of these builds and let me know if either (or both) works.

[attachment deleted by admin for age]
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:06:40 AM
test1 works perfectly.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:07:07 AM
What about test3?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:10:23 AM
Test3 works not.

I investigated already that 14019 doesn't works, so 14034 cannot work...
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:12:23 AM
It's a modified 14034, it's not a straight build. Did you actually try it, or are you assuming it won't work because you know 14034 doesn't work?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:14:48 AM
I have actually tested it. I'm honest.
It skipped playback (didn't work), I entered "about" menu, noted that it was 14034 and could not exit from that menu - the Ipod completely hanged.


14010 doesn't work too. Next step is 14005.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:15:31 AM
What do you mean "skipped playback"?

Also, for the rest of the people, I still need you to test, TVG's problem doesn't have identical symptoms to yours.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 28, 2007, 03:19:24 AM

Could both of you tell me the version of the original firmware currently on your device?

As well, farpenoodle, have you ever installed iPod Linux?


Never. At least not on my Nano. Running 1.3.1 here as well.

Have used my r13762 build for a while and my popping and skipping issues seem to have disappeared as well. I'll test the modified builds soon.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:21:59 AM
Sorry, english is not native for me.

"Skipped" - i mean it plays 2-3-5-7 seconds, then skip to next track (failing to play the current, I assume). Completely chaotic behavior. It cannot play continiously and hangs after some time, if in menu. Sometimes, earlier, while I still used headphones to test it, there were LOUD audible glitches.

It's fun, that the problem was introduced in time I bought first IPOD (used) for me.

P. S.: I will try Ipod linux a bit later (if you asked me).
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:24:17 AM
No, don't bother trying iPod Linux. At the time, the most obvious similarity between iPods experiencing the problem was previous installation of iPL. It seems more likely that it's firmware version 1.3 / 1.3.1.

Amiconn suggested it may be an  IDE timing issue, which is what we're attempting to discover right now. If this is the case, there should be a couple possible solutions depending upon which direction is chosen (and whether the initialization from 1.2 can tell us what to change).
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:26:43 AM
Good.
I will discover exactly and tell you.

Also please note, that with 14019 build I have listened 2-3 mp3 albums very vell, it faults only on flac.
And IDE? Doesn't it have only MMC part?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:29:04 AM
It's not MMC. It has flash for storage, but makes use of an IDE interface if I understand correctly. I believe this is because of the integrated hardware in the PortalPlayer chipset, but this isn't something I'm certain about.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:34:46 AM
14006 doesn't work.

I thought if "Clean up PP502x CPU clock setup code and use the full 80MHz when boosted." was introduced in 14003, then 14003 won't work, but it works.

14004 is just "Add some svn:ignore properties. ", is this the thing that brokes playback?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:38:16 AM
14004 is "Clean up PP502x CPU clock setup code and use the full 80MHz when boosted.", why do you think that's 14003?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 28, 2007, 03:44:16 AM
Really? Oh, this means I missed and shifted ::)

And, bingo, 14004 does not work.
And 14003 does work.
So...

I assume the problem is in http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c?r1=14003&r2=14004
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 28, 2007, 03:45:43 AM
rockbox-test1.zip seems to work. Haven't tried it enough to see if my other issues are still present.

rockbox-test3.zip is just whacky.

I tried to boot it three times. First time it stayed at the logo for some time and then showed a corrupted messagebox full of chinese characters. Probably should have taken a picture.

Second time it got stuck on "Scanning disk"

Third time, this is what I got:

*PANIC*
Dir entry 9 in sector 6 is no free!
61 F4 ED 03
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 03:49:27 AM
Alright, thank you. I'll post here if I need more testing of anything specific.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 28, 2007, 03:57:34 AM
Just a quick update. test1 does not fix my skipping problems.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 04:00:58 AM
For the skipping problems, you should try to isolate the build it starts. This may require compiling builds, as simply isolating which day it started on is not terribly helpful.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 28, 2007, 04:08:13 AM
I believe it's related to the problem at hand.

My 13762 build worked fine and I believe it's probably an issue of rockbox reading incorrect data off the flash. I'll compile a build of 13763 and 13767 and see if it's there.

It's a little harder to test this since it seems to occur somewhat randomly.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 04:10:54 AM
Every build from 13763 until 13990 is likely to be broken for PP502x targets, or so I'm told. Which is why they aren't reliable for testing.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: bascule on July 28, 2007, 05:58:45 AM

If you're using a version pre 1.3...


Well, sorry all, my mistake. I'm actually on 1.3.1 :(

...and if I understand you correctly, Llorean, it's not possible to fully downgrade so that the flash image is identical to the 1.2 version and therefore may not be worthwhile for testing.

However, I would be willing to try, but obviously I'd need someone to post an image and talk me through the procedure. I'm unfamiliar with the Nano OF, as I 've only ever run Rockbox on this player ;D
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 28, 2007, 06:18:09 AM
With 1.3.1, and a current build of Rockbox, is your iPod stable?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on July 28, 2007, 01:07:58 PM
Test1 build boots properly, didn't see any graphical corruptions, but couldn't playback any songs, MP3 gave me codec failure and Vorbis data abort at 01f000c0.

Test3 couldn't find my partition, didn't boot.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: bascule on July 28, 2007, 01:44:17 PM

With 1.3.1, and a current build of Rockbox, is your iPod stable?


Well, I've been running r14041 for a couple of hours now, first with default settings and then with a new theme and a database update.

I'm playing a mix of MP3, Vorbis and FLAC and I've not had a single hiccup or hitch yet...
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Farpenoodle on July 28, 2007, 04:40:11 PM
Damn. So it's not 1.3.1 that's causing it?

At any rate, I've managed to pinpoint where my skipping problems start. r13767. I guess it's sensitive to clock speed changes or something.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: gxti on July 28, 2007, 05:13:36 PM
Jumping on the bandwagon here,


Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: bascule on July 28, 2007, 11:36:20 PM

Jumping on the bandwagon here,


And...?

You are having problems, or you're not?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: sadffffff on July 29, 2007, 10:27:51 PM
tried the current build last night (Version: r14054-070729) on my 4gb black nano with apple firmware version 1.1. everything worked just fine, mp3, vorbis, flac, doom. Except the mpeg viewer, which would (somewhat randomly) give me "Data abort at C0EDBABE" (lol) when playing files that played fine in older rb builds.

actually now im not sure if this is related at all. making a new thread.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 30, 2007, 07:29:07 AM
Should 14053 fix the issue?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: pondlife on July 31, 2007, 09:07:18 AM
Please can I ask somene who's having a problem running music playback on a 1G Nano to report it to Flyspray, and post back with the bug number.  Then everyone else who's seeing the same can add a note too.  

I'm only referring to "general" crashing here - not when using plugins (such as mpegplayer).  They do need fixing too, but lets get the basics working first.

pondlife
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 31, 2007, 12:37:38 PM
pondlife
Here is it: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510

Everyone who experienced this bug could add a note.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 31, 2007, 01:18:47 PM
Please do not spam the boards asking people to vote for your bug. There is NO VALUE IN VOTING. It's ignored anyway.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on July 31, 2007, 01:21:39 PM
podlife said "Then everyone else who's seeing the same can add a note too.  "
Sorry, i'll remove all this.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 31, 2007, 01:24:39 PM
"note" is not the same word as "vote". They can add comments describing both their symptoms, and specific details about their player which may differ from the rest.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mborus on July 31, 2007, 02:32:43 PM
Just want to add my experiences. I had serious problems on my 2GB Nano 1st gen
after playing WMA files (CVS r14074-070730, I posted it here in the WMA thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11376.15)
My Apple original firmware is 1.2.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on July 31, 2007, 03:08:59 PM
Update: We need new information. 1.3 does not seem to be the correlating factor (I've upgraded my iPod and at least for now seem to be having no problems.)

We need you to go into System->Debug->Disk Info and copy the following:
Model:
Firmware :
PIO modes:
Cycle times:
IORDY support:
IORDY disable:
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on August 10, 2007, 06:27:41 AM
After an upgrade to the last svn sources (14266), having similar problems here
ipod nano first gen (4G) and unable to play anymore (mp3,ogg/vorbis)
where is the system->debug gone? unable to find debug on this version.
Thx for your help.

   Olivier

PS: trying to downgrade to my old build but unable to reboot to "original firmware" now -> have to use the slow usb mode will take 10mins at least to check the result.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on August 10, 2007, 07:08:52 AM
model st55ld019k-45-... (unable to read... out of screen)
firmware adba41kb
(size 3906Mb)
piomode 0 1 2 3 4
cycle time 120ns 120ns
iordy support yes
iordy disable no

(working with my old build 070119-0901
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: war59312 on August 11, 2007, 08:19:12 PM
I tried adding a note to the bug report itself but cant yet (waiting for validation email),  so:

Quote
Model: SST55LD019K-45-C-MWE

Firmware: ADBA40KA

PIO modes: 0 1 2 3 4

Cycle times: 120ns/120NS

IORDY support: yes

IORDY disable: no

Update:

http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510#comment17128
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Stalwart on August 11, 2007, 08:33:44 PM
I have same problem. Nano 1G 1Gb black. AppleOS version: 1.3.1

Model: SST55LD019K-45-C-MWE
Firmware: ADBA41KC
PIO Modes: 0 1 2 3 4
Cycle times: 120ns 120ns
IORDY support: yes
IORDY disable: no
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: SorcererSteven on August 14, 2007, 06:06:28 PM
I had read that thread before posting mine. It doesn't seem to be the same at all (from my perspective, at least ^_^). Updates later than the one's mentioned there seem to work, and I've never had any error messages. I have also had no problems playing music on the working versions. Since it seems to be my iPod specific (I don't get that, but hey! That's technology) I'll just keep trying updates every few days, and see if anything works. When it's working (and if I remember) I'll mention something here. Maybe when I get some free time I'll try a clean install of Rockbox. Maybe I messed with something I shouldn't have ^_^.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on August 23, 2007, 03:29:28 PM
any news concerning this rather strange bug?
I guess a good part of ipod-nano 4g mays have the problem... guess it needs some more investigations?
thx for your help.

Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on September 06, 2007, 01:53:53 PM
Am'I missing something here? Has someone able to do it taken a look at this bug?
Or anyone with the bug has found a workaround?
Thx.

     Olivier
 
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mikelx215 on September 06, 2007, 02:57:24 PM
People seem to be looking into it. No one fixed it yet.

Test one on page 3 should work in the meantime.  ;)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on September 06, 2007, 03:07:26 PM
No one has fixed it yet because the people actually experiencing the bug aren't working on it, but running test builds instead.

No developer has psychic powers, he can't investigate a bug by reading the minds and players of everyone who's experiencing it.

At the very, very least if one of you really wanted to see the bug fixed, you could got into the IRC channel and offer to loan your player to any developer interested in investigating the matter.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on September 23, 2007, 06:52:41 AM
The thing is... what could I do to help?
I answered all questions asked here. I guess this is not good enough but lacking any reply, well I'm not psychic either ;)
Loaning my ipod is OK... but I'm in europe and using it about 3h a day.
I may be able to help debug though (able to patch/compile a rockbox to check it and report any debug information you want)
I'll try to get to you on IRC but this is not that easy either. In the meanwhile if you have anything I can do to help. Let me know.

    Olivier


Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: AlexP on September 23, 2007, 06:56:36 AM
Being in Europe is good, most of the core devs are so loaning it will be easier :)

Could you pop onto IRC and if willing make the offer to loan the Nano?  Hopefully a dev will have the time to take you up on it!
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: sersoft on September 23, 2007, 04:27:43 PM
LOL so many people are having problems with nano rockbox, I'm glad I just sold mine.  ::)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: scorche on September 23, 2007, 06:56:58 PM

LOL so many people are having problems with nano rockbox, I'm glad I just sold mine.  ::)


Keep in mind you are only seeing the people who are having issues and not the people for whom Rockbox works fine...
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on September 24, 2007, 04:32:27 AM
Hi there.
I was having something which looked very much like this problem.
Went to the IRC chan to see how I could help fixing it.

Whith zagor we did some preliminary tests to assert the bug:

- clean format (zagor didn't ask for it... but I guessed it couldn't hurt)
  : same problem

- check 14003/14004
  : none of them worked

- updated the ipod bootloader to the latest one using ipodpatcher. (was using an old but not that old firmware... unable to remember the exact version... something late 2006). The process documented here: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodnano/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-120002.2.4
  : both worked fine.

- tried the last svn checkout
  : worked too.

So... I guess all you people having this problem should try to update too and see what happens.
If you confirm the "fix" please report to the tracker thread.
CU and thanks again to zagor and all the rockbox coders/documenters/testers/... for this really great work.


 Â   Olivier

Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on September 24, 2007, 05:11:39 AM

- updated the firmware to the latest one using ipodpatcher. (was using an old but not that old firmware... unable to remember the exact version... something late 2006)


Do you mean Apple Firmware here ?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: pixelma on September 24, 2007, 06:21:23 AM
I followed the process in IRC a bit and I think he means "Rockbox bootloader".
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on September 24, 2007, 07:14:21 AM
yes indeed.
I've updated the rockbox bootloader.
Just download ipodpatcher and run it as documented here:
http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodnano/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-120002.2.4
let us know.

 Â  Olivier

Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on September 24, 2007, 07:18:20 AM

yes indeed.
I've updated the rockbox bootloader.


In that case could you modify your original post to indicate this then please, as I had no idea what "firmware" you were talking about.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: neoliv on September 24, 2007, 07:26:50 AM
Clear enough?
Did you get the same positive result?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on September 24, 2007, 07:28:00 AM
I don't own a Nano, but yes, that's a lot clearer.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on September 26, 2007, 06:31:59 AM
I'd like to say, that after 5 minutes in refrigerator my Nano works for 20 minutes on the latest build well.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: embrion on September 26, 2007, 12:59:13 PM
So it looks like the faulty code part is overclocking the CPU too much:
 - tvg's Nano worked some time until it gained temp
 - some Nanos work and some not  == like PC CPUs (some units of the same CPU model overclocks well, some not too well and some not at all)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: scorche on September 26, 2007, 01:04:46 PM
The PP chip is not being overclocked  it is speced for 32 KHz - 80 MHz.

As a reminder, as it seems some have forgotten this, but the problem doesn't seem to be solely based on temperature.  A few of us have gotten our nanos hot enough that it is too hot to touch, and they still haven't acted up.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: first500 on September 27, 2007, 03:32:54 AM
It's definitely not an overheating problem with my Nano.

It works fine with the 20070725 release, but crashes with all of the August onward releases.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: soap on September 28, 2007, 10:39:42 AM

The PP chip is not being overclocked  it is speced for 32 KHz - 80 MHz.

As a reminder, as it seems some have forgotten this, but the problem doesn't seem to be solely based on temperature.  A few of us have gotten our nanos hot enough that it is too hot to touch, and they still haven't acted up.


I agree that there appears to be little evidence that Nanos which don't exhibit the problem are temperature sensitive.
What I am curious about is if all Nanos which /do/ exhibit the problem are also temperature sensitive.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: embrion on September 29, 2007, 12:57:48 PM

I agree that there appears to be little evidence that Nanos which don't exhibit the problem are temperature sensitive.
What I am curious about is if all Nanos which /do/ exhibit the problem are also temperature sensitive.



Well,
Quote
I'd like to say, that after 5 minutes in refrigerator my Nano works for 20 minutes on the latest build well.

so it seems that problematic Nanos are also temperature sensitive
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Chronon on September 29, 2007, 01:30:30 PM
embrion, a single anecdote does nothing to prove that all Nanos that exhibit the problem are temperature sensitive.  It may or may not turn out to be the case, but a single anecdote surely does not support the conclusion you are trying to make.  It's like saying, "I have a red apple: Therefore, all apples are red."
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on September 29, 2007, 06:02:00 PM
As well, after five minutes in the fridge, your Nano would most likely return to the same temperature it gets to after booting from room temperature in far, far less than 20 minutes.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: soap on September 30, 2007, 08:49:47 AM

As well, after five minutes in the fridge, your Nano would most likely return to the same temperature it gets to after booting from room temperature in far, far less than 20 minutes.

Unless the chip suffering from heat isn't in the PP SoC.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on September 30, 2007, 08:53:11 AM
Yes, but if it goes nearly immediately from "Room temperature" to "Too hot to function" as of our recent changes, and never ever reached "Too hot to function" prior to these changes, it should go from "Quite cold" to "Too hot to function" in an amount of time shorter than 20 minutes, I would expect.

Of course, I can't test this hypothesis anyway.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on October 02, 2007, 10:21:13 AM

As well, after five minutes in the fridge, your Nano would most likely return to the same temperature it gets to after booting from room temperature in far, far less than 20 minutes.


That's not true. Back metallic plate remains cold for near 20 minutes laying on wooden table.

And if you don't believe that apples are red, just check it - put an Ipod to a refrigerator. Of course, it must be problematic ipod.

At lease it can be assumed, that the part of Nanos have anoter temperature flow inside.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 02, 2007, 10:23:48 AM
The back metallic plate also is not the problematic part, and does not have current running through it providing a significant amount of energy with which to generate heat...

Your hypothesis is that it can go from "Room temperature" to "Hotter than it's ever gotten before" in a very short time, but not from "Cold" to "Hotter than it's ever gotten before" in less than 20 minutes, despite the fact that we're obviously heating it up (according to you).

Let me ask: How long does it take, holding it in your hands, to go from "Cold" to "Hand temperature"?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: WauloK on October 03, 2007, 08:07:18 AM
Just to jump on the bandwagon with everyone else.. Test1 seems to fix problems I've mentioned in the other threads here, for my iPod Nano 1G 2Gb.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on October 03, 2007, 08:40:46 AM
Llorean, in my hands? How tight should I touch it?

I could say, how long it takes to warm up from the refrigerator to 'not cold condition' at room temp. = 20 degrees.

Also back metallic plate owns high temperature capacity and, if in contact with electronics, it could slow down the process of changing the temperature of it.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 03, 2007, 09:25:46 AM
My point was that you're making a faulty relationship.

If you leave an iPod Nano sitting in Room Temperature, you're not actively adding energy to the backplate. The only thing affecting the temperature change is sitting in the room.

If you're running current through a microprocessor, it heats up. Fairly quickly. Turn on your PC from a cold start, run your CPU at 100%, and see how long it takes to heat up. The backplate is not having current run through it, so even if the microprocessor heats up, it still may be quite some time before you feel the back plate at the same temperature.

My point is that you should use some scientific method in your experimentation rather than making assumptions. Correlation does not imply causation.

Why not use a thermometer to actually measure component heat in your Nano? If it goes from "Room temperature" to "Too hot" almost immediately, then a great deal of heat is added.

Another important fact: FLAC has LESS boost ratio than MP3. This means that FLAC runs the core processor cooler than MP3, and yet for many people FLAC is more problematic, not less as your theory requires it must be.

Please, look at all of the evidence, and perform structured testing, rather than trying to make leaps. While it clearly runs better for some people cooler, this doesn't mean that we're generating significantly more heat, it only means that "certain hardware performs better cooler", not strictly "we're making it too hot".

For example, in a hypothetical example, if something can be updated 60 times per second "cold" and 50 time per second "hot", and your code previously updated at 45, and moves to 55, it doesn't need to be operating at a new temperature to experience problems if it was always "hot" before, but if you cool it these problems will vanish despite a lack of change of original operating temperature. Which means that the problem is in how fast we update it (in this hypothetical situation) but a lept to conclusion could be that we make it too hot, since cooling seems to fix it.

So please, PLEASE, investigate thoroughly from every angle, rather than making any assumption. Even if it's right, PROVE that it's right, rather than simply assuming it is, by figuring out what's actually going wrong. Even if it's overheating, we need to know WHY it is.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: aressto on October 04, 2007, 04:03:27 AM
when trying to play mp3 file, ipod nano 2gb says:

Undefined instruction at 40003934 (0)

and freezes

using

iPod Nano 1st gen
r14976


tryed different releases for a 3-4 days, same thing

Would you please recomend stable release and where to download it
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: aressto on October 04, 2007, 05:51:34 AM
i tryed one by one rockbox-ipodnano-20070904.zip
rockbox-ipodnano-20070905.zip
rockbox-ipodnano-20070921.zip
rockbox-ipodnano-20070925.zip
rockbox-ipodnano-20070926.zip << mp3 sounds like dialup modem if you pick up the phone :)
rockbox-ipodnano-20070928.zip << this one freezes

from http://www.rockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=ipodnano

and there is no such an error (except ones that i marked)

BUT

all mp3 tracks playing with every seconds artifacts, like mp3 is crapped . But i checked mp3s on other ipod with rockbox (5th gen 80gbs) everything is ok.

Please, advice stable release then. where i can download it?

i heard that its previouse from 1401, but i cant find such a thing in the archive, please, upload!
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on October 04, 2007, 06:06:16 AM
Please don't double post.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: tvg on October 05, 2007, 08:11:48 AM
Llorean, you are right.
Next days I'll manage an "experiment" with clock timer. Unfortunately, I can't disassebmle it.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: aressto on October 07, 2007, 12:59:56 PM
with new r15015

i get
Undefined instruction at 00F0D814 (0)

please, upload old build that works, please!!
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: embrion on October 08, 2007, 04:45:51 AM
To aressto: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11817.msg99082#msg99082 (tvg's post)

For me and many others it works.

To Devs:

Maybe it would be a good idea to modify the problematic code part like Neil Schemenauer (nas) did at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510 and keep it that way in current builds?
I know that it's not correct (as I remember one of Devs said, the problematic higher CPU freq is normal freq for Nano's PPc) but at least it works for all.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on October 08, 2007, 04:54:18 AM

I know that it's not correct (as I remember one of Devs said, the problematic higher CPU freq is normal freq for Nano's PPc) but at least it works for all.


No - we want to leave it the way it is until we find someone who's got the smarts to fix it. We don't want to cover up the issue.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: void303 on October 08, 2007, 05:12:54 PM
i switched from the thread I've problem "No partition found. Insert USB cable and fix it." (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12163.0) to this thread because i matches my problem. my posts in the other thread link (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12163.msg98698#msg98698) (two posts, i know double posting is bad)


ipod: ipod nano 2gb 1st generation
firmware: 1.3.1
model: MA004FD
format: Windows
pc: windows xp sp2

Model:SST55[]D019K-45-[]-IWE
Firmware :ADBA40KA
PIO modes:0 1 2 3 4
Cycle times:120ns/120ns
IORDY support:yes
IORDY disable:no

[] means a quadradic symbol


abbreviation:
"no patition" = "No partition found. Insert USB cable and fix it."

tried rockbox versions:


i can reproduce the working (booting) and erroneous (no partition error) condition by copying the respective .rockbox directory. so it looks like the bootloader works and it is a problem with rockbox itself.

so the only two old versions are booting up. all other versions (also tried daily builds) get the "no partition" error.

the two versions, which are booting, have a different problem, i cant play music.
rockbox boots up normal and shows the main menu. when i try to play a file from the "files" menu, i see the following

first time i select the file
Code: [Select]

jungle
(root)
(root)                                                 [1:1]
192kBit (no id3)
0:00 / 2:08

player switches back to filelisting after some time

2nd time i select the file
Code: [Select]

no file!
(root)
(root)                                                 [1:1]
0:00 / 0:00
?kBit (no id3)



rockbox crashes:



Code: [Select]
*PANIC*
Dir entry 14 in se
ctor 0 is not free
I 44 4F 43 53


Code: [Select]
*PANIC*
Dir entry 2 in sec
tor 2 is not free!
4E 56 52 40


after the crash i reboot, sometimes all is ok again and i can reproduce the crash with choosing the mp3 file for two times or i get a boot error

reboot errors

Code: [Select]
No partition
found.
Insert USB cable
and fix it


or something like (cant remember the exact words):

Code: [Select]
no rockbox found

or

Code: [Select]
Rockbox boot loader
Version 2.0
IPOD version: 0x000C0005
%myserial%
Partition 1: 0x0B 1866 MB
Loading Rockbox...
Error!
Can't  load rockbox.ipod
File not found
....

if i go in diskmode an look at the files they are completly corrupt
Code: [Select]

 Directory of I:\.rockbox
07.10.2007  06:52    
         .
07.10.2007  06:52    
         ..
07.10.2007  06:52    
         backdrops
07.10.2007  06:52    
         codecs
07.10.2007  06:53    
         codepages
07.10.2007  06:53    
         docs
07.10.2007  06:53    
         eqs
07.10.2007  06:53    
         fonts
07.10.2007  06:53              icons
07.10.2007  06:53              langs
07.10.2007  06:54              recpresets
07.10.2007  06:54              rocks
07.10.2007  06:54              themes
07.10.2007  06:54              viewers
07.10.2007  06:54              wps
08.10.2007  12:25                44 nvr@m.bhn
26.07.2007  06:15               321 rockbox-info.txt
26.07.2007  06:16           469.616 ROCKBO~1.IPO
26.07.2007  06:15             6.937 tagn`vi.config
26.07.2007  06:15               636 vhewers.config
08.10.2007  12:24                 3 [PH@XHz0
06.02.2007  22:02                40 NVR@I.H

01.01.1601  02:00                 7 _PL@YLz0
06.08.2007  22:32                12 @TABAz1.PCD
08.10.2007  12:26                44 NVR@M.BHN
08.10.2007  12:26                44 NVR@M~1.BHN
08.10.2007  12:26                86 COJFIF.CFG
08.08.2007  12:24                40 NVR@I.BHJ
08.10.2007  12:26                44 NVR@M.BHN
08.10.2007  21:33                 0 list.txt
              15 File(s)        477.874 bytes
              15 Dir(s)   1.910.861.824 bytes free

after another reinstall (fat32 format ipod and copy rockbox again) it worked again, and again after i tried to play the mp3 file -> crash and corrupt filesystem

Code: [Select]
Volume in drive I has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 3C7B-0E0A

 Directory of I:\.rockbox

08.10.2007  22:18    
         .
08.10.2007  22:18    
         ..
28.07.2007  02:33               305 rockbox-info.txt
08.10.2007  22:18    
         recpresets
08.10.2007  22:18    
         rocks
08.10.2007  22:18    
         viewers
28.07.2007  02:33               636 viewers.config
08.10.2007  22:18    
         codepages
08.10.2007  22:18    
         docs
08.10.2007  22:18    
         eqs
28.07.2007  02:33             6.937 TAGNAV~1.CON
08.10.2007  22:19              ps
08.10.2007  22:19              hemes
08.10.2007  22:19              co@ecs
08.10.2007  22:19              @ngs
01.01.1601  02:00              BACK@R~1
08.08.2007  22:20              icons
24.07.2007  02:33           469.624 ROCKBOz1.IPO
08.10.2007  13:28                44 NVR@I.HJ
08.08.2007  13:20                 3 [PH@YLz0
08.10.2007  13:29                 7 .play(isp_control
08.10.2007  22:32                 0 list.txt
               8 File(s)        477.556 bytes
              14 Dir(s)   1.941.172.224 bytes free







greets







Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: aressto on October 09, 2007, 02:32:48 AM
2embrion: thank you so much, man!  ;D

2devs: it is confusing when you cant download a working release :-\ even in archive
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on October 09, 2007, 06:16:44 AM
If you're desperate for a release which works, rather than one which addresses the problem - then learn to build your own. Then you can build from whichever svn release suits your purposes.

However, then you're on your own when it comes to support. Like you are if you use ANY out of date release.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: aressto on October 09, 2007, 11:43:03 AM
yes, but im an ordinary user, not programmer

and im just in love with rockbox firmware

why should i freak myself out looking for a working release if you know that there was't any for an ages?
i think that remark about working release will be very useful

im happy that embrion just told me @hey man , here it is, a working one@, thats more then enough for a ordinary user, couse i cant do debugging and other stuff

ofcourse its your own rules, im not trying to break into someones church :)
just thinking about other users that just found out what a great thing is a rockbox, but dont want to wait for an ages for the problem to be fixed
They just came to site, downloaded firmware, and its not working. Downloaded 10-15 prev. released builds and its not working. What a pitty

ps. im very sorry for my english. i hope you get what i want to tell you
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 09, 2007, 11:44:43 AM
Then why not spend some time learning about programming and hardware and try to pitch in and help? It's a great way to learn something and get involved at the same time...
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: aressto on October 10, 2007, 03:11:35 AM
but why should i? im not interested in programming, instead im interested in music and working rockbox :D

programmers, thanx for your work, im loving it !

webmaster, mark working build for nano, still thinking it will be very useful for users, or they have to come to forum and wait for few days for other people like embrion. Couse you have to be telipaticaly smart to find this build in this forum by keywords.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on October 10, 2007, 03:27:53 AM

webmaster, mark working build for nano, still thinking it will be very useful for users, or they have to come to forum and wait for few days for other people like embrion. Couse you have to be telipaticaly smart to find this build in this forum by keywords.


Again, no.

Rockbox is not a finished product, and as such we do not maintain a list of "working" builds.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 10, 2007, 12:51:50 PM
You say "Why should I make Rockbox work?"

You also said you're interested in a working Rockbox. This seems contradictory. We could be more evil, and remove all links to any working build to force people to help us fix this thing. We don't go that far.

But if everybody immediately skips over the problems and just downloads an earlier build that works, like you intend to do, NOBODY will work on fixing it, ever. So thank you for choosing to opt out of helping, just like everybody else, and helping to insure that this problem will never get any better.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Skaffen on October 15, 2007, 02:16:24 PM
I can understand that it's frustrating/annoying for developers to be told by an end user that they "must" or "should" do something when it's a free open source product (in this case fix a bug that affects a small portion of users without a clear pattern explaining why), however telling end users that if they want the problem solved they should learn programming seems a little off.

I'm sure that it's not a generally held belief that end users should fix bugs they uncover or put up with it - it's probably more an expression of frustration that this issue doesn't seem to be manfesting on any nanos in the hands of someone equipped to try get to the bottom of it combined with users treating it a bit like something they paid for rather than something they got for free.

Some questions I raised on the tracker that no-one commented on (perhaps they were stupid questions *shrug*):

1) Why, if the PPC chip in the nano is specc'd to 80Mhz, was it originally not run at that speed? It seems odd to run at a slower speed for so long for no reason, so I'm assuming there was a reason.

2) Do we know what speed Apple run the chip at in the Nanos with their firmware? Do they definitely run it at the full 80Mhz?

Looking at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/reader.pl?date=20060327 it seems that a decision was taken at that time to stick with 75Mhz because of possible problems IPL (ipodlinux?) had spotted with running it over 75Mhz.

I see from a later thread that there was a discussion between Llorean and amiconn about the nano problems http://www.rockbox.org/irc/reader.pl?date=20070728 ... But there's not really been much anyone's been able to do since?

I guess it's left that either someone with a nano that exhibits the problems learns about programming ipod hardware or sends the nano to someone who knows about programming ipod hardware?

From reading the threads it seems it's not unprecidented that a chip in a player has a lower stable max Mhz than the quoted spec for the chip. It also seems that it might not be known for sure exactly what the nano chip specification is - to quote "The PP5021 is a PP5022 internally, probably just not specified for the full 100MHz" (it may be that there's more concrete information since that discussion, of course).

Of course if Apple's OS runs the CPU at the full 80mhz then that's a clear indication that the problems with rockbox are because the hardware (of which flash is a part) can't handle it if initialised/accessed the way the Apple OS does, but if apple do run it at less than 80mhz then maybe they have a good reason for it - and it may well be that there is no ide timing problem or other thing that be overcome in the software because the hardware package overall is not designed to run at that speed (as with graphics cards some people can run them faster than designed without problems, of course).
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on October 15, 2007, 03:13:32 PM

I can understand that it's frustrating/annoying for developers to be told by an end user that they "must" or "should" do something when it's a free open source product (in this case fix a bug that affects a small portion of users without a clear pattern explaining why), however telling end users that if they want the problem solved they should learn programming seems a little off.


I disagree. While we're of course happy that a lot of people find Rockbox useful - the project is not about providing end users with a product, and never has been. Bugs that don't exist on a developer's hardware are impossible to fix - and there's no incentive for a Rockbox developer with a working Nano to revert it to some old code for what, to them, is no good reason. So the only way to get a fix for this issue is for someone who HAS the bug to get a clue, and try to help fix it.

This is exactly how *I* first became an active member of Rockbox, when I found the 80GB iPod was not supported. No-one else was working on finding out how - so I had to if I wanted Rockbox working on mine. As it happens, eventually it was LinusN who figured out the problem - but I'd done several months worth of work of finding all the things that weren't the issue to help him narrow down the issue. So perhaps someone doing that sort of work is all that it will take, and it will filter out all the cruft to a point where a current Rockbox dev will go "Ah ha - it's probably this", and find the fix.

Complaining that it doesn't work and whining that you want it put it back just because it's currently in a state that doesn't work on your Nano is not the way to get it fixed.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 15, 2007, 03:57:44 PM
1) The PP chip was originally run at 75 mhz because we had not yet discovered the right way to clock it to 80mhz, simple as that. I think that's a very reasonable reason for not doing it yet: We didn't know how to do it the right way. We still had more to learn about the chips first. The problems over 75 came from incomplete knowledge, but we have someone who spent time investigating and figured out what needed to be done to set it to 80 properly.

2) There's not a good way for knowing how fast or slow the Apple OS runs the chip without a lot of reverse engineering work. Frankly, it also doesn't matter of Apple does or doesn't, if they don't it may simply prove that their code never chooses to run at that speed (it's apparently common in DAP firmwares to have a table of speeds for different bitrate and formats, and use one that's just slightly faster than the maximum necessary rather than our preferred approach of changing speeds between a boosted and unboosted state to save battery life) and not anything about the stability of that speed.

As was noted, it's internally identical to a 100mhz chip, but we chose 80mhz because that's the speed of the slowed iPod core we know of.

And again, the problem doesn't happen in the processor: If we were running the processor faster than it is supposed to be safe to run, you would see different symptoms.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: nas on October 15, 2007, 05:55:07 PM

The problems over 75 came from incomplete knowledge, but we have someone who spent time investigating and figured out what needed to be done to set it to 80 properly.


I would say that 80MHz is working properly on *some* Nano devices.  Maybe something else needs to be done to make it work on all devices or maybe some cannot handle it.  Your argument for not reverting to 75MHz is not too convincing.

Quote

And again, the problem doesn't happen in the processor: If we were running the processor faster than it is supposed to be safe to run, you would see different symptoms.


What makes you say that?  The problems I see look like processor problems due to overclocking or overheating.  Anyhow, hurray for open source. Here's a build based on that latest SVN source http://python.ca/nas/rockbox/ with only the maximum clockrate changed to 75MHz.  At least people with non-working nanos can test all the changes that happened since r14004.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 15, 2007, 06:00:31 PM
Please put unsupported builds in the unsupported build forum as per the posting guidelines.

Your statements make little sense.

1) In purely processor intensive procedures, the problem has not shown up in testing. Suggesting strongly it's not just the processor.

2) The person who knows most about it thinks it's ATA timing. As every problem seems to involve a read from the flash, this corroborates his hypothesis very strongly.

Between these two facts, it looks very likely the processor isn't the problem, but rather the problem is with the use of other hardware that is highlighted by the new CPU speed setting.

That would mean "80mhz is working properly, but something else never was and we just couldn't see it clearly before." This is especially further highlighted by the people who've reverted to a build from before the clock changes and said "I'm still noticing some instability" as it suggests, to me, that the problem was always there and perhaps just infrequent enough for people to assume it was "free software is always a little bit buggy" or something similar.

What evidence do you have to suggest that the problem occurs specifically in the processor and not in any other hardware? One problem I see here is that people are jumping to conclusions. Correlation does not imply (in the definition of the word pertaining to structure logic) causation. But people seem to think it does. "The problem showed up with the 80mhz change, therefor it must BE the 80mhz change" is not a logically sound statement. "The problem showed up with the 80mhz change, so the 80mhz change makes it more visible" is, but people seem to be disinterested in actually spending time doing thorough testing.

For example, you could device a test that runs the cpu boosted for a long period, but doesn't hit the disk, and see if you experience a data abort.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Skaffen on October 16, 2007, 07:36:55 AM

I disagree. While we're of course happy that a lot of people find Rockbox useful - the project is not about providing end users with a product, and never has been. Bugs that don't exist on a developer's hardware are impossible to fix - and there's no incentive for a Rockbox developer with a working Nano to revert it to some old code for what, to them, is no good reason. So the only way to get a fix for this issue is for someone who HAS the bug to get a clue, and try to help fix it.


I understand that it's not about providing end-users with a product; however when end-users report bugs often rockbox developers do fix them. It's just in this case the bug is such that it can't be reproduced at the moment on the hardware owned by anyone with the skills to take a look into it. When someone whines and you set that out to them they'll be clearer on the situation and not alienated (hopefully). Of course if they continue to wail, by all means set fire to them :)

What's partly muddied it in the minds of end-users is that it was working on their nano for ages and now after a change it's not.


1) The PP chip was originally run at 75 mhz because we had not yet discovered the right way to clock it to 80mhz, simple as that. I think that's a very reasonable reason for not doing it yet: We didn't know how to do it the right way. We still had more to learn about the chips first. The problems over 75 came from incomplete knowledge, but we have someone who spent time investigating and figured out what needed to be done to set it to 80 properly.


Presumably it wasn't technically that it couldn't be set to 80mhz before (as I would guess if you can set it to 75mhz you knew how to specify the speed), but that setting it to 80mhz instead of 75mhz with the initialisation technique known at the time caused instability on a wider range of hardware? Why 75mhz rather than, say 70mhz? Has 80mhz been now chosen as the max speed because that's the advertised top core speed of the PP5020 chip and because it seemed to be stable at that speed when tried at that speed by the developers on their hardware? I'm only asking in case there's anything about the original choice that could inform the discussion about the current issue.


And again, the problem doesn't happen in the processor: If we were running the processor faster than it is supposed to be safe to run, you would see different symptoms.


By processor you mean the core I'm guessing (just to be clear) - I'm not a hardware guy so I don't know if the whole PP5021C-TDF chip can be referred to as a processor, but from glancing at the published spec I see it is a system on a chip with a lot of bits besides the two microprocessors. I guess when people are talking in this thread they need to be careful when reading what people have said to be sure if they're referring to the processor core or referring to the PP5021C-TDF chip as a whole.

If the clock rate of the core affects the functioning of other components within the PP5021C-TDF chip (such as the interface to flash) then it's possible that while the core can be clocked at 80Mhz the PP5021C-TDF as a whole cannot cope with 80Mhz. Of course it could also be the flash hardware outside. Or it could be a problem in the rockbox code not initialising things quite right still or a timing issue in the rockbox code.

If it is just a hardware issue then if people were (as you point out) seeing slight instability even before the clock change then maybe 75 is still too fast for it. (Were they seeing this at 75Mhz or 78Mhz as I think it went from 75 to 78 at some point before going to 80?). The thing is dual core isn't it - can the core speeds set to different speeds and are they usually in rockbox?

To be clear - I'm not saying it is a hardware-can't-cope-with-the-speed issue rather than an issue with the rockbox code (i.e. something that can only be fixed by restricting core speed vs something that could be fixed with the right code), just that from what's said so far both are possibilities and neither can be ruled out.

I'm not sure how one would prove if it's a bug in the IDE timing code or an extra initialisation problem vs unstable part of PP5021C-TDF chip at high core speeds vs unstable external part of nano hardware (flash) when core is at high speeds.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on October 16, 2007, 07:42:58 AM
By "processor" I did in fact mean the core. Of which until recently we were only using a single of the two.

My point was more or less the same as yours "we can't know what's going on until more testing is done, but everyone seems more interested in leaping to conclusions" but I do believe that evidence suggests it's not the CPU core itself at fault, but rather some other part of the SOC or some other hardware, and that the problem is brought out by the new clock settings (also note the use of the word "suggests").

As for the 78 to 80mhz change, it happened over a very short period, and also came with some new clock setup code I believe, which I believe there's a high confidence in being "right".

As for the 75 mhz, I don't know the history of that, but I believe it was chosen by the iPodLinux guys as "The fastest speed they're stable at" but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: danhibiki on October 16, 2007, 03:08:53 PM
I'm jumping back on this topic again, Rockbox still doesn't work properly here, but this version running at 75MHz seems to bem running fine. At least it boots and finds my partitions :)

That would mean "80mhz is working properly, but something else never was and we just couldn't see it clearly before." This is especially further highlighted by the people who've reverted to a build from before the clock changes and said "I'm still noticing some instability" as it suggests, to me, that the problem was always there and perhaps just infrequent enough for people to assume it was "free software is always a little bit buggy" or something similar.


Actually, I brought up some issue with Rockbox a long time ago that's in some way related to this, as you can see it here:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3279.msg23435#msg23435

At that time, everyone thought that my device was defective (and maybe it is, because I think it's the most affected Nano on this topic, the only one with similar behaviours as mine is void303).

I wish I could send my iPod to some developer, but I'm from Brazil and I don't think it's the easiest solution to send my Nano to Europe. Getting it back could be troublesome too, because of import taxes and stuff like that.

Maybe I could help with debugging or something like that, I do have intermediate skills in C, but I have no knowledge on hardware programming, this is the main problem for me.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Skaffen on October 17, 2007, 11:57:54 AM

I'm jumping back on this topic again, Rockbox still doesn't work properly here, but this version running at 75MHz seems to bem running fine. At least it boots and finds my partitions :)

Actually, I brought up some issue with Rockbox a long time ago that's in some way related to this, as you can see it here:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3279.msg23435#msg23435

At that time, everyone thought that my device was defective (and maybe it is, because I think it's the most affected Nano on this topic, the only one with similar behaviours as mine is void303).



Do you have the same problems with the 75mhz max build that nas put up as you had with the version you reported on the topic above? I ask because I believe there have been other changes (initialisation method in particular) since you reported the problem back in 2006. It's not clear from your post if you've tested that the build nas has put up (which is built from a fairly recent codebase with only the max clock rate changed to 75mhz) exhibits the same problem as you had with the build you were running at the time of the forum post you made last year - your only comment that it runs better than the 80mhz build.

I wonder how many nano users who experience problems with the 80mhz build have ever run other applications that require a decent amount of processor time while also having music playing back before the move to 80mhz.

BTW the irony of this amused me when I found a thread about overclocking (I appreciate there's probably a good reason for the stance to have changed - I'm not having a dig by quoting it!):


Different PP chips are rated at different levels. The ones Rockbox use are rated for either 80, 100, or "Unknown, but the chip is believed to be similar to the 100", if I recall.

We stop at 75, and there should be no reason to "need" to go higher than this.

Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: embrion on October 26, 2007, 09:37:29 AM
1. Nice quote, unfortunately there are no answers.
2. Some guy from the Rockbox mailing list said he'd like to  lend his problematic Nano just like Devs suggested. Ppls recommended him, to catch one of them at IRC. It was some time ago, so has any Dev been contacted?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: WauloK on October 30, 2007, 05:53:59 AM
So it looks like there can't ever be a resolution for us Nano owners? ...
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: sadffffff on October 30, 2007, 12:26:52 PM
purely as an observation (im one of the lucky ones who had never had any problems with the nano):

the other day i left my nano in the car in the hot sun, when i came back to play it there was lots of distortion, a little scrambling, and the music sped up and slowed down while playing mp3s. i held it out the window to cool it off as i was driving and even while cold it did not fix the problem, i had to restart the player and then it went away. (also note that my rb build is several months old, so dont take this as an observation on a recent build incase anything has changed. i will post back with the version)

(edit: Version: r14203-070805)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 05, 2007, 09:22:44 AM
Has this problem been fixed? My 1st gen Nano is doing the "No partition found" thing. I just upgraded it from a July build that was working fine. I have searched this forum for a solution and carefully re-read the install guide in case something has changed.
I've tried upgrading the bootloader, ipodcatcher v2.0 shows the partition okay:
[INFO] Scanning disk devices...
[INFO] Ipod found - 1st Generation Nano ("winpod") - /dev/sdc
[INFO] Reading partition table from /dev/sdc
[INFO] Sector size is 512 bytes
[INFO] Part    Start Sector    End Sector   Size (MB)   Type
[INFO]    0              63        160649        78.4   Empty (0x00)
[INFO]    1          160656       3984119      1866.9   W95 FAT32 (0x0b)
[INFO] Ipod model: 1st Generation Nano ("winpod")

I've reformatted the FAT32 partition and unzipped .rockbox into the root folder again with no luck. Basically I've tried everything I can think of. I'm running r15469-071105
Anybody got any ideas? How has it got so broken like this? Rockbox had been running for over a year on my Nano with no problems. My Nano is now useless :(

UPDATE
I have just installed the http://python.ca/nas/tmp/rockbox-nano-14986.zip version and my Nano now fires up fine. So I can be added to the dud 80MHz club.
I don't understand this. Why can't there be a release with the clock set lower to help us out? You know, be nice to each other instead of arguing? I ran Rockbox all the time for months without problems before.  
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: AlexP on November 05, 2007, 10:49:43 AM

I don't understand this. Why can't there be a release with the clock set lower to help us out? You know, be nice to each other instead of arguing? I ran Rockbox all the time for months without problems before.  


This has been answered many times.  Principally it is if we cover up the issue rather than fix it properly it will not get fixed.  The problem is not thought to be caused by the increase in clock rate, just exposed by it.  I know it is inconvenient for some users, but rockbox hasn't officially been released, and if everyone just ignores the problem it won't get fixed.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 05, 2007, 11:09:17 AM


I don't understand this. Why can't there be a release with the clock set lower to help us out? You know, be nice to each other instead of arguing? I ran Rockbox all the time for months without problems before.  


This has been answered many times.  Principally it is if we cover up the issue rather than fix it properly it will not get fixed.  The problem is not thought to be caused by the increase in clock rate, just exposed by it.  I know it is inconvenient for some users, but rockbox hasn't officially been released, and if everyone just ignores the problem it won't get fixed.

I understand, but I also believe you cannot leave it totally broken for many weeks like this. It renders Rockbox completely unusable on affected Nano's. Surely some middle ground can be found here? Perhaps a config item? Just saying "Someone needs to post their Nano to a developer" isn't going to get us far. Like I say, I used Rockbox for many months without problems.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: AlexP on November 05, 2007, 11:18:28 AM

Just saying "Someone needs to post their Nano to a developer" isn't going to get us far.


Just in the same way that putting it back to how it was isn't going to get us very far.

You can edit the code and build your own one  to reduce the clock speeds if you really want.  I don't know whether a config item would work, but I'm pretty sure it is unlikely to happen either way.

I do sympathise with you, and I'm not the one who takes any decision either way, I'm just explaining the position and the reasons behind it to you.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 05, 2007, 11:30:31 AM


Just saying "Someone needs to post their Nano to a developer" isn't going to get us far.


Just in the same way that putting it back to how it was isn't going to get us very far.

You can edit the code and build your own one  to reduce the clock speeds if you really want.  I don't know whether a config item would work, but I'm pretty sure it is unlikely to happen either way.

I do sympathise with you, and I'm not the one who takes any decision either way, I'm just explaining the position and the reasons behind it to you.

I think you guys are coming at this from a very technogeek angle. Most people won't have the means or skillset to do their own custom builds. So they will just not use Rockbox. This is not good for the project.

Is there any technical reason why this could not be a config item? It could default to the lower clock rate when booting up, then read the config item and switch to the higher speed if it's been set. If it fails you merely then have to mount the disk and change the setting back. The lucky people with tolerant Nano's could then choose to use the higher rate and the people like me can still use Rockbox.  A practical solution to a technical problem IMHO. At least every Nano owner could then benefit from Rockbox.

I was pretty upset when I thought I'd lost the use of it after I upgraded today. Rockbox is too cool to allow politics to lock out loads of potential users surely.

Just explaining my position ;)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on November 05, 2007, 11:54:55 AM

I think you guys are coming at this from a very technogeek angle. Most people won't have the means or skillset to do their own custom builds. So they will just not use Rockbox. This is not good for the project.


How is it not good for the project ? As has been stated many times - Rockbox is not a product looking for users - it's a project written by some nice people who happen to share that work with the rest of the world for no charge whatsoever. No-one is owed a build that just happens to work for them at the expensive of fixing this the right way.

Quote

I was pretty upset when I thought I'd lost the use of it after I upgraded today. Rockbox is too cool to allow politics to lock out loads of potential users surely.


It's not politics - it's about doing things properly.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 05, 2007, 12:03:11 PM

How is it not good for the project ? As has been stated many times - Rockbox is not a product looking for users - it's a project written by some nice people who happen to share that work with the rest of the world for no charge whatsoever. No-one is owed a build that just happens to work for them at the expensive of fixing this the right way.



What a strange attitude. I would have thought you would have liked as many people as possible to enjoy Rockbox. It's a great project. It might also encourage loads of new people to contribute if they like it. I don't expect that much and I certainly don't demand anything. Nothing has happened on this problem for weeks and I am suggesting a practical work around that will make a lot of people very happy. Surely this is a good thing?
So what about this config idea of mine? Possible or not possible at a technical level? ;)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: AlexP on November 05, 2007, 12:20:28 PM
We (I use we in inverted comma's mainly meaning I) would like as many people as possible to enjoy the project, but that doesn't mean compromising and using a fudge instead of a proper fix.  Rockbox is written by coders primarily for themselves.  If other people enjoy it brilliant, and we do our best to help people enjoy it (how many people spend time coding and fixing features they never use, or spend ages helping people on these boards?).  However we don't want to put if half-arsed fudges when we know it isn't the real fix.

You said you suggested a work around, and that is all it is.  "We" want to do it the right way, not hide it with a work around.  As I have said before, personally I am rather ambivalent on this particular issue as it is a rather major problem, not just an annoyance (I suspect I would feel more strongly if I had a Nano).  I can see both sides of the arguement, and really do sympathise.  However, that is the current position of the "project" (such as it has one).


So what about this config idea of mine? Possible or not possible at a technical level? ;)


I don't know.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on November 05, 2007, 04:01:39 PM
It's possible, but it 100% defeats the purpose. If it defaults to the non-bug case, why don't we just comment out the buggy setting, and ALWAYS have it in the non-bug case, and not fudge around with a config setting? It's essentially the same thing.

If the problem is not bothering people, the priority goes from "Somebody really needs to fix this" to "Oh, it'll keep until someone gets around to it."

Technical skills are something learned, not something genetic. Saying "Most of us don't have the technical skills to make our own build" means the exact same thing as "This isn't important enough for us to take a half hour to learn to do what is necessary to make our own limited workaround, so we feel YOU should cover up the problem instead of us having to spend a wee bit of time learning something."

Making your own build is probably less complicated than half the tasks you do on your computer anyway, and that's assuming you're someone who's computer experience is limited to web browsing, Microsoft Word, and email checking. It may look complicated because they're things you've never done before, but once you've done it once it's apparent how simple the basic process is, and that's all you'll need.


As for a question of politics: It's not. It's entirely possible that a temporary fix will go in some day, but if that ever happens it makes it drastically more likely there never will be a permanent fix, or at least it will happen a long time away.

Bugs shouldn't be covered up in pre-release software. You're again making the assumption that you're a "user" and you can choose to call yourself that, but in reality you're a tester. You downloaded a testing version, and if you choose to treat it like a release version, we can't really stop you, and if you choose not to help with testing, feedback, and development, nobody can force you to do that. But how you choose to use the software doesn't magically mean that you have become the new target audience.

Yes, it'd be nice to have more people using it. But it'd be nice to have them using a properly working software, rather than an ever growing pile of hacks and workarounds where bugs haven't been and now can't be fixed the right way, as that results in even worse software in the end. So bugs should be visible, then fixed, rather than hacked away as quickly as possible and forgotten until your software is so patchwork that the interplay of hacks makes it nearly impossible to maintain.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 04:14:22 AM
The thing is, this might be a physical rather than a software issue. You could very well be setting all the chip registers just fine. It could be though that there is an issue of the PCB out there that has a layout problem that causes timing faults. Nothing you then do in software will fix it. This is  a surprisingly common problem. In such cases the only way to proceed is to provide a work around. Otherwise nobody with that particular version of the PCB will ever get their device to work. The problem is you'll never get Apple to admit that there's a faulty version of the PCB out there. Who knows, their firmware might detect the PCB version and ramp the clock down slightly. Without cracking open loads of Nano's we'll never know.
So if this is the case and it is a hardware bug, what do you suggest? Do nothing?

I truly applaud your purist software ideals, but as a hardware engineer I know practicality sometimes is required in such cases. My suggestion seems simple and sensible to me.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on November 06, 2007, 04:32:53 AM
Then take the time to learn how to supply your own workaround if that's what you want.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 04:41:08 AM

Then take the time to learn how to supply your own workaround if that's what you want.

Just trying to help all those poor Nano owners who can no longer run Rockbox. I am lucky enough to have the skill set to be able to code this, other mere mortals have not.
Now the question is, if I do provide this workaround, will it be accepted into the Rockbox code base?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on November 06, 2007, 04:48:30 AM
No - as has been said many times.

People that want a workaround for this will have to do it themselves. If you wish to provide an unsupported build for those who can't / won't take the time to learn how to do it themselves, then you may host it in the Unsupported Builds forum.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 04:55:48 AM

No - as has been said many times.

People that want a workaround for this will have to do it themselves. If you wish to provide an unsupported build for those who can't / won't take the time to learn how to do it themselves, then you may host it in the Unsupported Builds forum.

Okay. I'll do that. It's been nice to meet such a friendly bunch of people.
Is there a thread that discusses the clock rate change from 75 to 80MHz and why it was done?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: pixelma on November 06, 2007, 05:33:59 AM
There already is one that provides this in the unsupported builds forum... ;) It seems to be updated in regular intervals as well.

Search is your friend.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on November 06, 2007, 05:44:56 AM

Is there a thread that discusses the clock rate change from 75 to 80MHz and why it was done?
Thanks!


Yes. This one.

See this post : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11504.msg100225#msg100225
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 05:48:07 AM

There already is one that provides this in the unsupported builds forum... ;) It seems to be updated in regular intervals as well.

Search is your friend.

I can't actually find why the clock was upped to 80MHz. Was it based on a paper spec or reverse engineering, for example?
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: GodEater on November 06, 2007, 05:48:59 AM
Llorean's post answers that question - please read it.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 06:16:48 AM

Llorean's post answers that question - please read it.

We both must've been replying at the same time, so I didn't see your link. :) Thanks for heads up.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 06:30:33 AM
Okay. I've had time to read the whole multi-page post now. I have to say that I do find it odd what has gone on here. From what I can see, the clock was upped to 80MHz for no real solid reason other than "technically and theoretically it can be done". People then reported that is caused problems and the change was not reverted. This is the first time I've seen this happen on Rockbox.

As an embedded hardware engineer, I have to say that this has all the classic symptoms of a device that is being clocked beyond it's limit. I cannot see anything to disprove this. Later Nano's probably cope due to a different PCB issue or a later batch of core (later batches always tend to overclock better). When you overclock a chip you will get all sorts of weird behaviour. It will upset bus and memory timings that may make it look like another part is at fault. The very fact that this has gone unfixed for many weeks indicates to me that this is hardware related. Just my professional opinion ;)

Thanks to Neil Schemenauer for providing a 75MHz build. It works great on my Nano.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: Llorean on November 06, 2007, 09:19:01 AM
We know that the PP502x series chips used in iPods either have a speed of 80mhz or 100mhz. We chose 80 as a maximum rather than clock different iPods at different speeds.

Whatever the problem is seems not to be with the clock speed itself, but as I've said, with timing relative to some other piece of hardware in the device.

If it truly, truly is a hardware fault that prevents certain devices from working, then coding a fix for it isn't a workaround any more: It's a fix.

Until such time as it's actually identified what's wrong, 80mhz is known to be a speed that is valid for the processor, and evidence suggests the problem is actually in other hardware in the device not being used quite properly.

One of the biggest benefits of going from 75mhz to 80mhz: Music is less likely to skip when the device is under load. Evidence is very, very strong that this processor speed is supported, and plenty of signs suggest it's other hardware in the device is the problem, but as of yet there's no firm evidence that it's a hardware fault, and it could very easily be a case of us not initializing or communicating with that other hardware right yet.

If we do establish though  that the only way to keep these Nanos from crashing is to clock it down, rest assured, it will be done. Our intent isn't to screw over users, it's to get things fixed properly.

As I've said, users have now reported going back to 75mhz and still experiencing these bugs when their device gets too hot, and some have revealed that their device would occasionally glitch like this in the past with them thinking that it was more just "Rockbox isn't done yet" than anything they should be reporting, so signs suggest rather strongly that just clocking back to 75mhz isn't going to fix it, just put it in hiding again, and if anything should be done it should be someone investigating the actual problem and looking for a _full_ fix rather than one that goes from "Some people experience it" to merely "Only a few people experience it" because then you're just choosing to screw over less people for your own personal benefits rather than actually concentrate on fixing the problem.

So I think you can see why I favour a real fix: I'd rather the problem be gone for good, and properly fixed.
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: mitchelln on November 06, 2007, 10:28:17 AM
Great response Llorean. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: saratoga on November 06, 2007, 01:03:00 PM
amiconn clocked one of the PP502x chips at 100MHz a while back with no issues, so I don't think its clock speed.  Probably just a matter of us inadvertently using an ATA setting somewhere thats meant for lower clock speeds and not knowing how to fix it (yet).
Title: Re: Latest Rockbox not working on Nano
Post by: soap on November 06, 2007, 06:01:50 PM
In an attempt to clarify and clean this thread - I am going to post what I think stands as the official word.
I am also going to close this thread - as the signal is getting lost amongst the noise.  The same questions keep getting asked again and again, probably because of the eleven pages of thread.

To summarize a conversation I had with amiconn (the developer who changed the maximum clock speed to 80 from 75) earlier tonight:
1 - The Nano is now running at 80Mhz, not because the original firmware does, but because an overwhelming preponderance of the evidence suggests this is correct.
2 - The Nano uses the exact same processor as the Video.  The iPod Video is the most popular Rockbox target.  If there was a problem running this processor at 80Mhz, the complaints of problems with the Video would far overshadow the numbers of those (myself included) with Nano problems.




< Soap > amiconn, Do I recall correctly that you said that 80 is what you found the Original Firmware uses?
< amiconn > no
< amiconn > I said that 80 is what the OF goes up to when load is high. That's based on the PP product briefs
< amiconn > H10 and Sansas definitely use 80MHz, because that's what they have set when our bootloader takes control
< amiconn > iPods come out of their loader with the pll disabled (i.e. running at 24MHz)
< amiconn > Well, the PP5020 is specced up to 80 MHz. H10 uses PP5020, and comes out of its bootloader at 80MHz
< amiconn > PP5022 is specced up to 100MHz. Sansa uses PP5022/5024, and comes out of its bootloader at 80MHz
< amiconn > PP5021 has no product brief, and identifies itself as PP5022 when reading the respective registers
< amiconn > So I'm 99% sure that PP5021 is just a PP5022 that doesn't reach the full 100MHz specs
< amiconn > And the 5021 in the Nano running *slower* than the 5020 in the mini 1st gen, 4th gen grayscale, and color is *very* unlikely
< Soap > and the Video runs at 80 fine, suggesting yet again that the processor can do 80.
< amiconn > Additionally, there already *is* an ata problem on the nano which is just hacked around
< amiconn > The video runs fine even at  >80MHz
< amiconn > (ask w1lliam)
< Soap > (at least those tested do) We do have a massive test basis for 80 on the video.
< amiconn > yeah