Rockbox Technical Forums

Installation / Removal => Manual Installation => Apple - Installation/Removal => Topic started by: killo777 on July 06, 2007, 09:27:08 AM

Title: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 06, 2007, 09:27:08 AM
Hi,

with the version r13733-070629, i installed, play music.....than I switched off and next day i could´nt switch on anymore.

I read the threads from here, i can tell you that for sure i was reading differents forums in internet to look for a solution, I use the  Menu+select (more than 1 minute) and the hold button on- off and then 1 minu Mune+select, doesn´t work.

With an older version i didn´t have this problem, it is only with this version.
I can hear the hard disk doing some move, it is like it is in a loop.

any idea? any kind of help please?

I am waiting till the battery is empty, so i think that will be the only one way to recover my ipod

Could be very nice to hear aynthing from you, thanks :'(

Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 06, 2007, 12:20:34 PM
If it doesn't switch on - the battery is already dead. Give it a good long charge (2 hours or so) - ideally using a wall charger.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 06, 2007, 01:34:27 PM
thanks for the hint, but....

it can not be because I charged it before i disconected  from the computer and switch off

and like I said before, i can hear the hard disk running, like doing loops... sounds like.....
pi ..pi ....pi.-...pi...pi    ;)  i was just trying    :o
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: bluebrother on July 06, 2007, 02:24:39 PM
well, the Menu + Select reset is a hardware thing on the Ipod. It _does_ work and it _needs to_ work. If not, the battery is flat or you have a different hardware problem. Switching on is definitely not related to Rockbox.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 06, 2007, 04:27:42 PM

thanks for the hint, but....

it can not be because I charged it before i disconected  from the computer and switch off

and like I said before, i can hear the hard disk running, like doing loops... sounds like.....
pi ..pi ....pi.-...pi...pi    ;)  i was just trying    :o


Means nothing that you think you charged it from your computer - you might have managed to find a low mA USB port and it didn't really impart a charge at all.

The symptoms you describe sound EXACTLY like there's no charge left in it.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 08, 2007, 09:49:31 AM
I said before that i can hear a click sound from the ipod connector, i think that it is the hard disk.
so that is the reason that I am saying that I am 100% sure that the battery is not empty, because in case of an empty battery i will not hear a click inside the ipod.

So please, can anybody really help me, no one has a problem with the ipod80 gb.

I forgot to say that i had the same problem with  my first ipod80gd, I was able to get a new replacement from apple warranty and I used again the rockbox in my new ipod full charged, that is the reason i think is a rockbox bug

Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 08, 2007, 10:52:37 AM
Would you please just stop arguing with us and CHARGE your ipod?

It's very unlikely you've run the battery down low enough to get no activity at all - so what you're hearing is very likely the iPod trying to power up, and then shutting down again when it doesn't get enough voltage.

It's most definitely NOT a Rockbox bug as if it won't power on - no code of ours can possibly be running.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 09, 2007, 04:07:00 AM
don´t worry,
 i am trying to be positive and solve a problem, for sure your are  the expert and i am only the end user ??? ;D

I am charging my ipod with the usb in a laptop ibm lenovo R60, usb 2.0, two hours and nothing is happening.

let´s try put everything together:
1.- I am using rockbox in my ipod 5g 80gb since juni without any problem
2.- with the version r13733-070629 start having this switch on problem, I can sure that the ipod is 100% charged but not reaction to MENU+SELECT
3.- last week I changed my ipod for a new one from the apple store (warranty) and I tried again the same rockbox version in the new ipod, next day i had the same problem, the day before was the ipod conected to the pc , so battery was 100% charged.


anybody with the same problem? how can i discharge my ipod faster? I still hear clicks inside the ipod, it is like the hard disk looping, perhaps i can stop it once the battery is empty

and really guys....i was the whole weekend charging the ipod, this morning again and nothing happens...and please, don´t ask me to charge it with a wall charger

I have to say that i can not live with my ipod without the rockbox...

thanks
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 09, 2007, 04:11:09 AM
So, since Rockbox doesn't handle the bootup, are you *sure* your computer didn't stop giving enough charge?

That's a clear possible solution, your USB port stopped providing as much power, due to some failure, and so now you can't charge the iPod as well as you should be able to.

As you've been told, Rockbox doesn't control bootup, and Rockbox can't prevent Menu+Select, so despite the correlation of "I installed this version of Rockbox" and "Problems started happening", there's a distinct unlikeliness that Rockbox is the problem. As I've pointed out, there are other correlations to bear in mind.

And a click click click is almost exactly the sound one would hear from an iPod without enough power to spin up a disk, but trying anyway, as was said earlier.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 09, 2007, 04:33:58 AM
ok,

thanks,
the thing is that i was trying to charge from differents computers, at home and at the office (this morning) and before i never had this problem.....

so it means, i need a wall charger? no so easy to get.....uhm....or any idea or program where i can check if my usb port is giving out mA?
in any case, i check my usb cable with another ipod and i can say that it is ok, so my usb cable is not broken.

I will try to see what can i do

Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 09, 2007, 04:38:56 AM
Have you tried charging your iPod with a different cable, instead of trying your cable on a different iPod (if it's giving low power, the other iPod will probably say it's charging, just because it detects *any* power)?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 10, 2007, 03:00:00 AM
i got a wall dc adapter and still not working.....

i bought yesterday a new dc adapter and was more than 4 hours connected....no reaction from my ipod....

today i got a new wall charger from a friend....one hour and the same, no reaction from my ipod....

so, ladys and gentlemen.......what am i doing wrong?....i can still hear the click click from the hard disk....how can i recover my ipod again......

It is a shame because this one is a new one that i got because i had the same problem with my old ipod and rockbox...so i changed for a new one and the same problem.....i tell you again, i am having only this problem since the release r13733-070629.

I need my ipod and i need rockbox......what can i do? any suggestion?

thanks
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Febs on July 10, 2007, 03:22:28 AM
You haven't said whether you have followed the suggestions earlier in the thread to reset your iPod using the Menu + Select combination.  Have you?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 10, 2007, 03:39:19 AM
ok, sorry, i thought that it was supposed to be done


ja, after the long charge i try a hard reset Menu+Select (pressing long time >40 sec) and with the hold key on-off first
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: mamboman on July 10, 2007, 04:58:35 AM
the reset seems quite inconsistent to me, sometimes it takes 5 seconds, it can take up to 40 seconds.. very odd
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 10, 2007, 05:28:44 AM
I have an idea, i will try now the other way around, to try to empty my battery, so i can stop the hard disk doing this click click....like a failed file access.

anybody know how can i empty the ipod battery in a fast way?

........ i am missing so much my ipod with rockbox......

........ am i the only one having this problem? i will start thinking bad things about me  :-\
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 10, 2007, 06:27:50 AM
What is it about "your ipod battery is already dead, that's why the drive is going "click click"" that you're having difficulty understanding ?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 10, 2007, 07:11:24 AM
because it is extrange that i had an ipod with that problem (rockbox software, click click and not switch on) , i got a new one using my warranty and the same problem....so 2 ipod with 2 battery problem ???  uhm..... it could be but it is hard to believe it....

in any case, i will try today to change again the ipod for a new one....i know that they will ask me what i did but i am going to show my angelical face like if i didn´t do anything bad....really, i didn´t do anything bad  ;D
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: bluebrother on July 10, 2007, 09:04:39 AM
Why don't you just CHARGE your Ipod?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 10, 2007, 09:18:24 AM
let me tell you something bluebrother

sorry, but your comment is not nice and now you are getting me ungry really ungry


the whole weekend chargind the ipod, i bought the wall charger and i got another charger from a friend....

or your learn to have respect for the people or your learn to read the whole thread before you throw away some kind of comments like that

I feel sorry about you, but you got it man....i see now that i can not get any help here
......Charge the ipod.....your are so funny ...... >:( >:( >:

Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 10, 2007, 12:08:44 PM
If your battery is truly as dead as it sounds it may take as long as 42 hours of charging to get it back into a working state. You can keep taking it back to Apple every time you do this - but it seems a little silly to me.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: bascule on July 10, 2007, 12:56:32 PM
iPods do this. Please listen to the advice and see my similar experience here:

http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9938.msg76488#msg76488
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: bluebrother on July 10, 2007, 04:58:39 PM
or your learn to have respect for the people or your learn to read the whole thread before you throw away some kind of comments like that

Well. You shouldn't accuse people unless you are really sure -- I read the whole topic. And the symptoms you describe are exactly what happens when the battery is *completely* flat. Unless you have a real hardware issue (which is highly unlikely if you just got the Ipod) it *is* the battery. A couple of people already told you that you need to charge the Ipod, but you seem to desperately searching for another issue by repeating your arguments. This doesn't change the fact that these are definitely the symptoms for a completely flat battery, and it doesn't change that this doesn't have anything to do with Rockbox. Do you call it "respect for people" if you continue to ignore the advice (and even explanations)?

I'm really sorry for you getting angry because someone is a bit more directly in telling you what to do. Maybe I should stop watching this thread and trying to be helpful ...
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 11, 2007, 02:47:02 AM
yeah, i am sorry too, because your comment was not helpful

i am always trying to be helpful aswell, if you read the thread you can see that i was charging the ipod, i will tell you more....i was charging for a long time with differents options (different usb cable, different wall charger...) so you can see that i was using the hints from all of you.....that is not the point....the point is that i am than more than 3 days only charging my device ....and then..... come a new comment to me that i have to charge the ipod....so it makes me feel like i am stupid, that i have to go to take english classes or that anybody takes me seriourly

anyway, was so sad yesterday to see any support beside to be charging the ipod that i went to changed for a second time in a week to an apple store.....what a shame.... they still have it, i hope to get a new one....


I love the rockbox but guys..... my living is doing test software (i am a tesing software engineer) for a big company..... i am know what i am doing.....so believe me....the battery was really, really really charged.....

so please, bluebrother, don´t take me wrong but your comment was out of place after my hard trying charing the ipod from differents ways.....
and yeah,.... i am trying always to support with ideas.....


we can stop
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 11, 2007, 02:55:42 AM
All you described were attempts at short charges, and then failure. You never once stated that you attempted a prolonged (20+ hour) charge, treating the battery as if it were completely depleted.

As we are not psychic, how could we possibly know you had done something you never told us you did?

Being a software tester yourself, surely you know the value of accurately describing your actions to those attempting to understand what is happening. As well, surely you understand the fact that since Rockbox is not running when your problem is happening (since it's during boot, and after hard reset) that whatever problem you're having is either hardware in nature, or due to a flaw in the Apple firmware. Since the Apple firmware seems to work for most people, the most logical conclusion is that it's a hardware issue. Following that, the symptoms you describe match almost exactly a disk without enough power to spin up: you yourself even said it sounds like the disk is catching. This leads to the assumption that something is preventing the disk from spinning up, and a likely cause is failure of the device to charge properly.

So, let me ask this explicitly: Have you charged your player from a *known good* source (one that charges other iPods) for a full charge period (24 or so hours)?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 11, 2007, 06:00:59 AM
ok,

let´s take it in the right way.

for sure i wasn´t 24 hours with the right charger, why? because a test with 8 hours can show me if i am charging the ipod.

1.- It could be a problem with the battery, but, i found a reproducible problem. With two ipods 80 gb i had the same failure problem, with the build r13733-070629. My ipod  is always with battery full because i have it connected to the laptop when i am working or at home....so i am always sure to have it charged.

The problem is, from one day to the other day i can not switch on anymore the ipod but i can hear a click, click from the hard disk before i am trying to do a hard reset, so....

2.- i am hearing the click always, incluiding when it is charging or when i have it on the table ( ok , you have to put the ipod near your ear to hear it).

3.- i don´t know how do you do the disk access, but i knew that at the begining of the implementation of rockbox with ipod80gb there were problems with the cluster access, so i supposed that could be related if my ipod is blocked trying to get access to some point of the hard disk

4.- the problem is that i can not make any log file or whatever to see what happen, i can understad that the problem is regarding the battery because that happened to other users....ok, that i got it and i try it...but i can now sure 100% that in my case was not the problem
 :-X regarding themes files or wps?? i don´t know

6.- in any case i am going to wait if i get a new ipod and then i will try to install a new version......

7.....because without RockBox ..... I don´t want to have an iPod.....

8.- to finish: Thanks to the developers for a great software and let´s try together to improve and develop a great Open Source software for mp3 players.


For me this thread can be closed, i gave yesterday again my ipod to the apple shop, they told me (was the second time in a week) that i will hear from them in a few days  :-X and i hope to get a new one.

If i was so upset is because i love the rockbox and i had two ipods in a week with the same problem....and the only support was....charge the battery, charge the battery.....ok sorry if i wasn´t so clear but that was what i was doing this week....charging the battery from different ways
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 11, 2007, 06:14:12 AM
And you are completely ignoring the fact that Rockbox cannot cause a problem if Rockbox is not running. How do you expect the build of Rockbox to be the problem, if Rockbox isn't running, exactly?

Why do you ask for help, if you absolutely REFUSE to do what you're told? Someone says "Charge it this way" and you say "I don't need to, I already did it a different way." If you know what's wrong, why ask for help? If you don't know what's wrong, why not try what we say, instead of saying "I don't need to."

You are jumping to conclusions "I had a problem twice, and I had Rockbox installed both times." Anyone who's taken a basic class in logic knows that correlation does not imply causation. You also plugged it into your laptop both times. Maybe your USB port managed to short something both times? There are any number of things I'm sure you did both times, but don't believe could be the cause. Did you press the play button on both iPods?

My point is that you've speculated wildly, and refused to do things in a clear manner, and then complained when someone got frustrated that you refuse to actually perform the instructions you got when you requested help. With your next iPod, don't install Rockbox, and see if it develops problems.

Remember, software is deterministic: Given the same instruction set, on properly functioning processors, the same output will result. If this were a simple software bug as you suggested, it would affect everyone that ran the build you quoted, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 11, 2007, 10:58:00 AM

And you are completely ignoring the fact that Rockbox cannot cause a problem if Rockbox is not running. How do you expect the build of Rockbox to be the problem, if Rockbox isn't running, exactly?

Okay, so it might not be Rockbox (I like the faulty USB port idea) but just because it's not running at start-up doesn't rule out Rockbox as the cause. It could well have got the iPod into a state where it couldn't start-up the next time.

A few times with my iPod Rockbox has said that it was shutting down but the iPod has refused to start-up the next time without a hard reset. After the hard reset the battery has been noticeably lower than at the time of the shutdown.

Still, as you say, basic steps should be followed in order to rule anything in/out.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 11, 2007, 01:52:26 PM
Still, though, with you the Hard Reset works. Your case is actually a known glitch that seems to affect 5Gs and Nanos (including those without Rockbox installed, when the Apple firmware chooses to go into 'deep sleep', the equivalent of a Rockbox shut down.)

His description suggests at least that it's attempting to boot up, but unable to continue with the process, and he claimed attempts at hard reset, so it seems very reasonable that his isn't the usual power down glitch.

That being said, I'm open to the possibility that perhaps something else has happened, but if the user's unwilling to actually try everything recommended, it's very difficult to know what's been tried.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 11, 2007, 02:17:36 PM
I guess the only way it could be the same problem was if it was left in the "deep sleep" state long enough to completely drain the battery. That would probably take weeks, if not longer, though (unless it's not as deep a sleep as people think). So, yeah, probably not. :)
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: bluebrother on July 11, 2007, 05:50:22 PM
just because it's not running at start-up doesn't rule out Rockbox as the cause. It could well have got the iPod into a state where it couldn't start-up the next time.

Well, in that case the Apple firmware which is responsible for startup (and not on disk but in the flash memory of the Ipod, so it isn't touched by Rockbox at all) would do some handling. I'm pretty sure it would display something like the sad Ipod image or the "contact apple" notice if the disk is completely unreadable.

I guess the only way it could be the same problem was if it was left in the "deep sleep" state long enough to completely drain the battery.

As far as I know the Ipod turns itself completely off after some time in the deep sleep state. It's be a couple of days but I don't know about the actual values.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 12, 2007, 04:41:11 AM
You're assuming it's actually shutdown and not in some hung intermediary state.

If it's not in the official "deep sleep" mode but in some kind of purgatory it may be unable to turn off.

Maybe he could try leaving his iPod for a week (to be safe) and then charging for a day or two via AC.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 12, 2007, 04:55:33 AM
If it weren't shut down, the hard reset combination should reset it, though, if performed properly. I assume you're suggesting that, for example, it hung on the write of the settings to disk during shutdown perhaps, not having enough power to perform the write?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 12, 2007, 07:01:44 AM
The hard reset would work, unless the battery had been fully discharged while it was hung. I wouldn't speculate on the cause of the hang. I'm coming from a position of ignorance.

Maybe a string or something could be written as the last action to be performed by the firmware and see if it gets that far when it hangs (see if it's there on next boot, post-hang).
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: killo777 on July 12, 2007, 08:00:37 AM
Hi Lorean,

I was doing what all of you were suggesting to me, i charged with a wall charger and for a long time...... for me long time means more than 4 hours, if you say now that i have to be more than 24 hours charging....ok that is something new for me.

I repeat it. I was doing was i was supposed to do, I charged from differents computers, usb cables and wall charger..... so i was a good boy.....
my complain is only the way to say the things. I was more than 4 days trying to charge the ipod in different ways and then next day i read from a developer..... "Charge the ipod"..... my God!!! that is what i was doing the whole time.

anyway, i will get today my third ipod (i have to say that apple support is working very well to me) and i will try with a new release, so you can see that i believe in all of you and in your work....  ;-)

if i have the same problem i will try this time to charge the ipod during a week if you want me to do it


Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 12, 2007, 08:38:10 AM
My first suggestion would be to never hook it up using the USB cable and port that you hooked the other two up to.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 12, 2007, 09:37:36 AM
My first suggestion would be "don't let the battery run down that flat ever again" :)
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: mrmagic526 on July 12, 2007, 09:48:35 AM
If you ask an apple store when things like this happen you should use a WALL charger and not your USB on your laptop.  I was sitting at the genius bar when a girl with the exact same thing happened.  The apple guy just plugged it into a wall charger and not a usb port and it came right up.  he then went into explaining that the wall charger is a better option than the USB port and that the ipod will respond to that when it won't respond to the USB port.  

Magicman
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 12, 2007, 10:40:38 AM
You read the part where he said he tried a wall charger, right? :p
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 12, 2007, 02:31:51 PM
And you read the part where I said "it may take as long as 42 hours for it to recharge" right ? :P
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 12, 2007, 08:03:47 PM
The wall charger gives twice the current a USB socket can output, I believe. So yes, there is a difference, but that was suggested during the series of things. ;)
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 13, 2007, 10:13:58 AM

And you read the part where I said "it may take as long as 42 hours for it to recharge" right ? :P

Yup, I saw that thanks. :)

I'm disappointed that the iPod is going back (understandable of course). It would have been good if it could have been used to get to the bottom of the problem. I'm sure it will happen again.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: daniel54 on July 15, 2007, 11:14:43 PM
I had this problem with mine, I temporally uninstalled rockbox because of it,
I had to reset the ipod to switch it on after a battery charge, it drained my battery from full!  :-\

I'm telling you this so its known that its not an isolated incident, I don't know much about it, but I'm thinking there might be a bug with the 80GB?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: bluebrother on July 16, 2007, 02:20:26 AM

I'm telling you this so its known that its not an isolated incident, I don't know much about it, but I'm thinking there might be a bug with the 80GB?

There might be an issue with the 80GB hardware or apple firmware. That is nothing we can do anything about -- powering up is controlled by the apple firmware, so if it doesn't power on it is definitely *not* a Rockbox issue.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 16, 2007, 08:22:40 AM

I had to reset the ipod to switch it on after a battery charge, it drained my battery from full!  :-\

Did you charge from within Rockbox? How long between when you charged the iPod and when you next tried to use it?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: daniel54 on July 16, 2007, 06:58:44 PM

Did you charge from within Rockbox? How long between when you charged the iPod and when you next tried to use it?

Charged it for about 10-15 mins and booted it into the emergency disk mode and reset the ipod in itunes to the factory setting and then booted to the apple firmware and then charged the rest of the way.

ps, its a shame its an apple boot loader error, rockbox it really good, would be a shame to have to wave bye to it.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 17, 2007, 05:01:23 AM
Just to be clear,  when you last shut it down (before the problem) were you in Rockbox or the Apple firmware?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: daniel54 on July 17, 2007, 12:06:58 PM

Just ti be clear,  when you last shut it down (before the problem) were you in Rockbox or the Apple firmware?


I was in RockBox.  ;)
Edit: Is a RockBox boot loader too far in the distance?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: GodEater on July 18, 2007, 01:47:01 AM
I assume by Rockbox bootloader, you mean one which resides in the iPod's flash.

To be honest, I can't think of a good reason to do this - the Apple one is usually so reliable, and contains all the emergency routines for things like disk mode and self diagnostics.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: linuxstb on July 18, 2007, 06:17:16 AM

I assume by Rockbox bootloader, you mean one which resides in the iPod's flash.

To be honest, I can't think of a good reason to do this - the Apple one is usually so reliable, and contains all the emergency routines for things like disk mode and self diagnostics.


We would need a fuller understanding of the ipod hardware (to perform all the initialisations we currently rely on the Apple bootloader to do), plus a working USB disk mode, but running Rockbox from flash (we wouldn't just limit it to a bootloader) would give very fast boot-up times, and also allow features such as hibernation of dircache (as implemented on the iriver H100 series when running from flash).

Our own code in flash would also hopefully not share the same extremely slow emergency disk mode that Apple's firmware has on some models, although that wouldn't be needed as often as Rockbox would by that time have its own disk mode.

Another advantage that some people seem to care about is that the ipod would then be running 100% free software - no Apple code left.

I'm sure there are other advantages, but I think we're getting off-topic.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Llorean on July 18, 2007, 07:48:46 AM
It should also resolve the extremely annoying "Low Battery" bug if it ever happens.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 19, 2007, 08:44:13 AM
Here's something I forgot to mention that happens when the iPod fails to start. On hitting reset, when Rockbox boots back up I've noticed that the statusbar is not showing up. The statusbar setting is set to off. This is despite the theme I'm using turning it on as well as having manually set it beforehand.

What could cause something like that? Every other setting remains unchanged as far as I can see.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: LambdaCalculus on July 19, 2007, 08:48:47 AM
I think that bug that was causing settings to not be saved was just squashed earlier.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: DefineByte on July 19, 2007, 08:53:57 AM
The setting was saved though. It remembers it fine, over multiple starts/reboots. It's only when I get the 'fail to switch on' thing that it forgets it (and seemingly only that one setting).

Doesn't sound like the same thing does it?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: prokaryote on July 27, 2007, 08:21:14 AM
I have the same problem with this model of iPod as the starter of this thread.  Seems like it may be in some hang state that runs the battery flat.  This could very well be an issue with the iPod firmware, and it would seem that Apple has some sort of work around because I didn't have any issues prior to installing rockbox.  Of course, without access to their code, reverse engineering the work around may be tough?  I'm trying the recharge from a wall adapter for 48 hrs to see if I can get the (menu + select) to function.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: prokaryote on July 27, 2007, 01:27:45 PM
If it won't recharge, you may have to disconnect the battery and reconnect the battery?  Here's a link to a "how-to" including a place to buy another battery.  

http://www.ifixit.com/iPod-Parts/iPod-Video-60-80-GB-Replacement-Battery/IF195-028

Worst case may have to replace the logic board, see trouble shooting guide.

http://www.ifixit.com/Troubleshoot/iPod5G

Question:
Does Rockbox write to flash other than in the installation process?  I'm just throwing ideas out there.  If it does, then in certain cases (i.e. a hang fire issue) it may corrupt some of the memory and this would require a re-flash to correct.  Recharging may not be possible until the firmware is corrected.  Just an idea, any comments?
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: prokaryote on July 27, 2007, 03:11:25 PM
 ;D  Success!

Disconnect the battery for a few minutes and reconnect and the system will boot up!  Whew! I thought I'd have to buy a new iPod, the wife would have skinned me alive.

So, it's not a corrupted memory issue, but some sort of hang state that prevents recharging, recognition as an USB device and disables the touch wheel until the battery is totally dead.  This can take some time before this occurs, until then the iPod will not recharge.

Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: Chronon on July 27, 2007, 05:41:13 PM
This sounds quite similar to the behavior I saw when I first installed RB on my Gigabeat.  The system was hanging at shutdown and no button presses could be detected.  Since the unit had not shut down it would continue to drain the battery even though it appeared off.  Switching the battery off and then on (disconnecting and reconnecting it) would allow it to be started again.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: mamboman on July 27, 2007, 08:08:15 PM
wow... sounds pretty nasty.. hopefully it does not happen to me. it's a pain to get the ipod repaired even if under warranty
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: MIYU on September 09, 2007, 12:25:51 PM
i think i might have the same problem as killo777, but i'll try to charge my ipod with the a wall charger for 48 hors to see if it will startup.

prior to this i have charge for several days already on and off( mean connecting and disconnecting trying with different cables). when i tried to reset menu+ select (holding it for over 2 mins) i can hear that my ipod is trying to reset or may have reset but fail  to start up every time, for many times. While the ipod is charging (with the wall charger) i can hear that the disc is spinning. Making a small running sound but nothing startup. No icon, no battery charging icon, no light, Just a black screen.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: MIYU on September 09, 2007, 12:31:11 PM
one other thing.

at one time when i connected it to my comp, my comp read it as a removable device but not as a n ipod. But every time it tried to get access to my ipod (removable device) my comp get a not responding and freezed for a awhile and i have to end task it.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: yegods on September 14, 2007, 03:42:29 PM
maybe you connected it while pressing the "menu" button?  that's the behavior i get when i do that.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: kieran on September 30, 2007, 07:30:11 AM
I know this is getting toward heresay, but I also had this problem with my 80gb ipod. I just persisted with the hard reset sequence and it eventually worked. A couple of times I really thought I was in deep fecal matter.. but generally I could get out of it by enough persistance, the odd bit of extended charging and hard resetting. I think it all came down to Rockbox being the culprit. It would screw the battery measurement, run the battery until it was completely flat, and then crap out. Normally, under the Apple/iTunes OS, it'll restart because there is enough juice remaining to boot.. but after rockbox has sucked the battery dry due to dodgy power measurement, it wont start up. I don't know what it's like now, however.. there's been lots of work done on power libraries since I uninstalled.

I didn't uninstall Rockbox due to this matter, but due to the consistent never-ending Hard Disk corruption, cross linking and other false file dumps the Rockbox os would generate on my 80gb ipod. I ended up losing my entire ipod_control dir due to it becoming crosslinked, and (probably due to my own damn fault) chkdsk /f then wiped those crosslinked files upon repair. Generally I'd need to chkdsk every 2 weeks to clear off directory after directory of garbled nonsense, and massive 4gb "files".. maybe the FAT corruption was something to do with the way the new 80gb HDD was being read or written, I don't know. However, I'm not going back to Rockbox until its sorted because I don't want this to keep happening. Its sad, because Rockbox is such a great project and a better tool than itunes.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: soap on September 30, 2007, 08:45:32 AM

...I think it all came down to Rockbox being the culprit. It would screw the battery measurement, run the battery until it was completely flat, and then crap out. Normally, under the Apple/iTunes OS, it'll restart because there is enough juice remaining to boot.

Totally, 100% wrong.
When doing my battery-bench measurements on the iPod video, I would repeatedly drain the iPod down to the point it stopped working, both in the original firmware as well as in Rockbox.
Apple firmware was just as guilty as Rockbox firmware in not leaving a "buffer" for the next reboot.
Title: Re: iPod 5,5 (80Gb) doesn´t switch on anymore
Post by: scharkalvin on October 03, 2007, 11:02:59 AM
Wow this sounds like deja vu.
We have returned 2 80gb ipod videos to Costco that
have gone into zombe mode.  (one was returned twice, the other 3 times
so we have gone through 5 ipods!!!)  They would sometimes bring up
the apple logo and do a click, click on the hard disk.  They could
NOT be shut down after that.  (IE: screen dark, press the play button
to start, maybe get the apple logo, disk go click click, can't shutdown
and remove apple logo or stop disk from clicking until the battery
goes flat).

These units were NOT rockboxed, just running standard apple software.
Two of them went into zombe mode right after a resync with itunes.

So it seems there were some rotten apples out there.  I should have tried
charging them with my homebrew wall charger (just a 5v regulated power supply
connected to a usb cable with both data lines tied to ground).  Oh well,
we did get a complete refund from Costo after returning them for the 5th time!!!!