Rockbox Technical Forums

Support and General Use => Audio Playback, Database and Playlists => Topic started by: runawaywind on July 02, 2007, 05:58:59 PM

Title: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 02, 2007, 05:58:59 PM
I have done the appropriate prerequisites before posting. There were many related posts, but some had poor answers and others gave solutions that don't fully fit my situation.

I have over 150 Playlists in iTunes/iPod and cannot recreate all the m3u's by hand. Many of these are smart playlists that are changed on my computer regularly.

First I looked into TagCache (deprecated term for Database). So I guess I'm already using this since I auto update and all through the Database. What this is missing then is converting playlists (because it converts everything else).

Alternatives that aren't full solutions:
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/4771
This plugin is exactly what I need, but it looks like it's been abandoned. People were having some issues a year ago. Why not just integrate this into the database as default?

The program xplay reads iPod playlists/songs/etc so I could drag each playlist into a separate program to create the playlists, but Xplay is a trial only. This won't work because I constantly manage playlists within iTunes and they get changed accordingly in iPod.

http://www.ericdaugherty.com/dev/itunesexport/
iTunes export only works with the itunesDB (not on iPod), and will write the wrong paths to iPod drive since I sync with iTunes ().

I know that winamp and foobar can create m3u, but I won't be able to make these same playlist without some process that would (in a more automated way) clone the iTunes xml playlists into compatible rockbox m3u (it would takes days to find/sort/order the same playlists).

Thanks. And thumbs up to Rockbox.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 03, 2007, 10:33:14 AM
Seeing as Rockbox is a "replacement" firmware, that only partially offers the ability to run alongside another firmware, why should it add in an option that is only useful specifically if you're *not* using it as a replacement, adding code bloat and a decreased audio buffer for anyone who doesn't use a program not meant to be used with Rockbox in the first place?

There are many programs that can create valid playlists for Rockbox, and I'm sure some can do the equivalent of the iTunes smart playlists. In fact, in many cases one can reproduce that functionality using the Database in Rockbox itself with custom filters.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on July 05, 2007, 04:52:40 PM
http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/4771
This plugin is exactly what I need, but it looks like it's been abandoned. People were having some issues a year ago. Why not just integrate this into the database as default?
Because it would be awful to support: it relies on an unknown file format, which might change anytime.

There is enough software around that can export to m3u playlists. An example is Floola http://www.floola.com/
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 05, 2007, 08:06:50 PM
No problem. I understand it's not an objective to overcome other software, but just wanted to throw it out there. My gripe however, it is not quite as easy to actually replace playlists if it's really to be a r"eplacement." And it sort of defeats the purpose of even developing a database that is meant to copy the iTunesDB if Rockbox is not concerned with the default firmware.

I haven't tried floola yet, but I'm still procrastinating recreating/exporting hundreds of playlists one by one.

I appreciate the replies anyhow.

EDIT: floola does export m3u, but it copies associated files with it. It has no way of actually referring to original files linked to iTunes playlists
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 05, 2007, 08:30:29 PM
The Rockbox database isn't meant to copy the iTunes DB. It's the Rockbox database. It's existed on one form or another since before Rockbox ran on iPods.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on July 06, 2007, 09:24:59 AM
My gripe however, it is not quite as easy to actually replace playlists if it's really to be a r"eplacement."

Rockbox isn't intended to be a replacement firmware that copies the original but a replacement that has nothing to do with the original firmware. It happen to have a similar purpose though ...

IOW, no devs are interested in how the original firmware works. Which also implies the way how things are handled by the original firmware. This applies not only to the database but also to all other aspects of the firmware.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on July 06, 2007, 12:27:54 PM

This applies not only to the database but also to all other aspects of the firmware.


i.e. if you prefer how the original firmware works - then go use it - no-one's making you use Rockbox :)
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 07, 2007, 06:42:44 PM


This applies not only to the database but also to all other aspects of the firmware.


i.e. if you prefer how the original firmware works - then go use it - no-one's making you use Rockbox :)


That makes sense. Unfortunately I am not satisfied with the original firmware. I like certain aspects of both firmwares and realize there are advantages to having both (hence it allows dual boot).

I don't mean to slam Rockbox either. In fact I wrote a favorable review of it at http://liquidparallax.com/2007/07/02/upgrade-your-ipod-with-rockbox/.


The Rockbox database isn't meant to copy the iTunes DB. It's the Rockbox database. It's existed on one form or another since before Rockbox ran on iPods.


I wasn't clear in what I was trying to say. It doesn't copy iTunesDB, but it does scan the contents (audio files) that are associated with it.

In the end this is a trivial problem for me, but maybe there are other devs willing to tackle other problems I describe in my review.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 07, 2007, 08:17:34 PM
It NEVER scans the contents of the iTunes Database. It scans the files present on your player and organizes their metadata into its own database.

If you took the exact same music files and put them on a Gigabeat, you'd have the same results, with not iTunes database present at any point along the way.

If you meant to say "It creates a database from the same music files that iTunes does" then your argument could as easily be turned around to say that iTunes creates one from the same files as our database does, in which case I still don't understand your point.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: saratoga on July 07, 2007, 10:10:18 PM
If you want to import itunes playlists, you should write a plugin that does it.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Exitao on July 08, 2007, 05:03:36 AM
I'm sorry but the answers you're giving this guy seem snobbish and wrong.

iTunes is fricking evil.  Unfortunately it's also the one media manager that handles loading of the iPod properly.  Every other app I've tried has caused small quirks to occur (most common is double loading songs).

But pretty much every iPod related app I've used makes playlists intended for the iPod firmware, which you guys have essentially stated that you want to ignore.

Soundwise, Rockbox is way better than the iPod firmware.  But if I can't import or use the playlists already loaded on my iPod that handle gigabytes and gigabytes of files, it seems like you want people to go back to the original firmware.

You either want your project to be openly accessible and popular (popular enough for people to want to donate and give word-of-mouth referrals, no?), or you want to be elitist gadget hackers.  But you should be clear about your intentions long before I have to come to these forums to find out how much you don't give a crap about what seems relatively important to what I'm sure are a more than a modest number of people.

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 08, 2007, 05:05:29 AM
1) How do you get double songs with drag and drop?
2) What playlist creation functions does iTunes offer that Rockbox does not within its database functionality? Perhaps a feature request to fill in missing functionality in Rockbox might be better received than a "Make Rockbox compatible with a single piece of software that is only compatible with a selection of the players Rockbox runs on" style request.
3) Nobody has denied him his right to create such a plugin and submit it for inclusion.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Exitao on July 08, 2007, 05:20:40 AM

1) How do you get double songs with drag and drop?
2) What playlist creation functions does iTunes offer that Rockbox does not within its database functionality?



1)  Screwed if I know.  But anapod and Media Monkey have both done it.  And the songs show up as doubled in both the iPod firmware and Rockbox.  I've also had songs show up in both the RB DB and iPod and not be playable (corrupt?).  I've never experienced these problems when loading with iTunes (which I detest), so I use this POS software to manage my library and load my iPod.

2)  It's not about Rockbox's creation abilities. Long before I ever found Rockbox I made playlists involving hundreds of songs (or more) so that I could manually drag and drop those lists onto my iPod using iTunes.
Now, the ipod firmware uses those playlists and sounds like crap.   The Rockbox firmware gives me real EQ support and manages to give me bass that Apple never could.  But those playlists don't show up.  There's no way I'm replicating those playlists using that jog wheel.  
It was already time consuming enough on the computer sorting by genre, year, category and etc, and then sending to the various playlists in iTunes to the iPod.
The guy who started this thread is essentially saying something similar.
I've only got a 60gb iPod, but I have hundreds of gigs of mp3s on my pc and I'm pretty sure that iPod capacities and MP3 collections are only going to be growing.
 Â 
3)  Yeah.  Sure.  "We're not interested, do it yourself, we don't care."  So it comes back to my point about this project not being intended for everyone, just the gadget hackers.  Let me just scrounge up the time, inclination and coding experience necessary for me to do it myself. I'll get back to you on my results in about 6 months.  ;-)
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 08, 2007, 05:26:53 AM
That still doesn't address the fact that this is a request to add fluff to Rockbox that only supports one non-standard piece of software that only works with a portion of the players Rockbox supports. Rockbox is not an iPod only project, and one of Rockbox's intents is specifically to free you from a dependence on a specific piece of software by allowing your player to use standard formats.

I humbly suggest that perhaps you file bug reports to the software that doesn't work, instead of suggesting that software that does work should include iTunes specific fluff because while you "don't want to use iTunes" you "have to" since you can't manage to get other software to do what you want.

But, as I said, you can just make a plugin that can convert the playlists if you really want it, but please don't whine about the fact that nobody really seems interested in doing it for you: Most of the core devs do not use iTunes and never will, so it's unlikely they have any real interest in it at all. EVERYBODY HERE IS A VOLUNTEER. If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, why on Earth should anyone who's not going to ever, ever use the feature do it for you?
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 08, 2007, 06:32:41 AM

If you meant to say "It creates a database from the same music files that iTunes does" then your argument could as easily be turned around to say that iTunes creates one from the same files as our database does, in which case I still don't understand your point.

You are correct about my meaning. But your reversed argument does not follow logically. Introductory Logic will teach you {A --> B} is not equivalent to {B --> A}. The reverse statement being "iTunes creates a database according to the file structure of the database (of Rockbox)".

My point (which I intended to be an observation, not a main point) is that Rockbox is capable of using the given file tree that iTunes makes. I just mentioned that because it supports an attribute (the file structure) of the iPod firmware, yet it doesn't support playlists (something I would have liked also supported). We have already discussed the actual issue and I realize that it's a feature that goes beyond the intentions of ROCKbox. I apologize for being unclear.


If you want to import itunes playlists, you should write a plugin that does it.

If I was a little more familiar I would. Since I am just dipping my feet in the software, I am not ready to do so yet. I figured I'd make my voice heard in case there was any info I wasn't aware of. Thank you anyway.

Exitao, thanks for understanding where I am coming from, but I do have trust that the Rockbox community does care. I would love to drop iTunes, but I (1) am not capable of coding my own media player and (2) find it hard to abandon the few things that iTunes is capable of in exchange for software that lacks the features in iTunes.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 08, 2007, 07:04:44 AM
forgive the double post...

Quote
What playlist creation functions does iTunes offer that Rockbox does not within its database functionality?

iTunes offers the ability to create playlists from a computer rather than from the iPod. It also has the capability to create smart playlists using pre-configured criteria without touching a line of code (only drop down and user-input).

I haven't explored dynamic playlists on Rockbox to know whether supported or not, but iTunes is able to refer to other playlists, match checked items, and sort by tag fields. It is also easy to order things the way it needs to be in an efficient manner (such as selecting multiple selections and making custom ordered playlists using criteria from various tags).

Quote
The guy who started this thread is essentially saying something similar.
I've only got a 60gb iPod, but I have hundreds of gigs of mp3s on my pc and I'm pretty sure that iPod capacities and MP3 collections are only going to be growing.

I am in complete agreement and in the same boat. I've got the 60G, with much more than that on my computer. So I need a compatible solution that is mutual between the iPod and the computer (so I can do my dirty work without using the hamster wheel to scroll).

Ideally, I would have a marriage of Rockbox and foobar2000, but together they miss what are some great functions. It does not support playcount and ratings between the firmware and media player. Granted it might be foobar's problem, but it lacks the ease of use and support that iTunes/iPod combo has. Apple has obviously made it hard to do without it. If you would like to enlighten me about how others use rockbox with a second library on a computer without iTunes, I'd love to get ideas.

Llorean is right that I can't manage to get other software to do what I want, but Rockbox is founded on this fact. Rockbox does things that other software/firmware can't do.  That's why I like it.

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: robin0800 on July 08, 2007, 11:14:45 AM
Are you aware that rockbox already has these WPS Tags
%rp  Song playcount  
%rr  Song rating (0-10). This tag can also be used in a conditional tag, %?rr<0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10>  
which implies some asspects of smart tags are already in place.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 08, 2007, 03:32:19 PM
The file structure is NOT an attribute of the iTunes firmware. It is simply files on a disk though, that's where your logic is incorrect. They are simply files on a disk, if you move them to any other disk, they're still the same files on a disk.

I know that A->B is not equivalent to B->A, but I understand your statement to mean that Rockbox parallels iTunes' database. In absolutely NO way does Rockbox incorporate a part of it, and I think that's where your understanding is flawed since you seem to think it does.

If Rockbox takes MP4 metadata and makes a database, and iTunes takes MP4 metadata and makes a database, what part of that involves Rockbox using part of the iTunes' database? If their database is present, or not, or even if you delete their database afterward, Rockbox's will continue to work as long as the files are left on the disk in their position.

Rockbox accepts *any* positioning of files. It's a simple as that. As long as iTunes copied the files anywhere to the disk on a FAT32 partition, Rockbox would be able to add them to its database.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 08, 2007, 06:52:29 PM

The file structure is NOT an attribute of the iTunes firmware. It is simply files on a disk though, that's where your logic is incorrect. They are simply files on a disk, if you move them to any other disk, they're still the same files on a disk.


OK, here's the deal. We are in agreement, we just have different ways of explaining it. My beginning posts were referring to the iTunesDB incorrectly. After re-explaining, I thought I was clear.

I do think the directories and filenames as an attribute of the original iPod firmware. We can continue arguing for hours for linguistic reasons, but I'd rather not because it doesn't solve anything. I define an attribute as an abstraction of a characteristic of an entity or substance. The original iPod firm has, without a doubt, a distinct directory structure. The "simply files on a disk" (an abstraction) were put in place (a characteristic) in this case by an entity other than Rockbox. Rockbox just reads, whereas iTunes writes it to the iPod disk.

Quote

I know that A->B is not equivalent to B->A, but I understand your statement to mean that Rockbox parallels iTunes' database. In absolutely NO way does Rockbox incorporate a part of it, and I think that's where your understanding is flawed since you seem to think it does.

No. You are right. I don't mean they parallel.

Quote
If Rockbox takes MP4 metadata and makes a database, and iTunes takes MP4 metadata and makes a database, what part of that involves Rockbox using part of the iTunes' database? If their database is present, or not, or even if you delete their database afterward, Rockbox's will continue to work as long as the files are left on the disk in their position.

That's where I went wrong and tried to explain. I misused "database" to refer to the entire iTunes/iPod system and it contents (the files). This is the only thing that needed clarification, as I didn't actually think iTunesDB was used by Rockbox.

Quote
Rockbox accepts *any* positioning of files. It's a simple as that. As long as iTunes copied the files anywhere to the disk on a FAT32 partition, Rockbox would be able to add them to its database.

And proof that we agree.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 08, 2007, 07:15:36 PM
Then why is the fact that iTunes puts files in a structure that Rockbox has always been capable of reading relevant in any way toward an argument that Rockbox should accept their playlists?

Rockbox has had support for the FAT filesystems since before iPods worked.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 08, 2007, 07:42:08 PM

Then why is the fact that iTunes puts files in a structure that Rockbox has always been capable of reading relevant in any way toward an argument that Rockbox should accept their playlists?


It seemed easy enough to read directories made by iTunes, and was wondering if reading playlists would have been any harder, though I realize that Rockbox does not try to interpret any part of iTunesDB which goes beyond just reading the directories.

It was merely an observation whether it was possible.

Are you aware that rockbox already has these WPS Tags
%rp  Song playcount  
%rr  Song rating (0-10). This tag can also be used in a conditional tag, %?rr<0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10>  
which implies some asspects of smart tags are already in place.

I know they are available, but havent used it yet. The manual has no extra info about the Runtime Database tags. The wiki has basically the same information. Is there any more extensive documentation of these two features?
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Exitao on July 08, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
So, to make things work, I have to give up iTunes (I'm willing to do this), and use a media manager, like Media Monkey (not bad), but not use MM's ipod feature, just create playlists within the directories and put it in the the iPod as a UMS (which your wiki doesn't bother to translate as USB Mass Storage) device.

This way, I can use M3U or PLS or whatever, system I wan't but I lose all iTunes functionality.

This has the problems that I lose iTunes few worthwhile features intended specifically for the iPod and that I have to export or rebuild my playlists.

But it seems that no matter what I choose I'm going to be losing out because until I can learn to make this crap on my own I'm at the mercy of developers' agendas or attention spans.  

So to Apple and the Rockbox crews respectively, thanks for something, thanks for nothing.  ;-)

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 08, 2007, 08:04:56 PM
As I said, why should someone who's never going to use it write it for you, if you can't be bothered to do learn to do it yourself and you actually *want* it.

Please, if you're unwilling to sacrifice your own spare time, why should someone else who has to use their own spare time sacrifice family time and other things to do it for you?

All you seem to say is "You should do it because people would like it" but if people would like it, why isn't that a good enough reason for you to do it?

In the case of retail software, there's a strong incentive to reach a wider installed base because you're selling something. In the case of Rockbox, you've got a range of developers who work on the project because there's some aspect of it they're interested in. They work on Rockbox specifically because it's not a job, it's a hobby. Something they do because either they want something more from their player and Rockbox gives them a starting point to create it, or because they're enjoying it, or because of any number of other motives. But very rarely is "Spending time making something I'll never use" a strong motivating force.

It just seems unreasonable that you seem to expect people to jump up and volunteer to do this for you.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Exitao on July 09, 2007, 02:08:25 AM
At this point, I don't really care.  I just think that doing something halfway isn't worth having done.  It's your time, whatever.

Both softwares are deficient.  Just because the people who develop it don't care that it's deficient doesn't make my criticism less valid.

If it's not worth the time to code, it's not worth the time to reply or defend the lack of interest, is it?

Me?  I'm a construction worker.  WTF do I know about coding? Nothing.  I just have an idea of what well-made means.  In other words, I'm not skilled enough to code, I can just point out flaws.  Let's just agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 09, 2007, 02:13:34 AM
I'll tell you what, you come build me a tool shed, and I'll write your plugin.

In all seriousness, Rockbox isn't "half complete." It's never had a goal of supporting iTunes features. It's a replacement firmware, that works with standard formats. I don't see "doesn't support a single proprietary program out of dozens of proprietary music management programs" as a specific deficiency.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on July 09, 2007, 05:02:53 AM
In all seriousness, Rockbox isn't "half complete."
Despite Rockbox having a different goal than the Apple firmware it also hasn't even been released for all supported players except the Archos models. You shouldn't forget about that too.

And a software isn't deficient because it uses different approaches you are used to. Some people might even like the different approach and consider it as superiour (like me, when comparing Rockbox with AppleOS). As this isn't a commercial software there is absolutely no requirement to support feature A or B other software does.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on July 09, 2007, 06:51:56 AM

At this point, I don't really care.  I just think that doing something halfway isn't worth having done.  It's your time, whatever.


But you're only viewing it as "half done" because it lacks a feature *you* want. We don't see it like that because it's not a feature that *we* want.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: TeamHCN on July 10, 2007, 01:47:33 PM

Seeing as Rockbox is a "replacement" firmware, that only partially offers the ability to run alongside another firmware, why should it add in an option that is only useful specifically if you're *not* using it as a replacement, adding code bloat and a decreased audio buffer for anyone who doesn't use a program not meant to be used with Rockbox in the first place?

If Rockbox isn't intended as a replacement for the default Apple firmware, then what is it intended as? Rockbox is a competitor of iPod Linux and Apple's firmware, regardless of what anyone says about who the target audience is. I could understand not offering native iTunes playlist support in Rockbox because it's technically impossible, but excluding it because of messy coding seems incredibly short-sighted, when you consider that the vast majority of iPod owners who would be using the Rockbox firmware are syncing to iTunes. I love Rockbox's custom EQ features (since I listen to a lot of lossless audio, using audiophile-quality earphones), but there are a lot of things that make it incredibly frustrating to use (i.e. lack of iTunes playlist support, freezing during lossless playback, etc.)

Don't get me wrong, I understand Rockbox is still far from being complete, and that bugs are to be expected. I'm certain anyone who's looked at the features list realizes the huge potential that Rockbox has. Furthermore, I understand that developing software, especially on a volunteer basis, involves a ton of (often, seemingly thankless) hard work.

That being said, it would be nice if some of the staff  would try to be a little more open to suggestions, and a little less defensive. Llorean, no offense, but it seems like a lot of your responses I've read are telling people why their questions or suggestions are wrong or stupid, or how they should go use another program if they don't like something about Rockbox. The thing is, people will do that – if you keep treating them that way. I don't think that's what you want. That's not what I want.
i.e. if you prefer how the original firmware works - then go use it - no-one's making you use Rockbox :)

^^^
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes people not want to support a developer. It's not very nice, and it doesn't do anything to answer the question or address the suggestion of the end-user (the person who ultimately makes the software's continued development/success possible).
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Chronon on July 10, 2007, 02:22:46 PM


Seeing as Rockbox is a "replacement" firmware, that only partially offers the ability to run alongside another firmware, why should it add in an option that is only useful specifically if you're *not* using it as a replacement, adding code bloat and a decreased audio buffer for anyone who doesn't use a program not meant to be used with Rockbox in the first place?

If Rockbox isn't intended as a replacement for the default Apple firmware, then what is it intended as? Rockbox is a competitor of iPod Linux and Apple's firmware, regardless of what anyone says about who the target audience is. I could understand not offering native iTunes playlist support in Rockbox because it's technically impossible, but excluding it because of messy coding seems incredibly short-sighted, when you consider that the vast majority of iPod owners who would be using the Rockbox firmware are syncing to iTunes. I love Rockbox's custom EQ features (since I listen to a lot of lossless audio, using audiophile-quality earphones), but there are a lot of things that make it incredibly frustrating to use (i.e. lack of iTunes playlist support, freezing during lossless playback, etc.)


Read what he wrote again.  He said that it *is* a replacement firmware.  With that in mind, why should Rockbox bend over backwards to attempt compliance with closed, proprietary software.  Apple has taken many steps to do things their own way rather than seek broad compatibility.  Maybe you should ask why iTunes doesn't just use m3u playlists.

Quote

Don't get me wrong, I understand Rockbox is still far from being complete, and that bugs are to be expected. I'm certain anyone who's looked at the features list realizes the huge potential that Rockbox has. Furthermore, I understand that developing software, especially on a volunteer basis, involves a ton of (often, seemingly thankless) hard work.

That being said, it would be nice if some of the staff  would try to be a little more open to suggestions, and a little less defensive. Llorean, no offense, but it seems like a lot of your responses I've read are telling people why their questions or suggestions are wrong or stupid, or how they should go use another program if they don't like something about Rockbox. The thing is, people will do that – if you keep treating them that way. I don't think that's what you want. That's not what I want.
i.e. if you prefer how the original firmware works - then go use it - no-one's making you use Rockbox :)

^^^
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes people not want to support a developer. It's not very nice, and it doesn't do anything to answer the question or address the suggestion of the end-user (the person who ultimately makes the software's continued development/success possible).


I don't see that Llorean was doing that.  He gave basically the stock response for people asking for features that lie outside of what would be considered core functionality.  What I see is that most of the developers probably would not use such a feature and so the point is being made that if someone wants this feature then they will need to code it themselves.  I see no reason to take offense.  You can either sit back and hope that someone else decides that it's worth their time to code this OR you can take things into your own hands and learn how to do it yourself.

I think Llorean summed it up pretty well with this:
Quote
In all seriousness, Rockbox isn't "half complete." It's never had a goal of supporting iTunes features. It's a replacement firmware, that works with standard formats. I don't see "doesn't support a single proprietary program out of dozens of proprietary music management programs" as a specific deficiency.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on July 11, 2007, 01:48:56 AM

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes people not want to support a developer. It's not very nice, and it doesn't do anything to answer the question or address the suggestion of the end-user (the person who ultimately makes the software's continued development/success possible).


You think we need end-users to continue developing Rockbox? How funny...
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 11, 2007, 02:29:47 AM
End users are of course always nice, but the people who make development possible are "anyone who contributes." An example of contributing would perhaps include "deciding you want a feature, and then implementing that feature".
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: mamboman on July 11, 2007, 05:29:27 AM
Well said bro. I would love that feature, but I am not going to complain because it's not there. If I cannot build it, i will just wait for it to be there. in the meantime I dual boot the 2 firmwares
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: AlexP on July 11, 2007, 06:50:42 AM

That being said, it would be nice if some of the staff


There are no staff, only volunteers.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on July 11, 2007, 08:15:05 AM
If Rockbox isn't intended as a replacement for the default Apple firmware, then what is it intended as? Rockbox is a competitor of iPod Linux and Apple's firmware, regardless of what anyone says about who the target audience is.
No, it's not. Rockbox is "just" a project of people who like doing so. The intention of Rockbox is completely different to IPL, so it's definitely not a competitor. And speaking of AppleOS: it's not a competitor in terms we want people to use Rockbox. Everyone who likes it is free to do (as it is open source), but no-one is required to do so. The main advantage of Rockbox is doing things in a standardized way, which includes using m3u as playlist format instead of some strange, unknown ItunesDB.
Quote
That being said, it would be nice if some of the staff  would try to be a little more open to suggestions, and a little less defensive.
Only volunteers are working on Rockbox, and they do that in their spare time. Having that said those people have the right (and will use that right) to work on the stuff they consider important and leave unimportant features out. Also, they are free to use the appropach they consider the "right" one and ignore all others. Just compare the different views between Windows and Linux users ... Like it or not, but people not involved in developing Rockbox might only make suggestions. And the majority of the devs has the same opinions about some general approaches.
Quote
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes people not want to support a developer. It's not very nice, and it doesn't do anything to answer the question or address the suggestion of the end-user (the person who ultimately makes the software's continued development/success possible).
Do you consider it nice to use some free software and only ask for rarely used feature, i.e. asking people to do additional work in their free time which result those developers are neither interested in nor have any benefit from it? Quite some users do so. (I don't want to count you to this group, but it is a fact that some users behave exactly that way. Rockbox is no product, and as you haven't paid anything for it you neither have any warranties nor the right for support or someone implementing what you want)
Anyone who wants a feature added is free to step up and implement it, and there are a lot of helpful developers that will actually help. They just won't do the actual work.

And speaking for myself: I don't think Rockbox needs users at all. It's fun enough working on it. I don't need more. There is this tiny difference between "need" and "nice to have" ;)

Just my 2 ct.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 11, 2007, 06:33:02 PM

Well said bro. I would love that feature, but I am not going to complain because it's not there. If I cannot build it, i will just wait for it to be there. in the meantime I dual boot the 2 firmwares


That's where I sit too.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: vcardenas on July 12, 2007, 09:20:20 AM
Hi...

I have a little application that i made in .net using the library SharePodLib (http://www.sturm.net.nz/website.php?Section=iPod+Programs&Page=SharePodLib) that i've been using for exactly the same purpose you want: generating playlist for rockbox from the SmartPlaylists in iTunesDB... so i want to share it.

It reads all the Smart Playlists stored in the Ipod generated with iTunes, and creates a playlist for each one with the same name in *.m3u8 format, so it can be read from rockbox. The playlists created are stored in the "Playlists" folder in the iPod.

You must have iTunes closed and it needs .NET framework 2.0 to run (can be downloaded from here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5)).

The app is here (http://www.box.net/shared/56jb3fql2e).

Update: Deceber 21, 2007
A new version with support for both Smart and Normal Playlist is available.
Go to iPod to RockBox Playlist Converter (http://vcardenasblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/ipod-to-rockbox-playlist-converter.html)

Hope it can help you.

Title: iPod native playlists support could be added to Sansa playlist converter
Post by: gratt on July 12, 2007, 01:23:11 PM
Before sound was supported on the Sansa I created a playlist converter
Rockbox Plugin (FS #6884) to convert playlists between RB and the OF.
If some one uploads an IPod playlist I will look at adding support for convertion
to .m3u8 playlists for RB.
I do not have an IPod but desperately needed such a feature for my Sansa.
I have my doubts this will ever get included in SVN though.
I will also need to know the location of the playlist files in the IPod file structure,
and where you would like the converted .m3u8 file.

Only trying to be helpful.
GRaTT
Title: Re: iPod native playlists support could be added to Sansa playlist converter
Post by: saratoga on July 12, 2007, 01:36:12 PM


I do not have an IPod but desperately needed such a feature for my Sansa.
I have my doubts this will ever get included in SVN though.
I will also need to know the location of the playlist files in the IPod file structure,
and where you would like the converted .m3u8 file.



I don't see any reason we couldn't commit that once you're done working on it.  It would probably be helpful to many users.
Title: Re: iPod native playlists support could be added to Sansa playlist converter
Post by: GodEater on July 12, 2007, 02:27:49 PM

I don't see any reason we couldn't commit that once you're done working on it.  It would probably be helpful to many users.


Indeed not - we never said we wouldn't put the feature in if someone wrote it. I think we said the exact opposite - we said go write it someone!
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on July 12, 2007, 03:17:02 PM
Indeed not - we never said we wouldn't put the feature in if someone wrote it. I think we said the exact opposite - we said go write it someone!
And just to emphasize this: Rockbox already has a plugin called "iriverify" which converts Rockbox playlists to a format the Iriver firmware (h100 and h300 series, don't know about h10) can read (which is also m3u, but with different path delimiters).

Also, a plugin doesn't affect the core, so it's much more likely to get such a feature added as plugin.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: gratt on July 12, 2007, 04:10:07 PM
There did not seem to be any interest in the Sana playlist converter for SVN,
that is the only reason I did not think it would be added. If additional IPod support
will get my app into SVN I will do my best to add the support.

GRaTT
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on July 12, 2007, 04:42:24 PM
If additional IPod support will get my app into SVN I will do my best to add the support.

Well, I (and I guess most devs) would prefer separate plugins. The reason your patch didn't got much attention is most likely that most (all?) devs don't use the original firmware any more ... ;)
A good way to get your patch accepted is to look around on IRC and discuss it -- that way you'll also get fast feedback if there are any changes to do before it gets accepted.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: gratt on July 13, 2007, 11:38:14 AM
Quote
Well, I (and I guess most devs) would prefer separate plugins.


Do I understand then that you would prefer a seperate Ipod playlist converter and not just added support for Ipods in my Sansa playlist converter?
I would have thought a single app with multiple playlist formats support would be better, but whatever will be accepted, or is wanted.

If there is any interest in me doing this I will need a Ipod playlist before I can get started.

GRaTT
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: saratoga on July 13, 2007, 01:32:07 PM

Quote
Well, I (and I guess most devs) would prefer separate plugins.


Do I understand then that you would prefer a seperate Ipod playlist converter and not just added support for Ipods in my Sansa playlist converter?


We'd probably just want to enable your plugin for the Sansa, and enable a second plugin on the Ipod.  If, however, the two plugins would only be trivially different, then maybe its not worth separating them.

I think that as long as you can justify the way you do things, and its not plainly counterproductive, no one is going to make a big deal about it.

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: gratt on July 13, 2007, 04:28:52 PM
Quote

We'd probably just want to enable your plugin for the Sansa, and enable a second plugin on the Ipod.  If, however, the two plugins would only be trivially different, then maybe its not worth separating them.

I think that as long as you can justify the way you do things, and its not plainly counterproductive, no one is going to make a big deal about it.


I guess there is no point in having sansa playlist support for Ipod or vise versa.
Two individual plugins would be easier and faster to do.
There has not been any feedback from the people who wanted this feature only from the Devs. Does anybody want me to do an IPod playlist to RB playlist converter?

GRaTT
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: vcardenas on July 13, 2007, 06:58:29 PM
Quote

There has not been any feedback from the people who wanted this feature only from the Devs. Does anybody want me to do an IPod playlist to RB playlist converter?

GRaTT


you are aware that the ipod playlists aren't plain text files?

here  (http://ipodlinux.org/Itunesdb)is a description of the structure of iTunesDB.

If this is not a problem for your implementation, let me know and i will send you a example file.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: gratt on July 13, 2007, 09:43:37 PM
Quote

you are aware that the ipod playlists aren't plain text files?

I was not! I thought they were XML files. This makes it much more interesting.
The Sansa uses UTF-16 encoding so it was not so hard of a conversion.

Quote

If this is not a problem for your implementation, let me know and i will send you a example file.

I may not be able to do this but I would not mind giving it a shot.
There is lots of info on the structure as I see from your post, and even some perl programs to work with the IPod data base (gnupod).
I wrote my sansa playlist converter in perl first, so much easier than C.
Now there is an idea, a perl interpreter for Rockbox.

Please do not expect anything but I will try.
GRaTT
 
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on July 14, 2007, 12:37:35 AM
You should probably simply refer to them as "M3U" or "M3U8" rather than "RB playlist." Some people on here miss the fact that they're a standard format, and that makes it more unclear. ;)
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 14, 2007, 06:44:30 AM

You should probably simply refer to them as "M3U" or "M3U8" rather than "RB playlist." Some people on here miss the fact that they're a standard format, and that makes it more unclear. ;)

Agreed. It'd be accommodating iTunes playlists.

And sorry for not responding recently. After receiving criticism I didn't think it was worth any more trouble (cuz I realize you guys don't need less knowledgable ppl bothering you), but I'm pleasantly surprised that vcardenas has his own app for the job and gratt has kindly taken a look at things for a plugin. Much thanks to you guys. I haven't tried the app, but I will tomorrow. I look forward to gratt's progress (don't worry I won't expect anything).
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on July 20, 2007, 10:13:42 PM
well the converter that was mentioned didn't work out. It gave me an error and I let it sit, hoping it would complete but nothing happened. I guess my last option is to go to the iTunesExport I mention in the OP. My only concern is that I still want to use iTunes, but I lose the original firmware if I don't sync with iTunes. I'll be opening up a separate thread because my accommodations are to off-topic here.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: gratt on July 27, 2007, 10:19:58 PM
While waiting for someone to post their itunesdb file I looked at the plugin from page one
of this topic. With some heavy commenting and a few changes I got it compiling.
It was able to read the header info OK but I was only able to extract the number of playlists and the number of songs in each playlist, no text data only numbers.
Since nobody posted a db file I had to search one out, not many out their,
even on the google, so even the info I did get is suspect as I had no way to verify it.

I am sure it is very possible to extract this data, but I have lost interest as I do not have an Ipod and no one here even bothered to post a file for me to work with.

GRaTT
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: runawaywind on August 01, 2007, 02:09:56 PM

While waiting for someone to post their itunesdb file I looked at the plugin from page one
of this topic. With some heavy commenting and a few changes I got it compiling.
It was able to read the header info OK but I was only able to extract the number of playlists and the number of songs in each playlist, no text data only numbers.
Since nobody posted a db file I had to search one out, not many out their,
even on the google, so even the info I did get is suspect as I had no way to verify it.

I am sure it is very possible to extract this data, but I have lost interest as I do not have an Ipod and no one here even bothered to post a file for me to work with.

GRaTT


Apologies. I didn't realize you still needed an iTunesdb file. I've uploaded a large (35mb) file if your still willing to help out.
http://liquidparallax.com/files/iTunesDB
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: gratt on August 01, 2007, 04:29:06 PM
What I originally needed was a small file to work with
example; 2 or 3 playlists with 10 entries. In addition
then the text info, such as a m3u playlist of the same files.
As I said I have lost interest and hit a road block.
I was able to compile the plugin from page one and extract
the header info. Possibly the offsets have changed with
newer itunes db files??
Sorry.
GRaTT
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: etien on August 13, 2007, 09:41:54 AM
Hi everyone, first post here

First of all congratulations to all involved in developing Rockbox. I tried it last December for the first time in my iPod Photo (4G) but it kept freezing so reverted back to the official firmware. I've installed it yesterday again, and I'm pleased to report it's been working fine since.

I am now in the process of migrating all my iTunes info to Rockbox, and for that purpose was looking for a tool to get all my playlists transfered automatically. I found that thread and read it throughout.

I have to say I am a little bit disappointed in what I've read here from the dev team. Such hostile and defensive reactions to what was a very polite, documented remark seems completely out of order.

All projects need feedback from the end-users, now it's up to you to decide who are your end-users. If it is only aimed at a small group of coders, i suggest you design your website and advertisement strategy accordingly, as for the moment Rockbox kind of presents itself as opened to everyone, offers easily available downloads and even (god forbids) a manual to help the uninitiated.

As for the suggestion itself, I agree that making it a permanent plugin to sync playlists between iTunes and Rockbox would stray too far from the purpose of the project, but I do think that a tool to help the migration from iTunes to Rockbox would be a very good "nice-to-have".
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on August 13, 2007, 10:09:22 AM
I didn't think we ever said "don't develop such a thing" - I just thought that the *current* developers had no interest in developing such a feature. That doesn't stop anyone else from stepping forward to do it.

Do bear in mind that OSS projects basically exist to "scratch a developer's itch". Currently none of our developers find that the lack of such a tool makes them itch, so they have no desire to scratch it. A tool to do the job you want is therefore not going to appear until someone who does find it itchy steps forward to write it.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: AlexP on August 13, 2007, 11:12:17 AM
Anyone is welcome to write anything they want, but currently none of our developers want this feature.  If someone else wants it, they are of course free to write it.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: etien on August 13, 2007, 03:01:33 PM
And I accept and totally understand that, and agree that runawaywind's suggestion wasn't really in scope with your project goals. I was just reacting to the tone of the replies made to him right after his first post, which i felt were a bit hostile.

As for my suggestion, a tool to import iTunes playlists would complete nicely Rockbox to make it a true replacement firmware. Just keep in mind that unlike the devs who have probably been using RB for some time, most users will come with a few years of using a different player behind them, hence in my instance the iTunes playlists which would take a lifetime to reproduce in RB. I am not asking the RB team to get to work straightaway, I am just flagging out that the need is out there, in case someone with the same need and the necessary knowledge reads this.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on August 13, 2007, 03:06:38 PM
The trouble is we get a lot of people who suggest things that they feel are necessary, and very few volunteers to actually do the work.

As I said before, until someone who does need this and is ready to do the work, then it won't happen.

Rockbox isn't designed for end users - it's written by people who enjoy doing so, and who enjoy the end result. Anyone who isn't contributing is basically enjoying the fruits of that labour. Features are added by people interested in doing so in general - and very rarely (I actually can't think of any cases) because end users demand it.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: etien on August 13, 2007, 06:30:38 PM
I didn't say what I suggested is necessary or a demand, I actually used the words "nice-to-have". A bonus. A complement. And would gladly volunteer to do it myself if I had the knowledge! I think RB is a tremendous project, one which outshines most if not all alternative OSes I have experienced (in a way that I've seen accomplished by only one other project, XBMC).

I guess what I was pointing out is that if a request gets posted, it is not necessarily to get you to do it simply because someone asks for it, but to flag out something that you might not have thought of, or that you had on your todo list, but with maybe lower priority. Knowing that other users would like this or that bit may help you decide what to do first, or make you itch in a place you didn't know could itch, to re-use your metaphor.

RB is designed for end-users, what you are actually saying is that the end-users are the devs themselves. What I was saying is that because we outsiders cannot have another input (as you don't seem to accept donations, there is precious little I could do except maybe come around and play guitar while you code, since this is my trade), we can only voice what we think could improve the product, in the hope that it will coincide with what you think could improve it.

If not then why not have a private forum opened only to devs? That would nicely sort out your problem of being inundated with requests i¬/

In any case, keep up the good work. It doesn't matter if you are not doing it for us, we are all thankful anyway. I am now (almost) freed from the iShackles...
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on August 13, 2007, 06:34:30 PM
1) Donations are accepted, visit the front page of rockbox.org
2) We share the project both in the hopes that more people will use it, and that some of those will gain an interest in joining in development. The only "end-users" of any specific feature are the people who developed that feature to scratch an itch, as you put it. Feature Requests go in the Feature Request tracker, not on the forums, and it's highly unlikely the itch will be scratched by someone not itchy.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Chronon on August 13, 2007, 07:08:19 PM
There are other, more peripheral, ways to contribute as well.  Keeping the wiki and manuals up to date is certainly welcomed.  And contributing advice to new users on these forums also lightens the load.  
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: bluebrother on August 14, 2007, 03:46:39 AM

RB is designed for end-users, what you are actually saying is that the end-users are the devs themselves.

Developers are quite different from end users. For example, while devs probably also would use Rockbox Utility there is absolutely no need for them. End users frequently have trouble installing Rockbox without a graphical tool ...

Quote
If not then why not have a private forum opened only to devs? That would nicely sort out your problem of being inundated with requests i¬/

That would defeat the way open source works: it's open, and this also implies discussion about features and the development process.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: AlexP on August 14, 2007, 05:58:27 AM


If not then why not have a private forum opened only to devs? That would nicely sort out your problem of being inundated with requests i¬/

That would defeat the way open source works: it's open, and this also implies discussion about features and the development process.


Also, very few of the developers even read the forums.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: polygonal on August 14, 2007, 04:32:55 PM
For those of you still trying to find a solution, I suggest trying foobar2000 with a plugin calls foo_dop. It should read the itunes database fine and converts all playlists into foobar playlists (and I think recently it starts to support smart playlist converting to foobar2000's autoplaylist as well). And from that you can easily save those playlists to m3u or m3u8, which will be understood by rockbox.

Additionally, foo_dop lets you have your own folder structure (instead of the F00, etc. folders) and build a itunes database with that as well. That means that you can save your music in logical format, i.e. something like \music\artist\album\trackname and can still use the original firmware when you want to. It is worth a try - and you can't go much wrong since foobar2000 is one of the best audio players around.

EDIT: spelling and grammar : )
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: etien on August 15, 2007, 04:05:00 AM
Quote from: Llorean
1) Donations are accepted, visit the front page of rockbox.org


My bad, I had missed it ! Donation made, I am glad to be able to contribute at least something.

Quote from: Chronon
There are other, more peripheral, ways to contribute as well. Keeping the wiki and manuals up to date is certainly welcomed.  And contributing advice to new users on these forums also lightens the load.


I will duly have a look at the wiki and see what I can do at that early stage. I probably need a few more weeks of using RB to start giving advice to others though.

Quote from: polygonal
For those of you still trying to find a solution, I suggest trying foobar2000 with a plugin calls foo_dop.


Unfortunately I'm one of those darn macusers so sadly no Foobar for me... Might try it in Parallels Desktop though, if anything just to try the playlist export. Thanks for the pointer.

[EDIT] having trouble finding foo_dop, the page of the dev doesn't open, hopefully this has not been abandonned. If someone had an alternative link (ie not starting with www.yuo.be), would appreciate, thanks.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: polygonal on August 15, 2007, 09:16:09 AM

[EDIT] having trouble finding foo_dop, the page of the dev doesn't open, hopefully this has not been abandonned. If someone had an alternative link (ie not starting with www.yuo.be), would appreciate, thanks.


foo_dop is not abandoned. Don't think "www" should be in the link - try http://yuo.be/ipod.php
The support thread at hydrogenaudio forum is here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=d4a6ec70bca940d7722e9ca395fc1b1e&showtopic=45160
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: etien on August 15, 2007, 09:21:23 AM
I was indeed trying to access yuo.be (with no www), but it was probably maintenance that kept it offline. It's back on now, Cheers!
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: ell1ps1s on August 15, 2007, 10:50:58 PM
Unfortunately I'm one of those darn macusers so sadly no Foobar for me...

If you're on a Mac, pretty much everything within iTunes is accessible to AppleScript. It shouldn't be too difficult to write a script to get the pathnames of the files on an iPod and write a text file of those.

This site (http://dougscripts.com/itunes/) has a number of useful AppleScripts for iTunes. I don't see one that converts iTunes playlists to m3u, but the code of all the scripts there is available, so you can use them as tutorials towards one that does what you want.

I've been playing with something similar, but right now it's too specific to my own environment to be of much use to anyone else. If there's interest out there I could look at making it more general, and maybe posting it on the wiki.

--

EDIT: After further investigation, 'not too difficult' is probably an overstatement. If you're simply using an iPod as a hard drive, then getting pathnames of the files on it is simple. However, if you're using iTunes to manage the music on the iPod, and the music files are therefore stored in the secret Apple directory structure, that appears to be trickier. I'm still looking into it, but I'm not promising results at this stage.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: ashvash on September 03, 2007, 09:47:07 PM

For those of you still trying to find a solution, I suggest trying foobar2000 with a plugin calls foo_dop. It should read the itunes database fine and converts all playlists into foobar playlists (and I think recently it starts to support smart playlist converting to foobar2000's autoplaylist as well). And from that you can easily save those playlists to m3u or m3u8, which will be understood by rockbox.

Additionally, foo_dop lets you have your own folder structure (instead of the F00, etc. folders) and build a itunes database with that as well. That means that you can save your music in logical format, i.e. something like \music\artist\album\trackname and can still use the original firmware when you want to. It is worth a try - and you can't go much wrong since foobar2000 is one of the best audio players around.

EDIT: spelling and grammar : )


hi i have a 5.5g 80gb..not getting the foobar plugin to work. i want to be able to drop folders into the ipod's root directory with my mp3 in them.  but i want the native OS to have access to that stuff as well, because rockbox will not work with my ihome system or my phillips ipod dock.

thanks
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on September 04, 2007, 02:29:26 AM
Yeah, I never got foo_dop to work like that either.

Apparently later versions of the Ipod firmware refuse to load music from folders outside the Ipod_Control\Music directory, even if the itunes database on the ipod says the files are elsewhere.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: BillyPrefect on September 05, 2007, 08:00:43 PM
Hi... frequent reader, first time writer... I too was reading this whole 5 page mess, looking for something that would let me sync playlists somehow, anyhow.

I am not sure what I did right, but that foobar with the foo_dop component worked like a charm, playlists work perfectly, update whenever I tell them to, telling it to download directly to the ipod makes life easy, and the ipod working like a charm with RockBox reads them and plays them with no muss or fuss.

Ipod 5G video - 30 gig.  Running the pen and scissors (?) theme, which I think is freaking awesome!!
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: mrmimis06 on September 05, 2007, 09:05:39 PM
The more I read the more I realize this software isn't for me. The only reason I decided to install was because the guy from CNET made a video about it a few days ago. It seemed pretty interesting. But not being able to create playlists on your pc and only on the player is absolutely ridiculous. The guys who responded on the first pages were simply asking a question nicely and all they got was some rude and snobby responses from some rockbox geeks.

Its great that there is people out there willing to sacrifice time to create software for people out there to use.  But to come in to a forum, ask a simple question, and get bombarded with snobby remarks, are not cool.  

Its obvious, this software isnt for the masses.  

Include the ability to create playlists on my pc's or better yet, export playlists from itunes on to rocbox and the ability to see album artwork on rockbox EASILY PEOPLE, AGAIN, EASILY with no need of me becoming a pc freak and spend 20 hours a day on my computer so I can create it myself, and you will win me back. Would even consider donating some cash.

For now, uninstalling rockbox as we speak. It really isnt all that.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on September 05, 2007, 09:16:55 PM
M3U playlists can be made with nearly any program on a PC, including notepad or the "dir" command in Dos. As well, how can we add the ability for iTunes to export playlists in M3U? We don't have access to the iTunes source code. Surely you meant "the ability to import playlists from iTunes"?

But honestly, why should we try to win you back? You've said "Do this for me, and I MIGHT give you money." The usual process is "You give money, someone gives you software" but obviously we're offering it for free. What we want is help. Instead of saying "Rockbox should do this" pitch in and help make it do the things you want it to do. That's what we've all done, every single person who's worked on Rockbox decided he wanted it to do something, and so worked on it.

But as you can't be bothered to actually learn about the software before putting it down (as about 30 seconds of research will show you that M3U playlists are a standard format), I'm not expecting a very interesting or at least well thought out response, as it's clear from your first post the quality we can expect from you.

Yes, this is a snobby remark, but if you're not willing to show a little respect in actually verifying your facts before posting, I'm not sure you warrant any respect from me, especially since you've already stated you've little to no interest in using our software.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: mrmimis06 on September 05, 2007, 09:26:23 PM
LLoren. Lloren.  You must not be able to read or something. As I mentioned previously. Those are just a few features that would be great to add to rockbox, and if they do exist, than all you can do is direct me to it, but all you keep saying is how WE should contribute and stop requesting add on's with out assisting. All you do is keep hammering people. Absolutely ridiculous. This software is obviously intend for those who are willing to spend countless hours contributing by creating plug-ins etc..and not for those who can contribute by word of mouth or trial and error.  

That paypal button you have on your home page for donating. No way.After those types of responses. Hope you have a great day or evening. LLoren. I appreciate your friendliness.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on September 05, 2007, 09:31:09 PM
You can't be bothered to read well enough to spell my name, can't be bothered to learn about the features the software has before complaining about their lack, and I'm supposed to want your word of mouth support? What are you going to do, spread around misinformation about what our software can't do so we have even less users? Am I supposed to want that?

Trial and error? If a manual's too much for you, if a single word, my name, is too much for you, how can I expect you to fill out a useful bug report, or better yet follow instructions for providing useful information?

I'll more than happily donate whatever necessary to match the surely staggeringly huge donation I've lost the other members of the project by offending you. I'm truly sorry you can't be bothered to understand how open source software works before complaining about it. You are entitled to NOTHING, not even politeness, because you have paid nothing. Anything you are given is by the goodwill of others. If you give respect you will be shown respect, and your very first post in this thread showed none whatsoever, so surely you can't expect respect from people you give none to.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: mrmimis06 on September 05, 2007, 09:52:38 PM
Respect.  :) lol. I entered a comment and you basically insulted me. Typical of a woman. Your unbelievable.  You and Rockbox can go profanity removed, lol. Im sorry im not willing to spend hours contributing to your open source software.  Shoot, but I know a profanity removed load of people with ipods and other mp3 players that might've been interested in using it. You see, many of us can contribute in different forms Lloreen or whatever your name is. Some can contribute by writing code, other by word of mouth, other by donating money, others by using the software and report bugs, etc..  Not everyone wants to be a computer nerd and again, spend 20 hours a day creating plug ins.

So let me ask you this. Rockbox IS NOT FOR THE MASSES, COMPUTER GEEKS ARE ONLY WELCOMED. MUST CREATE PLUGINS AND CONTRIBUTE IN ORDER TO ASK QUESTIONS IN THE FORUM!! IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO ABIDE BY THIS RULE, YOU WILL BE DISMEMBERED BY OUR ROCKBOX CREW ...  

Can you agree to this Lloreen. Just say this, please, for me, just once. I just need to hear from you. Please.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Llorean on September 05, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
Again, try learning to read. There's an A in there, I'll let you spot it, it's not hard.

What aren't welcome are people who can't be bothered to follow the rules. We have lots of people who don't contribute anything, and just use the software. But if you say "You guys should do this" you'll be answered with "You're more than welcome to do it yourself" because you are NOT paying for this software, and EVERYBODY WHO WORKS ON IT IS A VOLUNTEER.

If I volunteered to come to your house and paint your door, and you said "Hey, you should paint my cabinets too" would you be offended if I said "No, but you can borrow my paint?"

Because believe it or not, that's the exact same situation, it's just rather evident you're too lost in your own world to see it, and too hung up on the fact that you think a woman's arguing with you. Guess what: I'm a guy. That name's not female, it's completely fictional.

And the next time you break our forum rules, you're banned, so be careful of your word choice, swearing and sexist comments both aren't welcome here, and masking a word doesn't change what it is.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: elborak on September 05, 2007, 10:01:32 PM
Sigh... this is why preschools shouldn't have internet access.

Look mrmoose, it's simple. Those who write the code decide what gets implemented. So there are three choices: join the workers, be happy with what the workers give you, or go away.

Here's voting for #3.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: mrmimis06 on September 05, 2007, 10:08:59 PM
Thats fine Ms. Lloreen. If you want to ban me you can go right ahead. I made suggestions when I first commented in this thread.  You guys need to learn some public relations skills. I never came at your or anybody in an aggressive or disrespectful way.  I was actually pretty simple and polite. And "baam" , you respond in such a manner that would make John McEnroe proud.  Im like, geeez, are you having a bad day. A simple "Please dont ask those types of questions unless willing to contribute  :)" would have been fine. But no. I get insulted and bombarded and than elborak , who not long ago also got hammered , starts to defend you. What is this world coming too.

Elborak, I hope your donating to rockbox. I actually was siding with you when you first commented on the thread.  But your right, this is preschool

Rockbox is obviously not for me and several million people.  I will no longer comment. I am sorry Ms. Looreen for offending you in anyway. I will be the bigger person and offer my apologies. I should stay away from rockbox and ban myself.

Goodbye rockbox, it was nice knowing you.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: elborak on September 05, 2007, 10:10:41 PM
Edit: petty snipe removed.  I should act more respectful even when dealing with folks who show no respect in return.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: saratoga on September 05, 2007, 10:59:23 PM

Thats fine Ms. Lloreen.


Ugh, Llorean's clearly a dude.

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: AlexP on September 06, 2007, 08:41:05 AM
He is clearly just trolling now, this thread has got silly, although it was quite amusing to see Llorean finally lose his temper!

For the record, you can very easily create playlists on the PC, using any program you like that can do m3u, such as WinAmp, foobar....

What we can't do at the moment is read the iTunes playlists as they are stored in a non-standard format.  Whilst someone could write this, none of the current devs uses iTunes, and as Rockbox is just for fun, they don't want to spend time on it.  Hence if someone really wants iTunes playlist support they shall have to write it themselves.

Now, deep breath everyone :)
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: ooosadface on September 27, 2007, 10:12:20 AM
Ok, I waited for things to cool down a bit before I registered and started posting... First off, thanks for RockBox, I will be donating soon.

As far as iTunes playlists are concerned, I think vcardenas might have been pushed to the side during all the ruckus. The tiny piece of software he offered in his post here (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11366.msg87036#msg87036) worked wonders on my smart playlists in iTunes!

The playlists stores songs by the song filename and since iTunes converts all filenames into a 4 character code it makes it a bit difficult to know what the song is in the list. But the playlist is still 100% functional and the title display during playback is spot on (including the 'Next' title).

vcardenas - if you could tweak it to get the title name as the displayed name in the created .m3u8 list that would rock (no pun intended).

What I do now is, maintain what music I want on my iPod via iTunes (since I have too much to fit on my 30gb disk) and manage my playlist via iTunes and re-run this little app when I make a change.

Thanks vcardenas!

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: choodo on October 09, 2007, 05:37:54 PM

Hi...

I have a little application that i made in .net using the library SharePodLib (http://www.sturm.net.nz/website.php?Section=iPod+Programs&Page=SharePodLib) that i've been using for exactly the same purpose you want: generating playlist for rockbox from the SmartPlaylists in iTunesDB... so i want to share it.

It reads all the Smart Playlists stored in the Ipod generated with iTunes, and creates a playlist for each one with the same name in *.m3u8 format, so it can be read from rockbox. The playlists created are stored in the "Playlists" folder in the iPod.

You must have iTunes closed and it needs .NET framework 2.0 to run (can be downloaded from here (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5)).

The app is here (http://www.box.net/shared/56jb3fql2e).

Hope it can help you.





thanx a lot ! very useful!
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: PaperArtillery on December 16, 2007, 10:41:34 PM
I have just joined the forums here as a huge fan of the Rockbox software; the Foobar plugin worked gloriously well on my 4G iPod, and perhaps for the sake of all involved in the altercation earlier we can make this solution to a common problem a little more known?  It would save the moderation a lot of heartache, or headache, it would seem.

Keep up the grand work!  You'll never hear a complaint out of me so long as Rockbox continues to grow; I wish I could code, or come within some semblance thereof, but I don't think I'm cut out for much more than HTML, XML and CSS.

 ;D
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: crzyboyster on December 16, 2007, 11:04:38 PM
Llorean: How do you manage to handle these forums and the emotional troubles it entails? I have seen so many arguments with you and people pestering you (me included) about rockbox features and the like.

How do you do it? You're like superman to me.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: GodEater on December 17, 2007, 02:41:17 AM

Keep up the grand work!  You'll never hear a complaint out of me so long as Rockbox continues to grow; I wish I could code, or come within some semblance thereof, but I don't think I'm cut out for much more than HTML, XML and CSS.


Why not have a good at the "redesign the front page" request that was submitted in the Annoucements forum a few months back. Despite lots of people who've made similar claims to yourself about not being able to do much except web pages - we've had not a single submission there yet.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: vcardenas on December 21, 2007, 11:57:34 AM

Ok, I waited for things to cool down a bit before I registered and started posting... First off, thanks for RockBox, I will be donating soon.

As far as iTunes playlists are concerned, I think vcardenas might have been pushed to the side during all the ruckus. The tiny piece of software he offered in his post here (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11366.msg87036#msg87036) worked wonders on my smart playlists in iTunes!

The playlists stores songs by the song filename and since iTunes converts all filenames into a 4 character code it makes it a bit difficult to know what the song is in the list. But the playlist is still 100% functional and the title display during playback is spot on (including the 'Next' title).

vcardenas - if you could tweak it to get the title name as the displayed name in the created .m3u8 list that would rock (no pun intended).

What I do now is, maintain what music I want on my iPod via iTunes (since I have too much to fit on my 30gb disk) and manage my playlist via iTunes and re-run this little app when I make a change.

Thanks vcardenas!






To ooosadface and choodo, i'm glad that you two found useful my app. This motivates me to improve it a little, and i share it to everyone in  

http://vcardenasblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/ipod-to-rockbox-playlist-converter.html (http://vcardenasblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/ipod-to-rockbox-playlist-converter.html)

ooosadface:  you are right about the filenames in 4 characters... to address this i made that the playlist generated to be in M3U Extended Format, so it can be correctly shown if the patch made for Xinlu Huang is accepted (or at least applied in a unsopported build).

The patch is FS#7652 (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7652)

Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: kiwibird on January 10, 2009, 04:47:09 AM
Hi all, just thought I'd mention my own story in case someone on a Mac (who doesn't like being dependent on wine) wants to convert their iTunes playlists to the m3u/m3u8 (rockbox) format. Here's what I did:

1. Downloaded Songbird (http://www.getsongbird.com/download).
2. Let it import all my iTunes stuff.
3. Added the extension Playlist Export Tool (http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/51)
4. Exported my playlists to ~/Music
5.
Code: [Select]
rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete ~/Music/* /Volumes/IPODNAME/Music/6.
Code: [Select]
touch /Volumes/IPODNAME/iPod_Control/Music/database.ignore

At the moment, since I'm still "just testing" rockbox, I have two copies of my music on the iPod, one in the iTunes-folder (iPod_Control/Music) with their ugly naming scheme, and one in Music. Reason being, I don't like having lots of four-letter words in my playlists, but I also want to be able to dual-boot. The database.ignore file makes sure we don't get duplicates from iPod_Control.

Regarding the playlist export: when I looked at the files, they had the full local path (/Users/username/Music) but somehow Rockbox played them alright. Crazy stuff. Not sure if this is something that works completely, but there have been several requests off the extension developer to add support for relative paths too, hopefully someone will code that.

Anyhow, point being: this setup works for me, I hope it helps possible other people searching the forums and wondering what to do with their millions of iTunes playlists.

Thanks to all the developers for making Rockbox, I think I might be sticking with it :-)

On a side note: Would it be an idea to perhaps have a forum for questions that are explicitly not meant for developers? A forum where users are free to whine about this or that, you know, get it out of their system, until someone walks in and tells them "hey, just look at http://... , someone fixed it for us!" Eh?
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Febs on January 10, 2009, 09:34:59 AM
On a side note: Would it be an idea to perhaps have a forum for questions that are explicitly not meant for developers? A forum where users are free to whine about this or that, you know, get it out of their system, until someone walks in and tells them "hey, just look at http://... , someone fixed it for us!" Eh?

These forums are specifically geared towards Rockbox users already.  Relatively few of the developers monitor the forums.  Most development-related discussion takes place on IRC or the developer mailing list.

We're happy to respond to questions and to try to solve problems here.  We also have a feature request forum for fielding suggestions for new features.  I'm not inclined to create a forum that is specifically intended to let people "whine."  If they have a question, they can ask it, and we're here to help answer.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Chronon on January 11, 2009, 05:34:24 AM
Hi all, just thought I'd mention my own story in case someone on a Mac (who doesn't like being dependent on wine) wants to convert their iTunes playlists to the m3u/m3u8 (rockbox) format. Here's what I did:

1. Downloaded Songbird (http://www.getsongbird.com/download).
2. Let it import all my iTunes stuff.
3. Added the extension Playlist Export Tool (http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/51)
4. Exported my playlists to ~/Music
5.
Code: [Select]
rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete ~/Music/* /Volumes/IPODNAME/Music/6.
Code: [Select]
touch /Volumes/IPODNAME/iPod_Control/Music/database.ignore

This might be useful information in the IpodFAQ page or some other wiki page (maybe UsefulTools).
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: geruvah on February 16, 2009, 02:10:40 AM
All that seemed to work until ~/Music.
Is that a folder within the ipod or something in the computer like where the music for iTunes is located? Then after that, what are those next two steps of code?

Sorry, when it comes to coding, I know nothing unless it's a little xml.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: kiwibird on February 16, 2009, 08:47:10 AM
All that seemed to work until ~/Music.
Is that a folder within the ipod or something in the computer like where the music for iTunes is located? Then after that, what are those next two steps of code?

~ means your home folder. So ~/Music is the folder called "Music" in your home folder, where I assume you've put all your mp3s etc. I'm running a Mac, for windows I have no idea how to do all this, although for Linux it should be fairly similar.

Anyway, if you've exported the playlists to the folder called "Music" within your home folder, then on a Mac or Linux you've got to open Terminal, and then write in the code in step 5; but before pressing enter, you have to exchange "/Volumes/IPODNAME/Music/" for the address to your ipod. I think on a Mac, this'll show up if you press Apple+I when you've got your ipod selected in Finder, and it'll say that the ipod is mounted to something like "/Volumes/MyIpod", in that case you put "/Volumes/MyIpod/Music/" (you get the picture?).

(Alternatively, in Terminal, first type "mount" and it'll show you all connected disks, and one of them should be "mounted" to /Volumes/MyIpod or whatever. This works for Linux too, where iPods tend to get mounted to /mnt/MyIpod or /media/MyIpod or something.)

Anyway, once you've found where the iPod is mounted, type your equivalent of
Code: [Select]
rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete ~/Music/* /Volumes/MyIpod/Music/
into Terminal, and then your equivalent of
Code: [Select]
touch /Volumes/IPODNAME/iPod_Control/Music/database.ignore
Best of luck to you!


EDIT: iTunes doesn't run on Linux does it? Doh.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: geruvah on February 16, 2009, 11:01:30 PM
Thanks a LOT Kiwibird! That went very smoothly. On a Mac, they don't usually say things like "/Volumes/Ipodname" (Just the ipodname) so I had to do what you said about typing mount and it helped get rid of any doubt. That should definitely be added in the wiki, since a lot of playlist solutions exist for Windows.

If you don't mind me asking, what do these codes do? It looks like it just gets ready for me to be able to put playlists on the ipod. So now I can just drag and drop them in the root, "/Volumes/iPodname" right?

*tries*
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: kiwibird on February 17, 2009, 02:02:59 AM
If you don't mind me asking, what do these codes do? It looks like it just gets ready for me to be able to put playlists on the ipod. So now I can just drag and drop them in the root, "/Volumes/iPodname" right?

rsync will synchronize your home music folder and your iPod music folder; so if you exported your playlists to your home music folder _before_ running the rsync command, they should also be put onto your iPod.

touch just creates an empty file (database.ignore) in the iTunes-folder on your iPod, making RockBox ignore all those iTunes files with four-letter names.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: geruvah on February 17, 2009, 05:15:02 AM
Alright, now that I'm understanding this, I know where the problem is.

"EGGO" is my username. "ALAIN" is my iPod's name; it has nothing in it other than your usual folders (Calendars, Contacts, Notes, and I also added an empty folder called Music).

Quote
rsync: link_stat "/Users/EGGO/Volumes/Alpha/Music/*" failed: No such file or directory (2)

I store my music (with the Music and Itunes folder) on a seperate harddrive (named Alpha).
"rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete Volumes/Alpha/Music/* /Volumes/ALAIN/Music/"

So the problem, it seems, is that despite saying Volumes/Alpha/Music, it points to it after going through the users when it shouldn't since it's in a whole different hard drive.

Sorry if this is trying your patience. I thought that would've been it, but I am having a better understanding how this thing works.
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: kiwibird on February 17, 2009, 06:25:04 AM
"EGGO" is my username. "ALAIN" is my iPod's name; it has nothing in it other than your usual folders (Calendars, Contacts, Notes, and I also added an empty folder called Music).

Quote
rsync: link_stat "/Users/EGGO/Volumes/Alpha/Music/*" failed: No such file or directory (2)

I store my music (with the Music and Itunes folder) on a seperate harddrive (named Alpha).
"rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete Volumes/Alpha/Music/* /Volumes/ALAIN/Music/"

So the problem, it seems, is that despite saying Volumes/Alpha/Music, it points to it after going through the users when it shouldn't since it's in a whole different hard drive.

Sorry if this is trying your patience. I thought that would've been it, but I am having a better understanding how this thing works.

No problem at all. I believe you're just missing a single "/", you have
Code: [Select]
rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete Volumes/Alpha/Music/* /Volumes/ALAIN/Music/ where you should have
Code: [Select]
rsync -avW --progress --size-only --delete /Volumes/Alpha/Music/* /Volumes/ALAIN/Music/
To explain: if you've just opened Terminal, it'll be "in" your home folder (/Users/EGGO), so when you wrote just "Volumes/Alpha...", Terminal figured you meant a folder called Volumes within the directory you're in. Putting a "/" makes the path "absolute" (that is, not relative to your current directory), and tells Terminal you want the Volumes-folder that's in the Root folder of you hard drive... (but this is getting rather off-topic, see http://osxdaily.com/2007/03/30/mac-os-x-directory-structure-explained/ for more info...)
Title: Re: [iPod 5G] Read iPod native playlists in Rb database
Post by: Ishtar on February 20, 2009, 01:08:35 AM
Just wanted to say that I was in the same boat as Geruvah. But my problem is that when I use that Terminal command, it says there's not enough space. The playlists I'm trying to sync only takes up half of the hard-drive though, so I'm assuming it's because it's because it's trying to transfer ALL of my songs (which is more than what my ipod is capable of holding).