Rockbox Technical Forums

Support and General Use => Hardware => Topic started by: Avid on May 09, 2007, 07:34:25 PM

Title: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Avid on May 09, 2007, 07:34:25 PM


So there would be little or no modifacation to the actual gigabeat?

I assume No work can be started on this until we have metioned connectors?



I would see no reason to modify the gigabeat.  

If we want to create a standardized product then we should establish exactly which connections we want this docking station to present.

Although, if we really want to discuss this issue I would suggest starting a new topic as this one claims to be about Mpegplayer.



So the "line out" jack would serve as a port for the AV cables, if indeed it is possible.  Now im not a programer, so how would the USB host function work?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: gnu on May 10, 2007, 07:41:24 AM
The USB host function would work like this:

Gigabeat -> connector (2x Data, +5VCC, Ground) -> usb plug -> usb device (e.g. memory stick).

But since there are no USB drivers for Rockbox, it wouldn't make much sense.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Avid on May 10, 2007, 01:08:20 PM
Is there anyone currently working/thinking for working on this project?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on May 10, 2007, 01:52:10 PM
What connections seem worthwhile for such a dock?  We have no access to line in -- which, according to my understanding, is what prevents recording on the Gigabeats.  We can connect to line-out and provide a connection to the USB port for the Gigabeat to act as a device (not host).  Power, obviously. . .  But this just starts to sound like the stock cradle that came with the device.  What other functionality can we gain?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on May 10, 2007, 02:09:55 PM
look here for the project on the dock
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatCustomdock

Come on the irc channel #gigabeat on freenode to speak about it.

And help us to find the connector so we can build our own :)
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Mad Cow on May 10, 2007, 03:00:39 PM

What connections seem worthwhile for such a dock?  We have no access to line in -- which, according to my understanding, is what prevents recording on the Gigabeats.  We can connect to line-out and provide a connection to the USB port for the Gigabeat to act as a device (not host).  Power, obviously. . .  But this just starts to sound like the stock cradle that came with the device.  What other functionality can we gain?


I'm pretty sure that we have almost fully digital connections to the CPU and DAC, so we can pretty much do anything we want with the right hardware in the dock.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on May 10, 2007, 03:17:53 PM
Mad
Quote
I'm pretty sure that we have almost fully digital connections to the CPU and DAC, so we can pretty much do anything we want with the right hardware in the dock.


You are right, we just need the good hardware to do it
Once again check the pinout of the connector there
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatPortPins
and the custom dock project there :
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatCustomdock

and welcome if you want help us
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Mad Cow on May 10, 2007, 03:51:30 PM

Mad
Quote
I'm pretty sure that we have almost fully digital connections to the CPU and DAC, so we can pretty much do anything we want with the right hardware in the dock.


You are right, we just need the good hardware to do it
Once again check the pinout of the connector there
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatPortPins
and the custom dock project there :
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatCustomdock

and welcome if you want help us


I wish I could help, but I can't really do anything useful for this project apart from soldering stuff and testing.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on May 10, 2007, 08:20:25 PM
I can stuff a circuit board, but I'm missing some key pieces in understanding how to get all of the info that we want into separate lines from the pins presented to us in the dock.  How do we get access to the other "Ports" listed on that PortPins page?  Do we have to demux signals that come out of the dock?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Mad Cow on May 10, 2007, 08:46:43 PM

I can stuff a circuit board, but I'm missing some key pieces in understanding how to get all of the info that we want into separate lines from the pins presented to us in the dock.  How do we get access to the other "Ports" listed on that PortPins page?  Do we have to demux signals that come out of the dock?


I'm guessing you'll need a processor to convert between signal types.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: elborak on May 10, 2007, 08:51:10 PM
Unless you need to reclock or something, you shouldn't need a processor. A gate array should be able to do the trick more cheaply and simply.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Mad Cow on May 10, 2007, 10:00:14 PM

Unless you need to reclock or something, you shouldn't need a processor. A gate array should be able to do the trick more cheaply and simply.


And that's why is should shut up about stuff I know nothing about. :P

You learn something new every day.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on May 10, 2007, 10:09:04 PM

I can stuff a circuit board, but I'm missing some key pieces in understanding how to get all of the info that we want into separate lines from the pins presented to us in the dock.  How do we get access to the other "Ports" listed on that PortPins page?  Do we have to demux signals that come out of the dock?


You can access only the signals available on the dock connector (40 pins connector) , all the other information on this page are for software use.
The name of the signals are easy to understand I2S, I2c ....
Connection to this signals are direct, example : you have to feed an interface with the 2 signals of the I2C to make work an I2C interface
There is also a software part to enable these signals
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on May 11, 2007, 11:16:44 AM
Okay, so from the software side we need to tell the processor to send data to the I2c pins (for instance).  Are these all digital I/O ports?  (Pardon my ignorance.)  Then it seems like we still need some sort of logic to tell us how to route the data presented at the I2c pins to the correct connector in the docking station.  Is this approximately correct?

I appreciate your expertise, toffe!  I have a passing familiarity with analog/digital electronics, but mainly low-level stuff.  I'm not too experienced with instrumentation (as you can tell).  
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on May 11, 2007, 11:38:40 AM
The signal on the connector are direct from the cpu or goes though a switch (they are all digital except the audio out and the the 2 analog input), look the block diagram there :
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/GigabeatInfo?rev=1;filename=gigabeat_f40_block_diagrams_rotated.pdf

So, to use the signals you have to have a component which accept directly these signals, like an digital to analog audio converter which will accept I2S or you have to build some logic or going through a fpga.

And in the firmware, you have to validate the data and command to these pins
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on May 11, 2007, 01:50:43 PM
Thanks toffe!  That clears things up for me quite a bit.  I won't be able to help with the firmware side of things, but I can probably do something along the lines of a finite state machine (e.g. selecting output channel, etc.) once the details are a bit more fleshed out.

The analog-in ports are the ones labeled by ADC on the diagram?  I seem to recall mention of a 10-bit ADC on the description of the Samsung processor; is that right?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on May 11, 2007, 01:58:19 PM

The analog-in ports are the ones labeled by ADC on the diagram?  I seem to recall mention of a 10-bit ADC on the description of the Samsung processor; is that right?


yes

If you make the interface, there are people who will modified the firmware to make it work

It would be nice if you can come on the irc #gigabeat on freenode, it would be faster to talk  ;)
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on May 11, 2007, 02:19:54 PM
Yeah, I can only interact sporadically though.  I can dash off the odd message here and there (I'm at work).  And unfortunately I have no internet access at home, which puts a damper on things.  Maybe I'll hang around after I finish with work today and get on the IRC chan, though.  The prospect of unlocking additional functionality is exciting.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on May 15, 2007, 05:06:23 PM
For those interested, it looks like Digi-Key carries FPC (flexible printed cable) connectors suitable for attaching to the FPC from the Gigabeat's stock cradle.

See here (http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T072/0069-0075.pdf).

I guess the next step is laying out a suitable board with this connector and providing serviceable attachment points for bringing the desired signals over to a protoboard.

I'll post back here with any progress.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: roemann on June 27, 2007, 07:14:11 PM
Does anyone know if the pinouts for the MES60V are the same as the ones shown for the F-series?

Also, and I know these may seem obvious to all the experts, but can someone tell me which pin on the connector is number 1--for example, with the unit face up on a table and looking at the bottom, is it the top right or left, or what?  How are they numbered from that starting point ?  Also, can anyone translate the pinout labels shown in Hardware into something resembling English without the acronyms?

Sorry, for being so simple-minded, but I am desparate to make a cradle for my MES.  Unlike people with an F-series, we did not get a cradle with the device, and none are on the market that I know of.

Thanks a heap for any help.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: roemann on June 27, 2007, 07:52:57 PM
I found a good source for the cell phone sync cables with the connector that fits the Gigabeat if anyone wants to try to build a dock.

http://www.thepocketsolution.com/PSI-657.html

They are only 9.95 plus 3.00 for S&H.  I bought two and they are really easy to disassemble--just need  small screw driver.  Still have to do a little desoldering though.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on June 28, 2007, 11:22:12 AM
That might be helpful.  I would prefer a connector that can be attached to a circuit board, however.  

On a side note, I tried to download the kicad binaries to have a play with laying out a board but I can only find the linux binaries.  I am missing the winexe directory.  Perhaps I need to get a previous release.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on June 28, 2007, 10:42:31 PM
Chronon,

Kicad download is here : http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/
choose the zip or install file :     vendredi 25 mai 2007    12:00     70175641 kicad-2007-05-25.zip
                                                  vendredi 25 mai 2007    12:37     78104750 KiCad-2007-05-25-WinXP_autoinstall.zip

Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on June 29, 2007, 02:08:23 PM
Thanks toffe!

BTW, I'm probably most interested in getting TV out working from the dock.  It seems like the i2c drivers are ready so we can send the output from Mpegplayer to i2c if someone codes this.  It seems like we will need a chip to encode into PAL/NTSC, correct?

I've got it installed properly now.  I'll start playing with this and see how it goes.  It seems like a logical first step is just a breakout board for bridging the signals to a proto-board for testing.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Phalangees on July 11, 2007, 08:47:18 PM
This all sounds awesome!! Great work guys.

Something I would really like to see is a simple gigabeat to ipod dock connector and drivers so ipod accessories can be used with a rockboxed gigabeat. If I had the knowledge to do something like that I would do it... but I don't.  :P
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Davide-NYC on October 14, 2007, 08:20:44 PM
Some sort of SPDIF to I2C device would make a lot of recording enthusiasts happy. Especially if it  could record at 24bit/96kHz!

Not sure if this is possible but if it were the gigabeat would supplant the iriver h1x0 as the DAP of choice for recording folks.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on October 15, 2007, 12:06:06 AM
Agreed.  And while we're putting signals into/out of the dock an ADC module to allow analog recording would also be nice.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: markun on October 16, 2007, 10:14:20 AM
If someone wants just S/PDIF in and out I think you could use this one:

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/WM8804/
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Davide-NYC on October 23, 2007, 12:41:49 PM
Just wanted to post this for the record:

If a schematic is devised for a SPDIF enabled dock I would definitely be willing to (try to) build it and test it.

I do not have the skills to design such a thing or to do the requisite programming, but I can solder and test.

I have a gigabeat dock I am willing to dissect it. I am also willing to spend a few dollars to procure the required chips and parts etc.

Let me know...  ;D
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: markun on October 23, 2007, 05:26:22 PM
Does your ADC use an optical/toslink connection or coax?

I think a good start for this would be the schematics on page 64 of the WM8804 datasheet (http://wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/WM8804.pdf), what do you guys think?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on October 23, 2007, 06:01:41 PM
It seems to be a good component, doesn't need a lot of external component.
We just have to figure out where to connect everything.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Mad Cow on October 24, 2007, 01:05:15 PM
Having SPDIF with the stock dock would be amazing. I don't really know much about this stuff though. Is it theoretically possible to wire it up using the I2C and I2S signals available to the dock connector?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Chronon on October 24, 2007, 01:49:19 PM
I think I2S is sufficient for SPDIF.  But I'll defer to those with actual experience in this matter.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Davide-NYC on October 25, 2007, 10:14:49 AM

Does your ADC use an optical/toslink connection or coax?

I think a good start for this would be the schematics on page 64 of the WM8804 datasheet (http://wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/WM8804.pdf), what do you guys think?


Optical. But having both would be best.

Looking at these schematics gets me (personally) nowhere. There are simply too many assumptions I'd have to make. I have repaired a few pieces of analog gear, but not much in terms of digital. And designing anything like this is totally out of the question for me.   :P

Someone that has the knowledge could send me a prototype schematic (complete) and I'd do my very best to try to solder it all together and test it.

Cheers, D.  :)
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Sandman333 on January 04, 2008, 01:25:44 PM
I am in the process of making a simple dock for Gigabeat usage in the car.  I purchased an e800 sync cable off of a seller on ebay for $0.99+$7.49 and the connector fits very nicely.  

Features I plan on making:
-Cigarette lighter power
-Keep gigabeat charged
-Remote control
-Line out to sound system
-Integrated FM transmitter?

The bulk of the unit will be at the power plug end, with the Gigabeat attached to a longish cable tucked away somewhere.  

The only thing I am not sure about is the remote.  I like the functionality of the stock remote, is the same pin that the remote normally uses present on the dock connector?

Also, will the line-out pins (5,6) have enough juice to run a cheap FM transmitter?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on January 04, 2008, 02:34:07 PM

The only thing I am not sure about is the remote.  I like the functionality of the stock remote, is the same pin that the remote normally uses present on the dock connector?


For the remote, you need an analog input, there are 2 available on the connector but you will have to make a special build of rockbox.


Also, will the line-out pins (5,6) have enough juice to run a cheap FM transmitter?


I don't think there is any problem to connect a fm transmitter on the line output, you can try it using the actual dock .
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Sandman333 on January 04, 2008, 11:32:15 PM
Thanks, I think I may go a simpler route now though.  I will purchase an ipod car dock with most of the features I want, mod in the gigabeat connector and be done with it.  

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6031
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6073

With either of these, the gigabeat will be in front of me so I can just use the buttons without trying to make a remote.  
If I am really lucky, the separate headphone jack input will be directly connected to the line-in on the ipod connector.  If so, a cable to the car's audio input would accomplish that goal.  
I hope it won't be in the way of my gearshift lever.  
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: gorman on February 04, 2008, 11:41:34 AM
Hi Sandman333, any updates on your project? I'm really interested in what you are trying to do.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: Sandman333 on February 04, 2008, 12:12:49 PM
I have the dock and gigabeat cable, but my soldering iron is at home (I'm at university).  On the 16th or 17th it should be done.  

I bought the white one, it has an aux in, USB out (for power), and the ipod cable.  I am going to tap into the power from the USB port and the audio in from the headphone jack.  This also leaves options so if I take this to a different car or head unit with an aux in, I can just plug it into the headphone jack on the dock.  Later this week I may update with a wiring diagram.  

I will be leaving the ipod connector in case any friends would rather listen to their tunes.  Also, I may wire up the USB port to the USB host on the gigabeat in case the capability is ever added in rockbox.  
Title: Re: Gigabeat Dock.
Post by: toffe on March 09, 2008, 01:30:56 PM
II found a connector for the gigabeat S
See the picture here :
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatCustomdock

The price, if I can buy 50 is 4.2$ plus shipping (the normal price is 5.95$ plus 5$ shipping

I think I can make the price 6$ including shipping for the US

Let me know
cmdnicolas at gmail dot com