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Rockbox General => Rockbox General Discussion => Topic started by: hunterleo on October 27, 2015, 02:19:28 AM

Title: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 27, 2015, 02:19:28 AM
Hi guys,

We are a new company on portable audio device. We came out an inexpensive (under $30) mp3 player which plays 70 hours lossless music per charge and is good for long time travel. (Check more details about Agptek A02 on Amazon.co.uk and amazon.de) However, its SoC is mips4k core + DSP with limited memory which means it couldn't support Rockbox.

I also realized that ATJ2127 has many limits to make it a better player. I need some suggestions for choosing hardware or solution for rockbox.

Thanks a lot,

Leo


Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on October 27, 2015, 09:20:17 AM
Hi,
if I am correct, the ATJ2127 is the same soc as in the clip sport and does not features enough memory for Rockbox to run. In its current state, Rockbox requires at the very least 1MB of memory to run, with many features disabled. Ideally, you want 2MB or 4MB of memory.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 27, 2015, 10:39:11 PM
Hi,
if I am correct, the ATJ2127 is the same soc as in the clip sport and does not features enough memory for Rockbox to run. In its current state, Rockbox requires at the very least 1MB of memory to run, with many features disabled. Ideally, you want 2MB or 4MB of memory.

Thank you for the reply. I wonder if I could work on a new model which to fit a current rockbox firmware. Which one is best to adapt?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on October 28, 2015, 06:09:48 AM
I am unsure if I undertsood your question properly: you meant which soc is supported by rockbox and is best to build a player with it ?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on October 28, 2015, 08:58:00 PM
Yeah, sounds like he's not happy with the hardware they are currently using and wants their future players to be potential Rockbox targets - or even ship them with Rockbox? :)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 28, 2015, 10:20:16 PM
I am unsure if I undertsood your question properly: you meant which soc is supported by rockbox and is best to build a player with it ?

Yeah, you got it. You guys were building rockbox for players. I want to do it the other way around.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on October 29, 2015, 06:23:18 AM
I see :) So obviously we support quite a number of SoC but not that many of them are still in production. I guess the following still are:
Otherwise, just choose any chip that matches the following requirements:
I hope I listed everything.
Also it's far simpler if the device uses eMMC or microsd for storage and not raw flash (except possibly for the bootloader).
But all kinds of things are possible, like the Fiio X1 that uses a raw flash+SDRAM chip which contains the bootloader, and microsd for everything else.
The DAC does not need to be integrate in the SoC, same for power managment unit.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on October 29, 2015, 08:12:24 AM
Good sounding hardware would be nice. :) And even nicer if Rockbox would run efficiently on it.

And even if you're  aiming to make a very affordable player, make sure it will last a bit. Don't cheap out on buttons and jacks. I bet I'm not the only one who prefers a great value for money to an incredibly cheap product.

Speaking of buttons: Your current players don't have enough buttons to use Rockbox comfortably.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 29, 2015, 10:35:53 PM
Thanks a lots. Those suitable chips are quite old. Just talked with Rockchip. RK 27xxx discontinued. Current solutions are NANO-C and NANO-D.

NANO-C only has 1MB RAM. The specs of Nano-D is as attached. Is it great for Rockbox?

Which player is best for rockbox for now?

Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 29, 2015, 10:45:18 PM
Good sounding hardware would be nice. :) And even nicer if Rockbox would run efficiently on it.

And even if you're  aiming to make a very affordable player, make sure it will last a bit. Don't cheap out on buttons and jacks. I bet I'm not the only one who prefers a great value for money to an incredibly cheap product.

Speaking of buttons: Your current players don't have enough buttons to use Rockbox comfortably.

Thank you for the advice! Although we are aiming the mass market, but we don't use cheap material. The buttons were imported in Japan. Check out our new model. AGPTEK B03 has two more buttons to A02.

Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on October 30, 2015, 02:54:21 AM
Is atj213x still in stock? It is possible target for rockbox (I made some work for this SoC in this direction). Nano-d has too little ram (if I read the informations provided correctly). As pamaury stated earlier, 4MB of ram is about the smallest feasible amount unless you can memory map flash and run code from there which saves you something like ~300-400kB max.
Ingenic 4760 is used in Fiio X1 so I assume it is readily available.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 30, 2015, 05:18:17 AM
Is atj213x still in stock? It is possible target for rockbox (I made some work for this SoC in this direction). Nano-d has too little ram (if I read the informations provided correctly). As pamaury stated earlier, 4MB of ram is about the smallest feasible amount unless you can memory map flash and run code from there which saves you something like ~300-400kB max.
Ingenic 4760 is used in Fiio X1 so I assume it is readily available.

Yes, ATJ2137 still is in production. Is it a good choice for rockbox?

Ingenic 4760 used BGA packages which is not good for mass production. (easy to get loose)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on October 30, 2015, 08:19:41 AM
Thank you for the advice! Although we are aiming the mass market, but we don't use cheap material. The buttons were imported in Japan. Check out our new model. AGPTEK B03 has two more buttons to A02.

Nice! I'm currently using a Sansa Clip Zip, which is my only experience with a low cost player. The buttons seem to be one of its weaker points. The one I'm pressing the most doesn't "click" anymore like it's supposed to. Still works, though. :) It's other weakness is the display. It just isn't bright enough for outside use.

Thanks a lots. Those suitable chips are quite old.


The good thing about those old chips is that Rockbox is already running on them, so setting up a port for your new player would need less effort.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on October 30, 2015, 01:10:34 PM
If BGA is a no-no, I guess this rules out quite a number of chips, on the other hand, there probably are plenty of chips we don't know about. Doing a new port isn't really an obstacle here, as long as the soc has documentation. So I guess the real requirements boils down to ARM/MIPS and can be interfaced with at least 4MB of RAM. If it helps, Rockbox does not even need a MMU.
I think NXP might have such chips (the LPC series), as well as ST Micro (the higher-end STM32 have a external memory interface I believe). Atmel has such chips, they definitely do have BGA one but not sure for QFP. Cirrus Logic have some of these (like the EP9302 but possibly not powerful enough/suitable for MP3), might be worth a look. Freescale i.MX233 exists in QFP package, and possibly more recent Freescale chips might do. On the high-end of the spectrum, Allwiner has some QFP chips but those are probably beasts and are very big anyway. TI has tons of chips (OMAP, Sitara) but I can't really tell right-away from the website if they have QFP versions. Marvell used to do interesting chips, not sure what they are doing now ;)

EDIT: I will fill this list when I find parts
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: saratoga on October 30, 2015, 03:42:06 PM
Whats wrong with BGA?  Too expensive for you to assemble?  Seems widely used for low cost players. 
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on October 31, 2015, 04:26:15 AM
No BGA seems strange for me. Mass production using BGA chips is actually cheaper, PCB can be of higher density etc. etc. BGA may be hard for hobbiests but this is really industrial starndard for something like 15 years now.
ATJ213x is capable enough to run rockbox. I am working on the port for this platform but my spare time is very limited nowadays.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 02, 2015, 03:25:49 AM
BGA is not a big problem. However, it increased the defect rate of the device, if my manufacturer wasn't wrong about it. Ingenic 4760 costs about $50 for just the chip. It is too expensive for a low cost player.

ATJ213x's biggest problem is the power consumption which is about 32mA per hour for music playback. ATJ2127 is about 12mA per hour.

Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 02, 2015, 09:22:40 AM
When I did research for my hobby project, imx233 from Freescale was the most cost effective solution (pamaury mentioned it already) BUT I considered only chips available is single pieces in Europe.

I am not contesting provided power consumption numbers (as I don't have proper documentatin) BUT SoC consumes usually only tiny fraction of whole system power draw. At what conditions provided consumption was measured?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 02, 2015, 09:17:43 PM
When I did research for my hobby project, imx233 from Freescale was the most cost effective solution (pamaury mentioned it already) BUT I considered only chips available is single pieces in Europe.

I am not contesting provided power consumption numbers (as I don't have proper documentatin) BUT SoC consumes usually only tiny fraction of whole system power draw. At what conditions provided consumption was measured?
The test result is Chinese. I tried to translate it into English.

ATJ2137:
Original OS , LCD 1.8 TFT, battery 3.8V, volume level 24 music playback ,screen on, 52mA
Original OS , LCD 1.8 TFT, battery 3.8V, volume level 24 music playback ,screen off, 32mA

ATJ2127
Original OS , LCD 1.8 TFT, battery 3.8V, volume level 24 music playback ,screen on, 22mA
Original OS , LCD 1.8 TFT, battery 3.8V, volume level 24 music playback ,screen off, 12mA

 I will look into imx233 from Freescale which I wasn't familiar with. Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on November 02, 2015, 11:01:13 PM
Low power consumption sure is the strong point of the ATJ2127. Is that only possible because it has rather limited possibilities?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 03, 2015, 12:56:22 AM
I can't say definitely rockbox will do much better but eCOS based original firmware for atj213x is, lets put it mildly, suboptimal. At least the versions I disassembled so far.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 03, 2015, 03:30:09 AM
Low power consumption sure is the strong point of the ATJ2127. Is that only possible because it has rather limited possibilities?

It's phone era now. Many chip makers don't pay much attention at mp3 player now. Not much options out there.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 03, 2015, 04:00:07 AM
I can't say definitely rockbox will do much better but eCOS based original firmware for atj213x is, lets put it mildly, suboptimal. At least the versions I disassembled so far.

So, we can make power consumption of ATJ213X with rockbox lower? What device are you working on a new port for ATJ213X. Can I help you in any way?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on November 03, 2015, 07:24:58 AM
I would be extremely careful with manufacturer figures. For example the Fuze+ with Freescale OS lasts 25h on a 550mAh battery but Rockbox lasts around 45h. And most of the savings don't come from the CPU, since with proper frequency management you can decrease it a lot,  but rather properly shutting down or suspending LCD, touchpad, mmc/sd.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 03, 2015, 11:37:05 AM
I am working on Iriver e100/150/200/300 series (e150 is my playground). If you have documentation for atj213x (or more precisely the one I don't have) that would be helpful.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: saratoga on November 03, 2015, 11:46:39 AM
ATJ213XX is pretty old, so it may not be as efficient as newer parts.  Still, well optimized most chips do roughly 1.5 to 2x what the vendor claims once properly optimized.

The new atj cores without dram do well by having such simple hardware, but not that well. The old as3525v2 uses nearly the same current once voltage scaling is enabled, and it has real dram and no DSP, just arm9e. I think the DSP is more about cost savings than anything.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 03, 2015, 10:39:39 PM
I would be extremely careful with manufacturer figures. For example the Fuze+ with Freescale OS lasts 25h on a 550mAh battery but Rockbox lasts around 45h. And most of the savings don't come from the CPU, since with proper frequency management you can decrease it a lot,  but rather properly shutting down or suspending LCD, touchpad, mmc/sd.

Great! Thanks for the advice.  I will list all the chips available, and let's figure them out which one is best for rockbox.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 03, 2015, 10:50:06 PM
I am working on Iriver e100/150/200/300 series (e150 is my playground). If you have documentation for atj213x (or more precisely the one I don't have) that would be helpful.

Could you list the documentation precisely you don't have? I checked with the manufacturer, they have several versions (new and old)of packages of documentation for the chip is quite old.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 04, 2015, 05:46:53 AM
I have lots of various documents BUT the crucial one I have are:
Actions ATJ2135N Product Datasheet version 1.0 dated May 2008
Actions ATJ2135 Product Programming Guide version 1.1 dated January 2007

1) I'd love to have linux sources (which I know exist for atj2137n) and some document describing various members of this family (what is the difference between 2135 and 2137 etc.).
2)USB controller is not documented at all in datasheet. I have some idea how it works (I ported hwstub and it works pretty well) based on reverse engineering but thats it.
3)Flash controller documentation is vague and incomplete in datasheet.
4)DSP core is not documented. I know it is instruction compatible with ADSP-21xx but I suspect it has 24bit data path and have some custom registers.
5)Documentation for eCOS SDK would be nice - what are components:
 - what is BREC, MBREC how they are stored on flash
 - how exactly boot process is done
 - what is actually run on DSP
6)I have no idea what FTL is used.

Any help in this topics is appreciated.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 05, 2015, 04:04:29 AM
OK. wodz. I will search them.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bonusbartus on November 11, 2015, 05:24:35 AM
Maybe I can help out.
I do have lot of resources at the company I work for, so I could ask around and find some chips for you. I would love to get a new rockbox player to be developed... still on my H340 now.

Can someone give me the requirements for a rockbox'able soc?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 11, 2015, 08:26:12 AM
1) 32bit 100MHz+ reasonable architecture for which there is free compiler
2) external memory interface so you can build system with 4MB+ of ram
3) I2S block or optionaly integrated codec (DAC+output amplifier)
4) serial or parallel lcd interface
5) sd interface for mass storage
6) serial/parallel flash interface for boot memory
7) Documentation available
8) For this particular application - CHEAP
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bonusbartus on November 11, 2015, 09:52:47 AM
take a look at this STM product range, as far as I can tell they have everything you need.
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1577/LN1806?ecmp=stm32f429-439_pron_pr-ces2014_nov2013&sc=stm32f429-439-pr
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1577

price is about 10 euros per chip. and is available as non-bga. ARM-M4 architecture.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: tekron on November 11, 2015, 08:13:27 PM
i have no idea what you guys are talking about but i am so ready for a device designed around rockbox!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 12, 2015, 12:58:44 AM
I'm back. Just get confimed by chip company, ATJ213X is discontinued. Here is everything I can find for ATJ223X. I will keep looking for 213X.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8JBEkf7yF_JUnNWLWhDSHdRaEU&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8JBEkf7yF_JUnNWLWhDSHdRaEU&usp=sharing)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 12, 2015, 08:52:03 AM
Thanks, interesting reading. Why it is reffered as atj223x while inside there are docs for atj213x?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: emacsomancer on November 14, 2015, 03:33:42 PM
Just to add that I would definitely buy such a device (or three) were it to be produced.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 20, 2015, 05:27:08 AM
take a look at this STM product range, as far as I can tell they have everything you need.
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1577/LN1806?ecmp=stm32f429-439_pron_pr-ces2014_nov2013&sc=stm32f429-439-pr
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1577

price is about 10 euros per chip. and is available as non-bga. ARM-M4 architecture.

Hi, I'm interested in your chip. Do your company have a representative or someone I can contact with in China?

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 20, 2015, 05:31:57 AM
Thanks, interesting reading. Why it is reffered as atj223x while inside there are docs for atj213x?

As far as I can tell, I only found docs for ATJ atj223x. Which doc did you refer to ?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on November 20, 2015, 06:32:29 AM
Archive ATJ223X_LDIII_Firmware_V1.02_1100_100318.rar

For example
usdk213f/psp_rel/include/asm-mips/mach-atj213x/*

register descriptions match atj213x for sure.

Datasheet for atj223x from doc package mostly match that I have for atj213x.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 23, 2015, 09:27:53 PM
Archive ATJ223X_LDIII_Firmware_V1.02_1100_100318.rar

For example
usdk213f/psp_rel/include/asm-mips/mach-atj213x/*

register descriptions match atj213x for sure.

Datasheet for atj223x from doc package mostly match that I have for atj213x.

Hi, I confirmed with the manufacturer the docs for 213X and 223X are the same.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on November 24, 2015, 08:50:26 PM
take a look at this STM product range, as far as I can tell they have everything you need.
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1577/LN1806?ecmp=stm32f429-439_pron_pr-ces2014_nov2013&sc=stm32f429-439-pr
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM141/SC1169/SS1577

price is about 10 euros per chip. and is available as non-bga. ARM-M4 architecture.

Hi, I'm interested in your chip. Do your company have a representative or someone I can contact with in China?

Thank you,

Leo

ST does have offices in China: http://www.st.com/stonline/contactus/contacts/index.php?type=2#ASIA
There's even a chinese language version of their website: http://www.st.com/web/cn/home.html
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: alexweissman on December 01, 2015, 07:59:36 PM
This is awesome.  A player built specifically for Rockbox has to be the future of Rockbox.  Otherwise, there is always going to be the problem of the device manufacturer discontinuing the device, just when the bugs in the build for that device are finally getting ironed out.

I can see a lot of potential in a true partnership between the Rockbox community and the device manufacturer.  I'd buy one of these devices in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Falco98 on December 03, 2015, 04:12:23 PM
I just stumbled in here, and I'll say that i'm scared to death of the click wheel on my Fuze+ finally dying and me losing the best player I've owned (and nearly impossible to replace these days).  So I'd totally be in for some robust and functionally-similar replacement (though i'm fine without the 'wheel' style navigation FWIW).

@Hunterleo: did you happen to review through this older thread?  http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,6751.0.html  I bring it up only because some users here were able to custom-design their own chipset and (as far as i remember) get something running on it.  Maybe all that is outdated by now (and i note you've been talking with others here far more experienced with this hardware than I am), but maybe worth taking a look still.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on December 06, 2015, 10:28:36 PM
I just stumbled in here, and I'll say that i'm scared to death of the click wheel on my Fuze+ finally dying and me losing the best player I've owned (and nearly impossible to replace these days).  So I'd totally be in for some robust and functionally-similar replacement (though i'm fine without the 'wheel' style navigation FWIW).

@Hunterleo: did you happen to review through this older thread?  http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,6751.0.html  I bring it up only because some users here were able to custom-design their own chipset and (as far as i remember) get something running on it.  Maybe all that is outdated by now (and i note you've been talking with others here far more experienced with this hardware than I am), but maybe worth taking a look still.

WOW. It is quite a long story. Thanks for the info. I will dig into it.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: [Saint] on December 07, 2015, 01:23:40 AM
The various 'Lyre' incarnations, sadly, detail quite clearly the hows and whys of this being a largely impractical and practically insurmountable task.


[Saint]
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on December 09, 2015, 04:37:22 AM
1) 32bit 100MHz+ reasonable architecture for which there is free compiler
2) external memory interface so you can build system with 4MB+ of ram
3) I2S block or optionaly integrated codec (DAC+output amplifier)
4) serial or parallel lcd interface
5) sd interface for mass storage
6) serial/parallel flash interface for boot memory
7) Documentation available
8) For this particular application - CHEAP

Hi, What if we add 8MB RAM on system for ATJ2127. Is it capable of porting rockbox?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: alexweissman on December 09, 2015, 12:45:51 PM
Has there ever been a survey done on the types of devices that are actually being used with Rockbox?

If it turns out that the majority of Rockbox'd devices are no longer in production, this could mean that the need for a new device designed specifically for Rockbox is more critical for the survival of the project than it was back in 2006.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on December 09, 2015, 01:32:11 PM
I don't have DS for atj2127. The limited information I have are that 1) it has very weird memory map (could be no issue with external 8MB of ram) 2) Audio decoding is done in some dedicated DSP block. I don't know if it is easy to interface this with software decoders (as rockbox provides). Other then this rockbox is not particularly well optimized on MIPS. Most of optimizations were done for ARM.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: saratoga on December 09, 2015, 03:41:54 PM
If it turns out that the majority of Rockbox'd devices are no longer in production, this could mean that the need for a new device designed specifically for Rockbox is more critical for the survival of the project than it was back in 2006.

Aside from when the early iPod models were added and then with the Sandisk players in the late 2000s, its usually the case that no supported devices are in production. 
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Falco98 on December 14, 2015, 04:45:36 PM
The various 'Lyre' incarnations, sadly, detail quite clearly the hows and whys of this being a largely impractical and practically insurmountable task.

You really don't think there's even a reasonable chance that a company dedicated to commercially producing a player designed for rockbox could use it as some sort of a roadmap or starting point, hardware-wise?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on February 28, 2016, 11:31:32 AM
How is this progressing Leo? Can we expect Rockbox capable AGPtEK/Ruizu anytime soon?  :)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: natanelho on April 05, 2016, 07:22:52 AM
is your company dead, Leo? I really wanted to buy a new MP3 rockbox player...
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on April 05, 2016, 05:12:27 PM
I guess he just couldn't find any suitable hardware to make a cheap player for rockbox.  :'(
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on April 06, 2016, 01:39:09 AM
Sorry! Guys. Long time!

Our company is still alive. No worries. We won't stop making a better music player with or without rockbox.

We found a chip is suitable for rockbox. But it is not stable enough. We are working on it and keep looking a better solution.

Thank you,

Leo

Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on April 06, 2016, 10:30:38 AM
That's great to hear! Hope it all works out. Really looking forward to a Rockbox player. :)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on April 08, 2016, 03:30:14 AM
Me too! Can't wait to see how this is progressing. ;D Good luck with it. :)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Yakuman on April 08, 2016, 11:49:50 PM
I will buy whatever the next device is that runs Rockbox. My Sansa E200 is getting old.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: OzCow on April 09, 2016, 01:14:10 AM
Longtime user, first time poster. I had been wondering if anyone had thought of the idea of manufacturing a player specifically with the intent of it being optimized for a Roxbox port. Seriously, this firmware is incredibly versatile in its functionality, and I absolutely love it. In the age of augmented reality, modern computer graphics, and masturbatory vibrator apps for your Android device, its absolutely astounding that things like basic file organization options and dynamic playlists are absent in most low cost mp3 players. </rant> I'm really delighted to see this thread. Keep it up y'all.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Doghouse Riley on April 12, 2016, 08:02:57 AM
Leo:

I hang out on an audiobooks forum where there is a lot of discussion about standalone media players.  Your company's devices have gotten a lot of positive comments there from purchasers, with the only issues being bookmarking and file naming/playback order. 

Both of which would be solved by Rockbox with its great bookmarking and .m3u support.  I know it's tough to work to the kind of margins in your business with players selling for $20-$25, and I'm just this one guy, but I'll absolutely pay twice that for a new player that's fully rockboxable.  Hell, I'll probably buy half a dozen at that price.

DR
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on April 12, 2016, 06:42:48 PM
It might be worth the effort. Being the first company that offers a player that comes with Rockbox would a great marketing opportunity.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: AstroBoy on April 19, 2016, 07:56:04 PM
Leo,
Please make it with a glass screen!  Or something that does not scratch easily.

Thanks.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on April 20, 2016, 05:34:54 AM
A glass screen would break easily.  ;D
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: AstroBoy on April 20, 2016, 05:57:05 PM
Well, if glass will break, then use whatever glass like stuff they use on cell phones.  My cell phones don't scratch or break.  My E200 is scratched and cracked, so don't use plastic.  Please.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on April 28, 2016, 05:50:38 PM
You can solve that problem easily and cheap with some screen protectors from eBay.And taking care of the player and carrying it in some protective carrying case. :)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on April 28, 2016, 07:37:06 PM
Well, if glass will break, then use whatever glass like stuff they use on cell phones.  My cell phones don't scratch or break.  My E200 is scratched and cracked, so don't use plastic.  Please.

Oh cell phone screens break. Do an image search for "spider app".   ;D
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Anguis on May 04, 2016, 12:39:32 PM
Having been an enthusiastic RockBox user for several years, I'm very happy to have seen this thread - looking forward to buying this device, when it reaches production.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: tekron on May 09, 2016, 07:49:32 PM
turned on notifies for this thread!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: frank392 on May 10, 2016, 07:10:37 AM
That's great News!! hope to see the new AGPTK mp3 player with RockBox very soon!!!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: turtlepurple on June 02, 2016, 10:44:59 AM
Hey Hunterloo and people
It's so nice to see humans talking to humans before they make something "for the market".

I want to suggest you make one mp3-player that has a single(or two)-color-display like the sansa clip+ and thus gains additional battery life. Also the Good Contrast for me is more important than color.

A now i get that wishlist-feeling :]

I also liked the small size about the clip sport. I'd rather have a bulky small device than a big flat one. But thats taste i guess.

and It was always fun that you could even play pong on a 2x1cm display with 2 persons crunching there fingers on the same mp3-player, but thats part of rockbox, nothing you need to worry about. Guess I want to say those 7 buttons it had where the minimum number for a little bit of comfort but i was fine with it.

I dont know if you're aware of the huge gapping hole that the sansa clip+ left when it stopped to be produced. If you know you dont need to read the next lines.
You can find it on ebay for more than 120€ (what i dont pay) though it cost round 40€ when it was new.
All my friends where very happy with the "sansa clip+" and the more techie-ones had rockbox running on it and where even more happy. Its hard to understand why sansa stopped production of it just to replace it with "clip sport" with slow reaction and color-display that wont work with rockbox. Now they realised and switched back to single-color-display, faster and cheaper "clip jam" but it wont run rockbox.


Well still have fun designing your own product, I'm eager to see it.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: johnb on June 02, 2016, 12:04:11 PM
well, they just released the A12 in Europe which looks like a clip+, I have no clue if that is suitable for Rockbox.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on June 02, 2016, 12:17:23 PM
It looks sweet, i'm almost willing to risk it and order one since it's 14,99 $ but unfortunately I have other expenses right now so I'll have to wait for confirmation.

Leo is this the player you and your team were working for Rockbox support?  :)

EDIT: On the other forum it is confirmed that A12 doesn't support Rockbox. http://www.head-fi.org/t/744865/the-ruizu-x02-dap-thread/585

Seems like we have to wait some more time. :-\
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: SM on June 24, 2016, 11:45:03 PM
It may not be rockboxable but, the A12 is definitely a step in the right direction.

It's not huge, doesn't have a weird fancy button layout, it has a micro SD slot, independent power switch and volume buttons.

I can't wait to see a rockboxable player that is in production.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on June 26, 2016, 09:35:35 PM
Leo,
Please make it with a glass screen!  Or something that does not scratch easily.

Thanks.

Hi We will release a new player with touch buttons and durable glass screen soon. Thanks.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on June 28, 2016, 11:26:19 AM
Will it have Rockbox support?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on June 28, 2016, 09:00:48 PM
Will it have Rockbox support?

Not this one. The Rockbox one takes 3 months to come up.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: wodz on June 29, 2016, 01:15:47 AM
I looked at X1000 materials - thats really nice SoC (at least on the paper) considering $10 price tag.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on June 29, 2016, 10:17:54 PM
I looked at X1000 materials - thats really nice SoC (at least on the paper) considering $10 price tag.

Thanks!

I got some inside news. Ingenic JZ4760B will be discontinued soon. X1000 is the replacement.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: WillScarlett on July 26, 2016, 03:59:29 PM
Hello,

just a quick question: is this project still on schedule?

I am really looking forward to a new rockboxable Player, as all but one of my sansa clip zips have stopped working by now! I think it is really cool, that your company is doing its best to develop that player!

Greetings and good luck
Henrik
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on July 26, 2016, 10:15:39 PM
Hello,

just a quick question: is this project still on schedule?

I am really looking forward to a new rockboxable Player, as all but one of my sansa clip zips have stopped working by now! I think it is really cool, that your company is doing its best to develop that player!

Greetings and good luck
Henrik

Yes, do you have any suggestions for the new player?

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: whatshisname on July 26, 2016, 10:48:02 PM
I'd like to see a player along the line of the Sansa Clip Zip, Plus and the rest of that family.

Something small.  Has a clip so you can clip and carry with you - around the house, out for a run, working in the yard or taking a solo trip by car.

Go for as high a res display as you can get.  Like the Clip Zip.

As far as Rockbox users go, I think there is a decent market for types like me who are beginning to wake up to the fact that the Sansa clip players are gone as far as Rockbox is concerned.

That's at least one population of users that has already been identified yet there's nothing on the market right now that can make any of us happy.

We're all wishing you the best!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: callipso on July 27, 2016, 07:11:37 AM
Hello,

just a quick question: is this project still on schedule?

I am really looking forward to a new rockboxable Player, as all but one of my sansa clip zips have stopped working by now! I think it is really cool, that your company is doing its best to develop that player!

Greetings and good luck
Henrik

Yes, do you have any suggestions for the new player?

Thank you,

Leo

Hi Leo,

if it's not too late and you're still on the track in developing a Rockbox player, may I suggest giving the option of line-in or external microphone recording? Players that support this are in short supply, outdated and usually quite expensive. Would it be possible to add that option?

Cheers!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on July 28, 2016, 04:20:06 AM
Hello,

just a quick question: is this project still on schedule?

I am really looking forward to a new rockboxable Player, as all but one of my sansa clip zips have stopped working by now! I think it is really cool, that your company is doing its best to develop that player!

Greetings and good luck
Henrik

Yes, do you have any suggestions for the new player?

Thank you,

Leo

Hi Leo,

if it's not too late and you're still on the track in developing a Rockbox player, may I suggest giving the option of line-in or external microphone recording? Players that support this are in short supply, outdated and usually quite expensive. Would it be possible to add that option?

Cheers!

Hi,

I will talk to our engineer to see what we can do about it.

Thanks for the advice.

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on July 28, 2016, 04:27:44 AM
I'd like to see a player along the line of the Sansa Clip Zip, Plus and the rest of that family.

Something small.  Has a clip so you can clip and carry with you - around the house, out for a run, working in the yard or taking a solo trip by car.

Go for as high a res display as you can get.  Like the Clip Zip.

As far as Rockbox users go, I think there is a decent market for types like me who are beginning to wake up to the fact that the Sansa clip players are gone as far as Rockbox is concerned.

That's at least one population of users that has already been identified yet there's nothing on the market right now that can make any of us happy.

We're all wishing you the best!

We have come out the first model which doesn't have a clip on it. It's full metal casing, so it is too heavy to a clip. We also will launch an armband for it. The clip version would be the second model.

Thank you!

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Kconv on August 02, 2016, 12:46:30 PM
Hello,

just a quick question: is this project still on schedule?

I am really looking forward to a new rockboxable Player, as all but one of my sansa clip zips have stopped working by now! I think it is really cool, that your company is doing its best to develop that player!

Greetings and good luck
Henrik

Yes, do you have any suggestions for the new player?

Thank you,

Leo

Automatic bookmarking. M4B audibook format support.

I got the agptek B03 and the manual bookmarking is loads better than the clip jam or sport, but its not as good rockbox which autobookmarks when you shut it down. I can live without both but they are really nice to have.

I figure the auto bookmarking is probably the more import,since I can manually convert m4b
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: nick_p on August 03, 2016, 08:24:13 AM
Yes, do you have any suggestions for the new player?
Automatic bookmarking. M4B audibook format support.

These are software features.

It might be more useful to limit requests to hardware features for a "low cost mp3 player for rockbox".
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: callipso on August 03, 2016, 02:48:25 PM
I just realised to ask Leo- is Rockbox going to be ported by your company and preinstalled on the player, or will you be shipping it with your own system?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 03, 2016, 09:31:49 PM
I just realised to ask Leo- is Rockbox going to be ported by your company and preinstalled on the player, or will you be shipping it with your own system?

We will ship them with our system first.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: blue96 on August 06, 2016, 07:09:35 AM
@hunterleo
What audio chip is inside the AGPtEK B03, is it the same as in the A02? If yes, then why there's so significant difference in power performance between the two?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 07, 2016, 09:24:04 PM
@hunterleo
What audio chip is inside the AGPtEK B03, is it the same as in the A02? If yes, then why there's so significant difference in power performance between the two?

Do you mean by battery life? Their PCB boards are designed by different engineers. And the B03's battery capacity is smaller because the space is limited.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Milardo on August 08, 2016, 01:20:26 AM
Hi hunterleo,

                   Is the rockbox player in production yet? Any pictures? Specs and pricing?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: callipso on August 08, 2016, 02:23:18 AM
I just realised to ask Leo- is Rockbox going to be ported by your company and preinstalled on the player, or will you be shipping it with your own system?

We will ship them with our system first.

Is it more difficult for your SW engineers to port Rockbox than to create (or port) a proprietary OS for the new platform? I believe that shipping a player with Rockbox preinstalled might get more people to buy it- Rockbox is quite popular and most HW running it is getting painfully obsolete..
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: blue96 on August 08, 2016, 05:17:18 AM
Yes I thought battery life. Now I see why is the difference.
What about the RUIZU X18, does it also use the Actions RJ2127 or something else, possibly better (in terms of sound)?

Do you mean by battery life? Their PCB boards are designed by different engineers. And the B03's battery capacity is smaller because the space is limited.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 08, 2016, 05:29:59 AM
Hello,

just a quick question: is this project still on schedule?

I am really looking forward to a new rockboxable Player, as all but one of my sansa clip zips have stopped working by now! I think it is really cool, that your company is doing its best to develop that player!

Greetings and good luck
Henrik

Yes, do you have any suggestions for the new player?

Thank you,

Leo

Automatic bookmarking. M4B audibook format support.

I got the agptek B03 and the manual bookmarking is loads better than the clip jam or sport, but its not as good rockbox which autobookmarks when you shut it down. I can live without both but they are really nice to have.

I figure the auto bookmarking is probably the more import,since I can manually convert m4b

If you hold the middle button to turn the player off, it will automatically bookmark where it played.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: faelnor on August 09, 2016, 06:27:25 AM
Great project! Features in my dream music player would be, if we exclude the SoC and audio output capabilities:
Do you have any plans to allow for fast data exchange, USB type C and larger SD support?
Is there a physical lock mechanism -- I really missed that feature going from a Gigabeat F to the Sansa Clip Zip?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on August 12, 2016, 12:35:27 PM
How big will the mp3 player be if it's case will be made of metal?

To what other size/mp3 player can it be compared?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Eldus on August 12, 2016, 10:49:04 PM
I would love to see sound quality be of very high importance. It would be cool if you could allow for hi-res decoding say 24-96kHz (or 48). Low output impedance would be great too.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 16, 2016, 01:32:38 AM
Great project! Features in my dream music player would be, if we exclude the SoC and audio output capabilities:
  • FM radio chip
  • SD controller with 2TB card support
  • USB 3.0 or 3.1 controller
  • Easily replaceable, large lithium-ion battery
  • Durable physical lock slider
  • SD slot (ideally full-size)
  • USB type C connector
Do you have any plans to allow for fast data exchange, USB type C and larger SD support?
Is there a physical lock mechanism -- I really missed that feature going from a Gigabeat F to the Sansa Clip Zip?

We will make these features on our high end device.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 16, 2016, 01:33:56 AM
How big will the mp3 player be if it's case will be made of metal?

To what other size/mp3 player can it be compared?

To the size of AGPTEK A02.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: WillScarlett on August 18, 2016, 02:30:35 PM
Hello,
I was out for a while, sorry for that. The most important features for me and the reason I use Rockbox on a ClipZip are:

- Car Adapter Mode
- Automatic Sleep mode (Can be configured to automatically start with sleep mode already activated)
- Ogg Vorbis Support
- Support for a large number of files
- Folder based navigation as well as database navigation with search function and playlists*
- Small size and weight of the Clip zip. But a slightly bigger player will do as well.


When is your first rockboxable model scheduled for a release? And do any of your existing models have my beloved features?

I am very happy that you are still on this task!


*the search function does not really work in Rockbox on the ClipZip, because it is quite painful to type in the letters... the characters are in a wicked order
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 18, 2016, 08:59:10 PM
Hello,
I was out for a while, sorry for that. The most important features for me and the reason I use Rockbox on a ClipZip are:

- Car Adapter Mode
- Automatic Sleep mode (Can be configured to automatically start with sleep mode already activated)
- Ogg Vorbis Support
- Support for a large number of files
- Folder based navigation as well as database navigation with search function and playlists*
- Small size and weight of the Clip zip. But a slightly bigger player will do as well.


When is your first rockboxable model scheduled for a release? And do any of your existing models have my beloved features?

I am very happy that you are still on this task!


*the search function does not really work in Rockbox on the ClipZip, because it is quite painful to type in the letters... the characters are in a wicked order

Thanks for the suggestion. How car adapter mode works?

AGPTEK A12 has most of features you wanted, except for car adapter mode and search function, but I have to admit that rockbox works better for those features.

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: SM on August 18, 2016, 10:14:37 PM
I can't wait to get the rockboxable player, the A12 looks really nice but, I'd rather wait for some rockbox goodness... At least if my Clip Zip lives long enough for that.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: WillScarlett on August 19, 2016, 12:41:50 AM
See 8.5.4 and 8.6.1 of the Manual here: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipzip/rockbox-buildch8.html#x10-1450008.5.4 (http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipzip/rockbox-buildch8.html#x10-1450008.5.4)
When you activate car Adapter Mode in Rockbox, set the Start screen to "resume playback" and hook the Player to a car charger (cigarette lighter plug) and your car Radio (via aux cable), your Player basically works as if it were built into your car Radio. It automatically starts and stops with the turn of the car key/ignition.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on August 19, 2016, 04:55:31 PM
About two months ago Leo said that rockbox player will take about 3 months to release.So I guess it's coming out around September.Can't wait as well, really excited about this one. ;D And even more now if it's gonna be similar to A02 by design and size!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 21, 2016, 09:13:12 PM
See 8.5.4 and 8.6.1 of the Manual here: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipzip/rockbox-buildch8.html#x10-1450008.5.4 (http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipzip/rockbox-buildch8.html#x10-1450008.5.4)
When you activate car Adapter Mode in Rockbox, set the Start screen to "resume playback" and hook the Player to a car charger (cigarette lighter plug) and your car Radio (via aux cable), your Player basically works as if it were built into your car Radio. It automatically starts and stops with the turn of the car key/ignition.


Got it. I will talk to our team to see if we can add this feature onto our new player. Thanks!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: WillScarlett on August 22, 2016, 10:54:05 AM
Got it. I will talk to our team to see if we can add this feature onto our new player. Thanks!
l
Cool!
Well, if your new player supports Rockbox, you will not have to program it yourself ;)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: callipso on August 22, 2016, 11:12:06 AM
Got it. I will talk to our team to see if we can add this feature onto our new player. Thanks!
l
Cool!
Well, if your new player supports Rockbox, you will not have to program it yourself ;)

+1 to that
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 23, 2016, 04:41:04 AM
Got it. I will talk to our team to see if we can add this feature onto our new player. Thanks!
l
Cool!
Well, if your new player supports Rockbox, you will not have to program it yourself ;)

That's the main reason why we develop this player ;D.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: joeyeti on August 23, 2016, 04:47:21 AM
hunterleo,

that is great!

Do you already have a pricerange where this player should sit?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 24, 2016, 08:24:41 PM
hunterleo,

that is great!

Do you already have a pricerange where this player should sit?

It's around 40 USD for the bluetooth version.

Thanks!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on August 25, 2016, 11:51:46 AM
If it's gonna look like A02 or very similar please release it in a cool Yellow color like A02 has! :D

http://rensai.jp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/mp3play006_R.jpg

P.S. It would go great in combination with Yellow/Black Rockbox interface. :P
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: turtlepurple on August 27, 2016, 03:32:58 PM
Hey There,

I'm glad to see this thread is still alive, I'm really eager to see the device.
I used to have Sansa Clip+, now I saw the A12 and was a little bit disappointed
because compared to the A02 it had no OGG-Support(or is that wrong on amazon?), shorter Battery life, was missing the menu-button (compared to clip+) and was still more expensive than A02.

So I Thought maybe the size is actually difficult, and want to state more precisely that it's probably not the size and the clip (that broke in many cases) that are important, but:

- High contrast (glad with 1 color small display)
- all formats + Recorder + Radio (MP3, WMA, OGG, WAV, APE, FLAC)
- easy to change battery (30h+ is fine for me, rather have a quality one)
- durable buttons (7 + vol (+hardware lock would be luxurious))
- microSD

I think you're doing good designs, so I'm just waiting for what you choose. I guess a 1-color display is not for everybody so probably design an even cheaper/durable/reliable/cpu-performant/batterylasting other rockbox-preloaded player. That would be a dream for me and I guess many others, too.
Anyway you're doing great and there's so many whishes popping up here and I'm eager to see what's coming.
Is it really just a few months ahead?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on August 30, 2016, 03:13:55 AM
Hi turtlepurple,

A12 does play OGG files.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, we are planning to launch the new model in two months if everything goes well. However, we couldn't make any promise.

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: kalo86 on August 30, 2016, 09:37:19 AM
Hi hunterleo,

Can you say what will be the form factor of the new RockBox-compatible audio player, please? Thanks,

kalo86
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: turtlepurple on September 06, 2016, 09:02:47 AM
A12 does play OGG files.

Thats good -  though it's not listed neither on amazon nor agptek.com - anyway now we know :]
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: barbafant on October 05, 2016, 04:13:49 AM
Hi, I'll list my opinions / whishes about what I would like to see in a rockboxable small player.

MOST IMPORTANT are two things:

Must have SD-card slot (but that seems like certainty..?)
microSD is enough, of course full size SD is a fun idea, but I can't see that working in this small form factor. When it comes to capacity, I've used 128 gb cards in my all my sansa clip plus and zip's, so that is my need. I see on your site that the x12 is stated to only accept up to 64 gb, but Sansa said the same about the plus & zip... in reality a FAT formatted 128 has always worked for me. I hope it will on your coming device also.
(yes, I know 128 gb is a lot. I have very wide musical taste, and I also have a few audiobooks on it. If I had a lot of audiobooks, I would be needing a terabyte...)

Make it small
In the same ballpark as the sansa plus & zips. I want to clip my player on the neck of my tshirt, the hem of my shirt etc, to be easily accessible to pause, skip etc. I don't wanna fumble around in my pocket.



MEDIUM IMPORTANCE

Durable hardware for the buttons - outer buttons need to be designed with limits for their movement.
Sansa failed hard here. If one drops the sansa and it lands on it's volume button, the plastic outer button slams into the surface mounted microswitch so hard that it breaks loose completely from it's soldering.
AFAIK the 'normal' (read: non-sansa) way of design is that the outer plastic button 'should' have a "movement limit" in its mounting, like a plastic ridge or something, which stops the outer button from being pushing too hard into the microswitch on the circuit board. As far as I can tell Sansa skipped this, and thus this has become one of the common breakages (google it). I have three devices with this damage. (yes I am a bit clumsy).
 I would gladly have a player that is 5 mm wider, taller and thicker, if it also was more durable. Aftermarket silicon sleeves protects a little, but not so much against this.

Enough hardware buttons
The sansa clip&zip have a good amount. Placement... of course it needs to be usable, but I would say that most placings will be workable in a small player.

FM-radio
I can live without it, after all I used ipods (rockboxed) for a few years. But it is a very good thing to have. I have even used it to record sound from small fm-microphones!


(UNIMPORTANT, LOW PRIORITY)

Clip: the function may be necessary, but it could be done with a sleeve
I definitely need a clip, but I am certain it could be put on a silicon sleeve. Actually I would prefer that. The Sansa clip is pretty easily damaged if the device is dropped. The plastic is so very thin where the axle is fastened. If the clip functionality was in a silicon sleeve instead, it would be easier to replace if broken, and perhaps also would not break so often.
Personally I feel certain I could DIY an ok clip on a silicon sleeve myself, as I have needed to fix broken Sansas....

multi-color screen
For what, album art? On a screen that is 96x96 pixels...? hahahaha, no. :) Ok, opinions may differ, but I think it is silly. I do prefer the Zips screen over the Plus since it is larger, but color is the lowest priority I can imagine. And I remember the Plus duo-tone screen as better in sunlight than the Zip.
           
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JimZipCode on October 05, 2016, 08:09:59 AM
Make it small
In the same ballpark as the sansa plus & zips. I want to clip my player on the neck of my tshirt, the hem of my shirt etc, to be easily accessible to pause, skip etc. I don't wanna fumble around in my pocket.
I think the A12 is a little bigger than the Sansa Clip Zip.  And I think that's good.  It's still small, but substantial enough not to be tiny.
Also, now that I'm 50, the text on the Clip Zip is a little small for me to read easily.  :-)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: [Saint] on October 09, 2016, 04:53:52 PM
I see on your site that the x12 is stated to only accept up to 64 gb, but Sansa said the same about the plus & zip... in reality a FAT formatted 128 has always worked for me. I hope it will on your coming device also.
(yes, I know 128 gb is a lot. I have very wide musical taste, and I also have a few audiobooks on it. If I had a lot of audiobooks, I would be needing a terabyte...)

This type of statement regarding capacity almost always boils down to the naivety of the marketing department, or blind copy of some boilerplate text. There isn't in fact any SD specification that has a 64GB maximum addressable capacity that I'm aware of. SDHC specification can address up to 32GB, and SDXC can address up to 2TB (A density that, without a major advance in technology, we will never reach in an SD or microSD form factor).

When an OEM states that a device "Supports up to N GB", they're almost always simply deploying SDXC specification (because, ...why wouldn't you?) and then listing the largest SD or microSD card capacity available at the time. A few OEMs have clicked on to the absurdity of this, and likely got sick of the repeated questions every time a vendor releases a larger density card, and now list "Supports up to 2TB" in their product information.

If I had to make a guess, I would think that these guys just did a blind copy of some of their older information or their marketing department guy had a stroke. It's the only way I can make sense of it. There's almost never a justifiable reason to artificially limit the maximum external storage capacity.


[Saint]
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on October 10, 2016, 03:18:56 PM
Hi, I'll list my opinions / whishes about what I would like to see in a rockboxable small player.

MOST IMPORTANT are two things:

Must have SD-card slot (but that seems like certainty..?)
microSD is enough, of course full size SD is a fun idea, but I can't see that working in this small form factor. When it comes to capacity, I've used 128 gb cards in my all my sansa clip plus and zip's, so that is my need. I see on your site that the x12 is stated to only accept up to 64 gb, but Sansa said the same about the plus & zip... in reality a FAT formatted 128 has always worked for me. I hope it will on your coming device also.
(yes, I know 128 gb is a lot. I have very wide musical taste, and I also have a few audiobooks on it. If I had a lot of audiobooks, I would be needing a terabyte...)

Make it small
In the same ballpark as the sansa plus & zips. I want to clip my player on the neck of my tshirt, the hem of my shirt etc, to be easily accessible to pause, skip etc. I don't wanna fumble around in my pocket.



MEDIUM IMPORTANCE

Durable hardware for the buttons - outer buttons need to be designed with limits for their movement.
Sansa failed hard here. If one drops the sansa and it lands on it's volume button, the plastic outer button slams into the surface mounted microswitch so hard that it breaks loose completely from it's soldering.
AFAIK the 'normal' (read: non-sansa) way of design is that the outer plastic button 'should' have a "movement limit" in its mounting, like a plastic ridge or something, which stops the outer button from being pushing too hard into the microswitch on the circuit board. As far as I can tell Sansa skipped this, and thus this has become one of the common breakages (google it). I have three devices with this damage. (yes I am a bit clumsy).
 I would gladly have a player that is 5 mm wider, taller and thicker, if it also was more durable. Aftermarket silicon sleeves protects a little, but not so much against this.

Enough hardware buttons
The sansa clip&zip have a good amount. Placement... of course it needs to be usable, but I would say that most placings will be workable in a small player.

FM-radio
I can live without it, after all I used ipods (rockboxed) for a few years. But it is a very good thing to have. I have even used it to record sound from small fm-microphones!


(UNIMPORTANT, LOW PRIORITY)

Clip: the function may be necessary, but it could be done with a sleeve
I definitely need a clip, but I am certain it could be put on a silicon sleeve. Actually I would prefer that. The Sansa clip is pretty easily damaged if the device is dropped. The plastic is so very thin where the axle is fastened. If the clip functionality was in a silicon sleeve instead, it would be easier to replace if broken, and perhaps also would not break so often.
Personally I feel certain I could DIY an ok clip on a silicon sleeve myself, as I have needed to fix broken Sansas....

multi-color screen
For what, album art? On a screen that is 96x96 pixels...? hahahaha, no. :) Ok, opinions may differ, but I think it is silly. I do prefer the Zips screen over the Plus since it is larger, but color is the lowest priority I can imagine. And I remember the Plus duo-tone screen as better in sunlight than the Zip.
           

small and with a clip would be awesome. I like to wear my player outside a pocket or on the strap of a bag to have it accessible all the time. If I had to pull the player out of my pocket every couple of minutes I could just as well use my phone.

Personally, I'd dig a small color screen and I'd even use cover art. 96x96 is too small, though. 128x128 would be nice.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: [Saint] on October 10, 2016, 07:06:15 PM
Album art is something I can take or leave on small factor DAPs.

I realize this is somewhat of an unusual position for someone who has invested so much time and effort into steering the evolution of the Rockbox theme engine and a lot of time into (ab)using it, but it is my position nonetheless. For devices with displays smaller than QQVGA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_display_resolution#QQVGA), I think dedicating a large portion of your (already very minimal) screen real estate to a largely useless static image is a massive waste.

Especially so considering that most of the detail in the image will be lost or discarded by scaling (we use a very fast and efficient scaling algorithm, but even if we used a better, slower, and more computationally intensive scaling method at these resolutions most detail will still be lost) and dithering. This basically guarantees that unless you are already very highly familiar with the album art that you will need to refer to the metadata anyway, because there's no way on Earth you'll be reading the album title or artist information from the cover art unless the glyphs are simple (preferably Latin based alphabet, Chinese/Japanese/Hebrew/etc. and other complex glyphs will get smooshed into glyph oblivion by dithering and scaling), the text takes up a disproportionate amount of the image, uses a clean proportional font, and has a relatively low word and glyph count.

One consideration is that display of album art basically guarantees that unless you use a microscopic font or the metadata word and/or glyph count is extremely low, that the metadata will scroll which is ridiculously distracting.

An obvious "solution" to this is to display album art as a conditional element to be displayed when the player is hardware or software keylocked. I suspect a majority of people don't do this in their themes because I sincerely believe that there's only two or three people (gevaerts, yourself, and myself) capable of writing a theme that will do so cleanly (without draw order artifacts). It also depends on a couple of system settings to make it useful, 'backlight on hold' needs to be set as either 'on' or 'normal', and you would want to have 'first button press enables backlight only' set in the case of 'backlight on hold' being set to 'normal'. This is fairly device specific though, because it depends on the capabilities of the display as to whether or not the backlight can be enabled or disabled independently of the display itself.

Another consideration would be the amount of time any given individual actually spends looking at the display in the first place. I would posit that a majority of people either put on a playlist, or album(s), or shuffle their library and except for the occasional track skip or volume change don't interact with the device again until they stop playback or chose another playlist/album/artist. I would also posit that a majority of people to track skips and volume changes 'blind' and don't actually look at the display at all while they're doing so.


Edit:

I just noticed this
FM-radio
I can live without it, after all I used ipods (rockboxed) for a few years. But it is a very good thing to have. I have even used it to record sound from small fm-microphones!

I guess you are not aware that all of the iPods from the (3G...maybe?) 4G/Color/Photo onwards support FM Radio via the iPod Accessory Protocol? FM support isn't enabled in the iPod builds by accident. It requires additional hardware, sure, but it is definitely a thing that exists and we have had support for it in Rockbox's IAP implementation for an eternity.


[Saint]
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ZincAlloy on October 12, 2016, 02:31:40 PM
Yeah, I know. It's tiny, awkward and you can't see any detail, but seeing the cover is part of the album experience for me, so I use album art even on a 96x96 screen.  ;D
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Nailer on October 16, 2016, 10:23:03 AM
Hi turtlepurple,

A12 does play OGG files.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, we are planning to launch the new model in two months if everything goes well. However, we couldn't make any promise.

Thank you,

Leo



Hey Leo,
I am really interested in your AGPTEK H01 DAP.
And I am probably buy it, but I am wondering because it is hard to know all the necessary details on chips and hardware.
Is it possible and is hardware inside of that DAP capable of handling a rockbox.
If it is possible I would like to try to do a port of it.
Because  you are on forums here i would like to take opportunity to ask you that to save some time and money if I decide to do a port.

Thanks
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on October 30, 2016, 07:24:54 PM
I hope this player isn't canceled and will launch soon. :'(

Any update Leo?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on October 30, 2016, 09:57:49 PM
I hope this player isn't canceled and will launch soon. :'(

Any update Leo?

The hardware part is done. We are fixing some bugs on the software.

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Massa on October 31, 2016, 06:01:38 AM
I just stumbled across this thread.  ;)

Maybe it's a bit late to post hardware wishes - but I'm searching for a new device which is capable to run rockbox on it and could not find anything which meets my requirements;

My requirements seems to be a bit different than the ones which had been posted here...

I'm looking for a device with at least two micro sd card slots (together >= 256GB) and a reasonable big enough (color) display - I usually use WPS screens with bigger album art (and it's IMHO also easier to navigate with bigger display).
The xodoo x3 seems to be a very good device - but the display is only monochrom and I'm not sure if album art is possible on it.
The Xuelin iHifi 770C seems also to be a good device - but it only has one sd card slot and is therefore limited to 128G...

The FiiO X5 II seems to meet my requirements - but I'm not sure if rockbox runs on it - and it's too expensive!

@hunterleo: as far as I undestand you designed a "mini" device which is capable to run rockbox on it?!
Does your company decide to also build a bigger device which would fulfill my requirements?
It should still be "payable" (max. 150 Eur) and good rockbox support is a must!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 01, 2016, 01:28:12 AM
I just stumbled across this thread.  ;)

Maybe it's a bit late to post hardware wishes - but I'm searching for a new device which is capable to run rockbox on it and could not find anything which meets my requirements;

My requirements seems to be a bit different than the ones which had been posted here...

I'm looking for a device with at least two micro sd card slots (together >= 256GB) and a reasonable big enough (color) display - I usually use WPS screens with bigger album art (and it's IMHO also easier to navigate with bigger display).
The xodoo x3 seems to be a very good device - but the display is only monochrom and I'm not sure if album art is possible on it.
The Xuelin iHifi 770C seems also to be a good device - but it only has one sd card slot and is therefore limited to 128G...

The FiiO X5 II seems to meet my requirements - but I'm not sure if rockbox runs on it - and it's too expensive!

@hunterleo: as far as I undestand you designed a "mini" device which is capable to run rockbox on it?!
Does your company decide to also build a bigger device which would fulfill my requirements?
It should still be "payable" (max. 150 Eur) and good rockbox support is a must!

New sd slot supports 2TB. Does it solves your problem?

We will consider your advice for our next new model. Thanks!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on November 01, 2016, 04:57:35 PM
I hope this player isn't canceled and will launch soon. :'(

Any update Leo?

The hardware part is done. We are fixing some bugs on the software.

Thank you,

Leo

I am glad it's that way.Can't wait for it to launch and to see how it looks. :)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: ethanay on November 03, 2016, 04:57:02 PM
@hunterleo Take a look at this thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51546.msg238250.html#msg238250

I think it would make strategic sense for your company to target education institutions for electronics engineering, software design/engineering, and music programs (like a media-specific Raspberry Pi) to specifically meet their needs with purpose-built hardware:

[/li][/list]

While these features are in Rockbox, hardware implementation is really useful to make it easy and practical to have a responsive a-b marker placement or easy access to speed adjustment.

You can integrate this "education focus" into your business model and target mainly educational institutions for their needs and help ensure a stable demand base for  your business model of offering really good, affordable purpose-built portable media player hardware, which would help support the rockbox development as well.


New sd slot supports 2TB. Does it solves your problem?

We will consider your advice for our next new model. Thanks!
[/list]
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: staeff on November 17, 2016, 03:41:36 AM
Hello Leo,

despite the great idea to support rockbox, have you considered creating a consumer android based mp3 player?
As an alternative to smartphones it does not need a large or high res screen, but should be much smaller.
Furthermore, at least in my opinion, it should offer typical control buttons.
The main advantage should wifi support, so that people could download podcasts, audiobooks and music from subscription services like spotify.
Rockbox could still run there as an audio player.

For my personal taste, the current android players are much too large and much to expensive.

(An alternative to android could be Tizen. )
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 18, 2016, 01:06:53 AM
Hello Leo,

despite the great idea to support rockbox, have you considered creating a consumer android based mp3 player?
As an alternative to smartphones it does not need a large or high res screen, but should be much smaller.
Furthermore, at least in my opinion, it should offer typical control buttons.
The main advantage should wifi support, so that people could download podcasts, audiobooks and music from subscription services like spotify.
Rockbox could still run there as an audio player.

For my personal taste, the current android players are much too large and much to expensive.



(An alternative to android could be Tizen. )

Yes, we also are working on a new android one.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: staeff on November 18, 2016, 04:06:32 AM

Yes, we also are working on a new android one.

Great news! Can it also be expected in December?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: phr on November 19, 2016, 02:26:37 AM
Last thing we need is more android players, raspberry pi etc.  Those are large and power hungry.

My wish list:

1) User replaceable battery is #1!!  Products come and go so I'd like to be able to keep the player running for a long time.  It's ok if replacing the battery requires disassembling the player or even soldering some wires, but it should use a standard form factor battery (like in bluetooth headsets) and disassembly should be possible.  The Sansa Fuze is glued together so if you take it apart, it's hard to reassemble.  Actually, using an AAA cell like the Sansa M200 series would be fantastic.

2) reasonably small size, like original Sansa Fuze is fine, Clip series is fine, etc.  Don't need clothing clip.  Don't need super miniaturization.  Don't need color display. 

3) Multi-line display a little larger than Clip/Clip+'s (i.e. like Clip Zip or Fuze) would be nice but not required.

4) Real time clock (player keeps track of current time and date) is important for some applications like TOTP token or alarm.

6) No voice recording, there should not be a microphone anywhere in the device (security issue).

7) Don't need bluetooth and would prefer a version without bluetooth (same as above)

8) Complete source code to all internal software, of course. 

Wow!!!!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 20, 2016, 09:23:37 PM

Yes, we also are working on a new android one.

Great news! Can it also be expected in December?

Android version is much more difficult to develop. We don't have a schedule yet.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: MoeD on November 22, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Hunterleo,

My Sansa Clip just died yesterday and I'm in the market for a new mp3 player.

Should I hold out for the new AGPtEK with Rockbox OS? Will it be days, weeks, or months?

Thanks
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on November 23, 2016, 10:17:15 PM
Hunterleo,

My Sansa Clip just died yesterday and I'm in the market for a new mp3 player.

Should I hold out for the new AGPtEK with Rockbox OS? Will it be days, weeks, or months?

Thanks

I guess it still takes months. The new player with our own OS is under production. You may try it soon.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: nwrob on November 25, 2016, 02:00:14 PM
Hi, do you know what the model number will be and when it will be available?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: uhiYuhi on December 03, 2016, 04:35:02 AM
Hunterleo,

My Sansa Clip just died yesterday and I'm in the market for a new mp3 player.

Should I hold out for the new AGPtEK with Rockbox OS? Will it be days, weeks, or months?

Thanks

I guess it still takes months. The new player with our own OS is under production. You may try it soon.


Waiting for rockboxed player. i will buy it definetely
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on December 09, 2016, 01:21:43 AM
Thanks for waiting. Still got few bugs to fix!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: greatjack on December 10, 2016, 08:23:51 PM
I have used many rockbox players in the past and was reading though this great thread.

It needs some clarification.

@hunterleo

1. How many players are going to be coming out?

2.What will their features be?

3.What will their Model Numbers be?

4. Whats the current estimated time for their arrival on the market?

Also heres the link for the agptek clip https://www.amazon.com/AGPtEK-Bluetooth-Player-Lossless-Supports/product-reviews/B01MG31IBZ/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=recent#RGSL2RX6Y4OAM (https://www.amazon.com/AGPtEK-Bluetooth-Player-Lossless-Supports/product-reviews/B01MG31IBZ/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=recent#RGSL2RX6Y4OAM)

This looks amazing and if we can get this running rockbox with bluetooth, It would be an instant best seller!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: spaceship9876 on December 16, 2016, 09:25:27 AM
Thanks for waiting. Still got few bugs to fix!

You should use a Micro UFS card slot instead of Micro SDXC in the future, there is almost no idle power consumption and much less when reading/writing too. We would have much better battery life if playing audio files from a memory card. Also a usb type-c connector would be nice.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Verythin on December 21, 2016, 08:41:10 AM
Hello,

long time user, first time poster here. This thread has me excited.

Writing all the following here on this forum seems pointless because all you know this. But I will anyway.

I had a Sansa Clip+ for years, it never let me down. It got stolen earlier this year. Bought a used one that I found for a really good price, considering the money they go for these days. That one died a few weeks ago. Been using my phone since but couldn't be more frustrated - the size, the weight, the battery life, the fact that you can't operate it blindly in your pocket.

Am searching around for a decent player but, as you know, there aren't any. Five years ago usable affordable players could be bought everywhere. Nowadays there are either just toys, cheap in every sense of the word - or overly expensive"audiophile" players that certainly aren't better than the Clip+ was.

I found this thread and I can't tell you how happy I'd be if this product really came to life. If you made an affordable player that can do Rockbox you'd have a monopoly on good players, an instant best seller. The market is definitely there, everyone reading this forum would buy one. The number of interested first-time posters in this thread is proof of this.

Development is probably (mostly) done, but for the future, here are the things I'd like to see in a player.

Size:
- size of the Clip+ (although Rockbox is hard to read on that tiny screen…)
- so maybe a bit bigger, but certainly not bigger than the AGPTek A02
- if it is very small it has to have a clip

Hardware:
- MicroSD slot (for Sandisk cards, too, as AGPTek only seems to support Kingston brand cards)
- tough non-scratching screen
- no touch screen! It has to have buttons/keys for blind use in the pocket
- Bluetooth is not required, but wouldn't hurt
- no FM radio (I have no use for it)
- no fancy hi-res color display (fine if it has one, but only if it doesn't alter performance) (and no blinking flashing screen gadgets!)
- durable hardware (I had to solder the phone jack on the Clip+)
- replaceable battery
- no planned obsolence of any kind
- no included headphones - no one uses these cheap phones, so save the resources and save yourself and the customers the expense
- USB 3.0
I'd love a durable, reliable, easy-to-use no-nonsense player with just the bare audio functions and no fancy stuff, which brings us to …

Software:
- playing all file formats, obviously
- no microphone in / recording function - never had the use and accidentally activated this on other players before, creating long useless files, annoying. Everyone has a phone for this.
- no album cover display (I see people want this, I personally have no need)
- no video (same, I would not watch any sort of video on an audio player)
- folder navigation
- folder playback in proper order of songs (why do modern players not do this? I returned an AGPTek because of it, but I read that even the FIIO M3 has problems doing this)
- proper alphabetical listing of folders
- no limit of number of folders
- album repeat
- resume playback where you last stopped
- m3u playlists
- display of umlauts and additional characters: ä, ö, ü, Ä, Ö, Ü, ß
- works with Linux

Rockbox use would be awesome, but if someone could at least make a player these days that comes with a decent, well-designed, user friendly software (like the Clip+), that'd be great.
Like probably most people on here I'd be willing to pay a bit more if I knew I'd get a durable, well made product with great, easy-to-use software - and not a poorly made player that would predictably die in less than two years.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on December 23, 2016, 01:28:48 AM
Thank you guys for the precious opinions!

The new players fixed most of your issues and will be available within 1 month! AGPTEK ROCKER is its name!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Verythin on December 23, 2016, 10:32:43 AM
Awesome news before the Holidays!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JimZipCode on December 29, 2016, 02:50:31 PM
The new players fixed most of your issues and will be available within 1 month! AGPTEK ROCKER is its name!

Can't wait!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: amega on January 05, 2017, 05:14:28 PM
very exited please update us!!!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: yopyop on January 08, 2017, 06:43:53 PM
Some ideas:

-all models rockbox
-use sandisk microsd
-add extra button on front or side
-customizable menus, buttons e.g. can change >>I and I<<  to >> <<
-resist making models obselete with software upgrades / downgrades??
-"resume", and "bookmark resume"
-sane buttons up down left right = up down left right, middle = play/pause
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: elwing on January 15, 2017, 08:06:54 AM
I'm back after a long time, looking for a new rockbox player... only to find out most of the compatible player are obsolete and not in production anymore... your Rocker couldn't happen at a better time for me...
Thanks for that, I'll definitely well be buying one...

also, image and documents starts to appear on the web:
http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15B/
http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15S/
http://images.agptek.us/image/RockerUserManual.pdf
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bennor on January 15, 2017, 08:43:51 AM
also, image and documents starts to appear on the web:
http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15B/
http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15S/
http://images.agptek.us/image/RockerUserManual.pdf
Interesting. Black and Silver colors. Looks a bit boxy and appears to be larger than a Sansa Clip. And no apparent internal memory with support up to 256GB microSD card. And the earphone jack is on the bottom of the unit 40 hour playback with volume at medium and 2 hour charge time. 1.8" LCD screen. Size: 85.6×40.2×10.08mm. Music formats:
AAC/AIF(AIFF)/APPLE Lossless
APE/FLAC/OGG/MP3
/WAVE/WMA/WMA
Lossless M4A/DSF/DSDIFF

(http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15S/MC15S-1.png)

(http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15S/MC15S-4.png)

More details in the PDF.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: spaceship9876 on January 15, 2017, 09:10:16 AM
no opus codec support? opus is supported by rockbox and is patent-free. Will you be releasing the source code for your rockbox port? What chip are you using in it?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: johnb on January 15, 2017, 09:11:32 AM
I doubt this IS running Rockbox today.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bennor on January 16, 2017, 08:00:20 AM
What chip are you using in it?
From one of the picture links posted above apparently it uses a Cirrus Logic CS42L51 (https://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P1088.html) Low-Power Stereo Codec with Headphone Amplifier.

(http://images.agptek.us/image/MC15B/MC15B-3.png)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JimZipCode on January 16, 2017, 01:13:14 PM
Interesting. Black and Silver colors. Looks a bit boxy and appears to be larger than a Sansa Clip. And no apparent internal memory with support up to 256GB microSD card.
About the size of a Sansa Fuze+, maybe.

Uh, if it has no internal memory, where do we put Rockbox?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bennor on January 16, 2017, 04:19:06 PM
Uh, if it has no internal memory, where do we put Rockbox?
Good question. Here is what the User Manual PDF previous linked to states with respect internal memory:

"Please note: The player DO NOT has internal memory.
Before using this player, please prepare a Micro SD card with music files at first."

Specifications
Music formats:  AAC/AIF(AIFF)/APPLE Lossless APE/FLAC/OGG/MP3 /WAVE/WMA/WMA Lossless M4A/DSF/DSDIFF
Screen: 1.8" LCD screen
Size: 85.6×40.2×10.08mm
Capacity: No internal memory, support up to 256 GB micro SD card(SD card not included)
Playing: 40 hours music playing at medium volume by earphone
Charging: 2 hours capacity Built-in 600mAh lithium
SNR: -94DB
Lyric format: LRC
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: __builtin on January 16, 2017, 07:09:45 PM
Rockbox does not require internal storage, per se. As long as a bootloader can (somehow) be flashed, it should be able to boot Rockbox from whatever media is present.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: elwing on January 16, 2017, 11:58:56 PM
I'm pretty sure that the '' no memory inside '' concern space for music...  That's a user manual you're looking at, their os have to be somewhere and i doubt you'll have to unpack their os to your sd card before being able to use the device. Not talking about such memory is a good idea if you want to avoid user confusion...
Now i really hope this will be compatible with rockbox, the lack of apparent information is not too reassuring...
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bennor on January 17, 2017, 02:40:45 PM
Of course we're all just speculating at the moment on the Rocker with the scant information currently available. The no on-board memory for music/file storage is an interesting design choice. My assumption is they did so as a cost savings measure. In any event until there is more specifications and other details we won't know for certain if Rockbox will be run on this device or if it can even be ported to the device. I hope it can run Rockbox but won't be all that surprised if AGPTek makes the design decision to lock down the boot loader or otherwise prevent Rockbox from running on the device..
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: RufusA on January 17, 2017, 05:14:06 PM
This looks to be a very close relative to the Benjie T6. If it is, some further details, photos and impressions of the Benjie variant on the head-fi.org Obscure Chinese Dap thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/720512/obscure-chinese-daps/1980#post_13127383
and
http://www.head-fi.org/t/720512/obscure-chinese-daps/1995#post_13128934

Key headline:
IC = Ingenic X1000

Rufus.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: elwing on January 20, 2017, 05:08:30 AM
https://www.amazon.co.jp/AGPtEK-ROCKER-%E3%83%87%E3%82%B8%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AA%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A4%E3%83%BC-bluetooth4-1-%E3%83%9E%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%83%ADSD%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E6%9C%80%E5%A4%A7256GB%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E5%BF%9C/dp/B01MU7IQBG
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Kal on January 28, 2017, 05:08:26 PM
https://www.amazon.co.jp/AGPtEK-ROCKER-%E3%83%87%E3%82%B8%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AA%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A4%E3%83%BC-bluetooth4-1-%E3%83%9E%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%83%ADSD%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E6%9C%80%E5%A4%A7256GB%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E5%BF%9C/dp/B01MU7IQBG

Nice find! They are probably just waiting on shipping to the states or just enough stock for a big launch.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: fredex on January 28, 2017, 08:01:01 PM
that Amazon.jp link mentions bluetooth.

Does this mean it uses bluetooth phones INSTEAD of a conventional phone jack? the pictures don't show anything like a phone jack.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Kal on January 28, 2017, 10:42:36 PM
that Amazon.jp link mentions bluetooth.

Does this mean it uses bluetooth phones INSTEAD of a conventional phone jack? the pictures don't show anything like a phone jack.

No there's just an added feature.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: elwing on January 29, 2017, 02:57:54 PM
Can't wait for news from hunterleo... It's been a long time since the last news...
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on February 01, 2017, 06:01:53 PM
Me too...

btw. I love the design. ;D
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: uhiYuhi on February 02, 2017, 04:30:03 PM
https://www.amazon.co.jp/AGPtEK-ROCKER-%E3%83%87%E3%82%B8%E3%82%BF%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AA%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A4%E3%83%BC-bluetooth4-1-%E3%83%9E%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E3%83%ADSD%E3%82%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E6%9C%80%E5%A4%A7256GB%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E5%BF%9C/dp/B01NBRJBOH


¥ 6890
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 02, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
Happy Chinese New Year, guys!

I were on a trip in US and finally recovered from the new year holidays!

The AGPTEK rocker released on Amazon US and Japan already, and will be available on Amazon Europe soon!

The very first version was reloaded the OS we developed, which maybe has some unfounded bugs. Welcome any comment here!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Milardo on February 02, 2017, 09:31:53 PM
Hi hunterleo,

                    So how do we know that rockbox can work on this, and also, does anybody know how soon rockbox will work on this?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Mihail Zenkov on February 03, 2017, 05:01:09 AM
The very first version was reloaded the OS we developed, which maybe has some unfounded bugs.

Is your OS based on Rockbox?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: jgcrowder on February 03, 2017, 12:19:29 PM
Here's the link on Amazon US:
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Resolution-Lossless-Audiophile-Supports/dp/B01MZ50M0Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1486141903&sr=8-1&keywords=AGPtEK+ROCKER

Cost is $59.

No, the OS is not based upon Rockbox. Hunterleo previously said they were going to release the product with their own custom OS (like all their other players).  They supposedly designed this player with the minimum hardware that Rockbox needs to run.  I'm assuming one of the active devs now needs to get involved and see how it would be to port Rockbox to it.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: jgcrowder on February 03, 2017, 12:42:21 PM
Also, my main concern for getting Rockbox to work on this player is that I don't think Rockbox supports Bluetooth and that's one of the main features of this player.  If someone gets Rockbox to run, it may be quite a while before all the hooks are developed to control the Bluetooth functionality.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: greatjack on February 03, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
Hi,
@Hunter Leo can you please post all of the data sheets for the components used in the device so we can get a port started.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 03, 2017, 09:59:50 PM
The details of the device data sheet can be viewed here:

http://www.ingenic.com/en/?product/id/9.html
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: kofaz on February 03, 2017, 10:15:20 PM
I'm dissappointed that on the amazon US site, it says battery life is only 10 hours.  The other agptek players all have way, way more battery life.

Is the 10 hour life only for lossless files?

How long would it last, listening to 128kbs files?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 03, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
I'm dissappointed that on the amazon US site, it says battery life is only 10 hours.  The other agptek players all have way, way more battery life.

Is the 10 hour life only for lossless files?

How long would it last, listening to 128kbs files?

Rocker with new CPU consumes much more power than other models. After all, it is the smallest one for the audiophiles. That's the price for the performance and features. For 128kbs file, we have not tested that yet. Maybe 5 hours more.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 03, 2017, 10:43:28 PM
I'm dissappointed that on the amazon US site, it says battery life is only 10 hours.  The other agptek players all have way, way more battery life.

Is the 10 hour life only for lossless files?

How long would it last, listening to 128kbs files?

Rocker with new CPU consumes much more power than other models. After all, it is the smallest one for the audiophiles. That's the price for the performance and features. For 128kbs file, we have not tested that yet. Maybe 5 hours more.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Milardo on February 03, 2017, 11:27:20 PM
Hi, hunterleo,

                      So, can rockbox os work on this player?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 04, 2017, 01:05:22 AM
Hi, hunterleo,

                      So, can rockbox os work on this player?

Theoretically yes, however, rocker hasn't been ported with Rockbox yet.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JimZipCode on February 04, 2017, 01:16:37 AM
I very presumptuously started a New Port thread for this:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51653.msg239041.html#msg239041

It's a cross-post, but I'll repeat the offer here:  if there are any developers interested in digging in to a potential Rockbox port to this device, I would be THRILLED to make a substantive contribution, by buying one or two and shipping it/them to a developer or two.  Rockbox and its developers have given me a ton, and I'd love to give a little bit back – and I'm excited about this device.

Any takers, please PM me.  (Prefer an "official" RB developer: you know with the little yellow box icon next to their name etc.)
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 04, 2017, 01:22:03 AM
Thank you very much for the effort! Jim.

I'm also contacting Rockbox developers and offering samples for them.

Regards,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 04, 2017, 01:27:05 AM
The very first version was reloaded the OS we developed, which maybe has some unfounded bugs.

Is your OS based on Rockbox?

No, we reloaded our own OS.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: elwing on February 04, 2017, 06:31:15 AM
I'll definitely be ordering one as soon as developers here will confirm that a port seems possible... I'm talking about documentation and datasheets availability mostly...  It seems great!
@hunterleo what is your official shop on Amazon?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: S.O.Y. on February 04, 2017, 06:36:40 AM
Will there be any accessories specifically like arm-band belt clip, case etc.? I was looking forward for this player to look similarly to the sansa clip zip but the design of it isn't bad. Will wait, like others, until it is confirmed that rockbox works on it.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on February 04, 2017, 11:04:55 AM
Hi,
@hunterloo: I saw in the log that you were looking for me. I would be happy to port rockbox to the player, assuming we can at least get the documentation for the registers of the X1000 and possibly some info about the chips in the player (but mostly the soc programming manual). I am working on the JZ4760 port currently, I think it shares some features with the X1000 right ? As far as I know, ingenic only released a "datasheet" for the X1000 (google X1000_DS.PDF) but it doesn't contain any usable info.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: pamaury on February 04, 2017, 12:43:56 PM
So after a lot of searching on ingenic FTP, I found the holy grail programming manual:
http://198.13.102.98/bj/ingenic_support/X1000_X1000E_X1500/02_HW/01_Phoenix/Phoenix_V2.0/03Datasheet/X1000_PM_20150918.pdf (http://198.13.102.98/bj/ingenic_support/X1000_X1000E_X1500/02_HW/01_Phoenix/Phoenix_V2.0/03Datasheet/X1000_PM_20150918.pdf)
It don't know if that's the latest version or if you (@hunterloo) have a newer version (did you even get the programming manual from ingenic ?) but that's clearly the good stuff to do the port :) Any info on other hardware parts in the device would still be helpful.

So I will buy the device and do the port unless you can send me a sample to work on ?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 04, 2017, 01:04:38 PM
@hunterleo: it appears your AGPTek Rocker is only a rebranded Benjie BJ-T6: http://www.benjie-tx.com/MP3HiFiPlayer/224.html

I thought you designed the whole player but actually you only customize and rebrand some existing stuff? Can you explain more deeply what are the differences between the Rocker and BJ-T6?

Thank you!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: amega on February 04, 2017, 05:10:03 PM
Hi when will it be available in the UK?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 05, 2017, 08:45:27 PM
@hunterleo: it appears your AGPTek Rocker is only a rebranded Benjie BJ-T6: http://www.benjie-tx.com/MP3HiFiPlayer/224.html

I thought you designed the whole player but actually you only customize and rebrand some existing stuff? Can you explain more deeply what are the differences between the Rocker and BJ-T6?

Thank you!

Bejie assembled the device for us. And we did the design of the appearance and the UI. The UI is different, for benjie version is available in China only.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 05, 2017, 08:47:09 PM
So after a lot of searching on ingenic FTP, I found the holy grail programming manual:
http://198.13.102.98/bj/ingenic_support/X1000_X1000E_X1500/02_HW/01_Phoenix/Phoenix_V2.0/03Datasheet/X1000_PM_20150918.pdf (http://198.13.102.98/bj/ingenic_support/X1000_X1000E_X1500/02_HW/01_Phoenix/Phoenix_V2.0/03Datasheet/X1000_PM_20150918.pdf)
It don't know if that's the latest version or if you (@hunterloo) have a newer version (did you even get the programming manual from ingenic ?) but that's clearly the good stuff to do the port :) Any info on other hardware parts in the device would still be helpful.

So I will buy the device and do the port unless you can send me a sample to work on ?

Sure, I will update any new info for you and send me your address!
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 05, 2017, 08:52:00 PM
I'll definitely be ordering one as soon as developers here will confirm that a port seems possible... I'm talking about documentation and datasheets availability mostly...  It seems great!
@hunterleo what is your official shop on Amazon?

Just search AGPTEK Rocker on Amazon.  Linking Port is our distributor in US and Japan. Thanks.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 05, 2017, 09:35:41 PM
Hi when will it be available in the UK?

It takes about 2 weeks. It's available on Amazon France now.

https://www.amazon.fr/Bluetooth-Lecteur-Musical-ROCKER-Memoire/dp/B01NBRJBOH/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1486348298&sr=1-1&keywords=lecteur+bluetooth+rocker
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: opcon on February 09, 2017, 07:08:24 AM
Is there any way I can order one from Australia?
Amazon US says it can't ship it to Aus.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 10, 2017, 02:01:12 AM
Is there any way I can order one from Australia?
Amazon US says it can't ship it to Aus.

The international shipping might be available for next few months. I couldn't be sure about it.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 10, 2017, 08:41:18 AM
@hunterleo:

Just got my order from amazon.fr

1) I'm surprised the firmware is a beta version (1.01 beta). When I buy any device, I expect it to be shipped with a final version of the firmware. Beta versions should be used for your internal development and testing only. Some manufacturers may sometimes offer a beta firmware to download from their website but that's up to the customer to install it or not. Here I have no choice.

2) You can't just use google translation and then pretend to have a multilingual firmware. The French translation is terrible.
I'm nice, I give you an updated translation for free that you can use in any of your players including this Rocker. It's not perfect but far better than the current one for sure.

Original EN translation -> Original FR translation -> My FR translation

Play Mode -> Mode -> Mode de lecture
Music Scan -> Rechercher musique -> Scan musiques
Update Music Library -> En train de renouveler -> MAJ bibliothèque
Update Finished! -> Mise a jour terminé -> MAJ terminée !
Update X songs! -> X musiques mise a jour -> X musiques mises à jour
Gapless Playback -> Jouer sans fente -> Lecture gapless
Resume -> Reprendre -> Reprise auto.
Powered on Volume -> Volume de allumer -> Volume au démarrage
Customize Volume After Powered on -> Customization pour volume de allumer -> Choix volume au démarrage
Customization -> Customization -> Choix utilisateur
Track balance -> Balance de track -> Balance audio
Display Album cover -> Affichage de album -> Affichage pochette d'album
Display Lyric -> Affichage de lyric -> Affichage paroles
Screen Brightness -> Éclairage De L'écran -> Luminosité
Backlight Timer -> Temps De Extinction De L'écran -> Extinction écran
Automatic Shut-off -> Extinction automatique -> Minuterie d'arrêt
Automatic Shut-off Timer -> Temps Pour l'extinction Automatique -> Durée minuterie d'arrêt
24-Hour Time -> 24-heure -> Horloge 24 heures
Time setting -> Heure -> Réglage heure
Firmware Update -> Renouveller le firmware -> MAJ firmware
About This Player -> Concernant Ce Modèle -> A propos de
Settings -> Réglage -> Réglages
Now playing -> Jouer Maintenant -> Lecture en cours
Folder View -> Les dossiers -> Dossiers
My Favorites -> Mon favori -> Mes favoris
Recent Songs Played -> Les chansons joué récemment -> Chansons jouées récemment
File not Found! -> Fichier Non Trouvé -> Aucun fichier trouvé
File not Found in t... -> Liste non trouvé ! -> Liste non trouvée !
Card inserted -> Carte inséré -> Carte insérée
Card removed -> Carte retiré -> Carte retirée
Updating files, please wait -> Veillez patienter -> Veuillez patienter
Add to Playlist -> Ajouter à playliste -> Ajouter à Playlist
Add to My Favorites -> Ajouter à mon favori -> Ajouter à mes favoris
Back to Now Playing Interface -> Rentrer A l'interface De Musique -> Retour écran de lecture
Remove -> Supprimé -> Supprimer
Home -> Rentrer A HOME (l'interface Principale) -> Écran d'accueil
Bookmark ListsX -> Liste de signet X -> Liste de signets X
Bookmark -> Signet -> Signets
Successfully Added -> AjoutÉ -> Ajouté
Connected Device -> Périphérique connecté -> Périphérique(s) connecté(s)
Available Device -> Périphérique disponible -> Périphérique(s) disponible(s)
Connecting -> Connection -> Connexion
Disconnecting -> Déconnection -> Déconnexion
Card Capacity -> Capacité De La Carte -> Capacité carte
Card Free Capacity -> Capacité Disponible De La Carte -> Capacité carte disponible

3) The language setting should not be translated. It should remain in english ("Language") whatever the selected language so that you can easily find the setting again if you mistakenly selected another language you don't understand at all (for instance Chinese for me)

4) I don't see the point of the Display Album Cover setting. It doesn't display more id3tags when set to Off. Is it just to save battery life or so?

5) I don't understand the Now Playing Screen.
1st line scrolling: [id3tag Artist] [Filename+extension] [sample rate/size] [codec]
2nd line scrolling: [id3tag Album]

So depending on how you usually set your file names, you may get something scrolling like this
Alice Cooper 01 Poison - Alice Cooper.mp3 44,1KHz/16Bits MP3

- In my example you get twice the artist and the file format. That's useless.
I would suggest using [id3tag track title] instead of [filename+extension].
Maybe add a "id3tag ON/OFF" setting for those who prefer filename over id3tags

- You get sample rate and size but not the bitrate which I find interesting too. Maybe add a "Detailed Information" context menu with:
id3tag Track Title
id3tag Artist
id3tag Album
id3tag Genre
id3tag Album Year
Codec
Bitrate
Sample Rate
Bit Depth
File name + extension

6) Settings>"Play Mode" is not properly named and is very confusing. It should be called "Music settings" as it gathers both some playback and sound settings.
"Play Mode" should be used for repeat/shuffle only

EN: Play Mode -> Music settings
FR: Mode de lecteur -> Réglages Musique

7) From the now playing screen, a long press on the "up" button should go back to the Home menu. Short press on the "up" button then select "Home" everytime is boring.

8 ) There shouldn't be a Gapless setting ON/OFF. Your CD player doesn't ask you if you want gapless playback or not. Neither does Rockbox. That's the proper implementation.
Moreover, your user manual entry is broken. It mixes up gapless playback with fade-in/out:

"Gapless Playback:
1) Choose On to turn on fadein(the preset volume decrease gradually to silence) and fadeout(the volume increase
gradually to the preset volume) when going to next/previous song, fast forward or rewind.
2) Choose Off to turn off fade in-out."
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Burrhus on February 10, 2017, 09:07:08 AM
Hi.

Being french myself, and having provided translations here and then to softwares, although I don't have this player, I think the translation you propose, lebellium, is very correct. I endorse you. I'll recommend AGPTek to implement this improved translation. Hunterleo, if you could make the information follow...

I 'm looking forward for RockBox port to this device. If the port keeps the Bluetooth functionalities, I forecast a hit among afficionados  !

Best regards,
Burrhus

Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 11, 2017, 03:07:01 AM
Hi lebellium,

I appreciated your help and we will improve the translations and work on your suggestions. A French fellow translated for us, and I think he doesn't understand DAP terminology as you do.

The 1.01 version is not beta OS version. We did come out some beta version before 1.00, that's why Rocker didn't launch on time) , We fixed a small bug after the 1.00 version and name the new version as 1.01 beta for further test. After the testing, we haven't found any new bug in it. We didn't take "beta" out of it for we still work on adding new feature on Rocker. Sorry for the confusion.

We are still a small company and have many things to learn, but we will keep our promise to work on a better DAP as we said at the beginning of this thread. Little by little, we will make our product better. Thank you for your support.

Best regards,

Leo


Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 11, 2017, 04:06:26 AM
Hi hunterleo,

Thanks for your reply.
If you really work hard on it, I can help further. For instance I can overview the whole FR translation (assuming it's a .txt or .lng file, just send it to me) or before you release a new firmware on your website, you can send it to me so that I check that the translation is OK and depending on my free-time I can also check if I find some bugs.

I used to work with Samsung France and Korea and also helped them with testing and bugs reports on DAPs.

I just did a first battery benchmark last night.
- No EQ
- Low Gain
- Display ON for about 2 minutes
- Volume 20/60 with IEM loaded
- Standard play mode (no shuffle)

It played 130 files:

6 FLAC 16/44 (5%)
1 FLAC 24/96 (1%)
10 MP3 CBR 320k (8%)
50 MP3 VBR V0 (38%)
43 MP3 CBR 192k (33%)
5 MP3 VBR 160k (4%)
9 MP3 CBR 128k (7%)
6 WMA CBR 128k (5%)

=> 9,5 hours

I'll try again tonight. Maybe the battery will be better calibrated and we'll get a better result!

edit: 2nd battery benchmark gives exactly the same result. I was expecting at least 10 hours with MP3 files. That's a bit disappointing.

edit2: My full review with some pictures (in French, not in English) http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&p=481279
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bennor on February 12, 2017, 09:17:23 AM
@lebellium what memory card size/brand are you using? Can you experiment with different brands and size?

And yes the 9.5 hours is a tad disappointing.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 12, 2017, 10:33:59 AM
SanDisk Ultra UHS-I 64GB (https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B010Q588D4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Writing the full review (see my edit of previous post) already took me several hours, not sure I want to spend more time with benchmarking different cards, sorry.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Lirk on February 12, 2017, 11:06:20 AM
Would be good a model with stereo fm tuner and voice recorder.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: CaptainSodaPop on February 15, 2017, 04:21:02 PM
How is rockbox port progressing if anyone got their hands into it? :)

And I hope there's gonna be orders available for the rest of the Europe, not just UK.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JimZipCode on February 15, 2017, 04:36:46 PM
How is rockbox port progressing if anyone got their hands into it? :)

The thread is here:
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,51653.0.html

And the short answer is, no developer has one yet.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 16, 2017, 02:24:18 PM
And the short answer is, no developer has one yet.
pamaury and wodz got it.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JimZipCode on February 16, 2017, 03:32:52 PM
pamaury and wodz got it.

Oh, sweet!  Good.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: JoeBattams on February 17, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Now on Amazon.co.uk- £69 though!! :( Must be rubbish exchange rate at moment :( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-ROCKER-Portable-Resolution-Lossless/dp/B01NBRJBOH/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487335538&sr=8-2&keywords=agptek+rocker
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: gomezz on February 17, 2017, 05:20:36 PM
No good for me.  I need a separate physical Play/Pause button that can be found and operated by feel alone.  :(

Or is the Play/Pause button the big one in the middle?
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 18, 2017, 02:16:17 AM
It's the big one in the middle.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on February 21, 2017, 01:57:02 AM
@lebellium

Hi, did you receive my PM regarding the translation?

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: lebellium on February 21, 2017, 02:04:42 AM
Hi,
No I didn't receive any PM :/

If you sent it just before the forums went down, maybe it got lost.

Alternatively you can email me. My nickname @hotmail.com
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: Kal on February 27, 2017, 01:12:45 PM
What ever happened to AGPtek using Rockbox for their firmware? That was 80% of my reason for purchasing this device.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: MoeD on February 27, 2017, 01:15:53 PM
What ever happened to AGPtek using Rockbox for their firmware? That was 80% of my reason for purchasing this device.

Same here. At the same time, the RB developers are saying that RB should work on the Rocker, so I look forward to that.

Am pretty disappointed that the Rocker doesn't have Radio and Recording. I hope that's added in the near future to this or another RB compatible model.
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: elwing on February 27, 2017, 04:18:53 PM
You can follow the progress on IRC... So far they successfully ran some software on the device and used the screen, we are far from a port, but it seems possible from what they say
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bvrulez on March 22, 2017, 03:17:12 PM
Hello, I bought a AGPTEK device (A02) and then found out about Rockbox and read this interesting thread from the start.

If the developer hunterleo is still around I want to suggest something. The SHUFFLE from apple (2012) is a really awesome device because it reduces complexity. I like having a hardware device for each purpose. The SHUFFLE's purpose is to shuffle and nothing else (it actually also has a physical switch to play in order, which is nice.).

Here is a link to the 2012 model, to which I refer because of it's size and solid clip: https://www.amazon.de/Apple-iPod-Shuffle-Modell-2012-blau/dp/B009A6BTSC

Most importantly, it does not have a display, which is GOOD for battery life!

It would be really awesome to have an upgraded version of the apple SHUFFLE. This would need to be included:

- No internal storage memory
- SD card slot (this is the most important part since the original SHUFFLE supports just 2GB)
- Large battery (playtime 100h+)
- Strong clip for putting it on clothes
- On/Off hardware switch like the Apple Shuffle
- Volume buttons
- Back/Forth button
- maybe PAUSE button

Nothing else. No display.

This device should by default RESUME to play from the track/time it was playing at when it was shut down by the physical OFF switch.

If all songs on the device have been played once by shuffling, then the shuffling should start again from 0 but with a different shuffling order, of course.

I would pay 30 euros for such a device, even more, if it would support really large SD cards later on.

Thanks a lot for keeping MP3-players alive! There are a lot of good old things out there (e.g. Logitech Squeezebox), I like having around for much longer, even if everyone wants a "touchscreen". Touchscreens make life complex and non-haptic. Let's go back to actual pressing a button, and having one button for each purpose!

Cheers from Germany to Brooklyn, or wherever you are!
Ben
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on March 22, 2017, 10:24:15 PM
Hi Ben,

We have a similar product as AGPTEK G02. And we have AGPTEK R2 which has card slot. Please check it out. And let me know what you think of them.

https://www.amazon.de/AGPTek-G02-Player-Unabhängige-Tragbare/dp/B016ZZFWOC

https://www.amazon.de/Player-Tragbare-AGPtek-R2-Schwarz/dp/B01M8KRR3U/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1490239586&sr=8-20&keywords=mp3+player

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bvrulez on March 24, 2017, 03:30:01 AM
Hi Leo,

thanks for the fast reply! It is strange that I did not find these two over Amazon. They never came up while I was browsing all the other players that were recommended. I would have checked them since they are AGPTek. Below are my thoughts.

G02:

- It is just 8GB. My collection is 90GB. I would have to sort out a lot, which is a lot of work. I could imagine having a shuffle with just electronica and one for, say, Rap. But even then I would have to leave out things. This is a no go. I want all my stuff on it and shuffle through it through the years. :)
- No data on battery time. People on Amazon say it's less than 2 hours.
- Shuffle algorithm does not work properly, according to a lot of reviews. I can relate to that problem. Some devices just don't have a real shuffle algorithm, meaning tracks get repeated a lot, some tracks don't get played at all and the overall track order seems to be kind of "similar" every time, even if it is not actually the same. So I can imagine this is the case here, also. That's why I said the suffling must make sure to play each song once and then start (in different order) from scratch.
- Looks like there are two buttons, but none of them for on/off. One review on Amazon says that the device switches on accidentally in the pocket if not used. Since there is no physical button I can imagine this is the case.
- I don't like the blue colour. :)

R2:

- 20h battery time. This is better, but it could and should be way more.
- I did not find anything in the reviews on shuffle function.
- Even if there is a shuffle function it probably would not work as I would wish it to. Shuffle should be standard on power on and shuffle status should be saved on power off without having to press a certain menu option. It should work with one button.

As a summary, I would not buy the G02 because it has too many flaws.

I also would not buy the R2, because it is not a dedicated shuffle player. Even if it might have a shuffle function it brings no advantage over the A02 I already own, besides the clip.

The main advantage of a dedicated shuffle player over the G02 should be:

- Awesome battery life. Make it 30gramms, like the A01 but without display. Put as much akku in as possible. People will love it to not be forced to charge it. They just cannot imagine it beeing like this now that's why they don't articulate the need for it, I guess.
- Is the radio really necessary? You need an extra button for this - which would be better off as a on/off-button.
- Working shuffle algorithm.
- I understand that the SD card slot makes a sports device vulnerable to liquids. Maybe there could be a 32GB internal storage, or even an 64GB version.
- Does Apple have a patent on the charging over 3,5 jack? Because that's an awesome thing - it reduces the size.


I would buy a high class shuffle player at a high price! People buy this 2GB Apple Shuffle for 60 Euros. I bet you could make a similar one, from aluminium, with 32GB memory, sell it for 50 bucks and make a profit.

Cheers,
Ben



Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on March 25, 2017, 03:07:50 AM
Hi Ben,

Thanks for your amazing comments.

G02's battery life is about 8-10 hours. G02 has a 16GB version which has a better battery life of 20 hours. However, it seems not very popular for it costs 5 euros more. I guess it is hard to manage large quantities of files if it doesn't have a screen. 8GB is good enough for most of people.

We will run some tests for the shuffle algorithm.

We also work on a new version of G02 which has card slot with a cover on it and on/off switch and lock feature.

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: bvrulez on March 25, 2017, 05:54:23 PM
Hi Leo,

this player also never comes up if I search for mp3 players on amazon. I like the black color!

https://www.amazon.de/AGPTek-Player-Austauschmodell-Tragbare-Schwarz/dp/B01DLV8I80/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490481818&sr=8-1&keywords=g02+16gb

People claim it crashes a lot and customer support was bad. I don't think it's a matter of price. This player is just unstable, it seems.

I will wait for the updated version. Would be awesome if it would be made from alumium, since the clip from plastic does not feel very safe.

If you need any form of support in Germany write me a personal note.

Have a nice weekend!

Cheers,
Ben
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: hunterleo on March 26, 2017, 10:07:22 PM
Hi Ben,

PM me your email address. I'd like to send some products for you to get some opinion.

Thank you,

Leo
Title: Re: work on best low cost mp3 player for rockbox
Post by: progmars on April 20, 2017, 05:37:51 AM
Thank you, AGPTek, hunterleo and all the Rockbox team for reviving affordable MP3 players.

For me personally, an alternative to Sansa Clip+ and with full Rockbox support would be awesome. I don't need "audiophile" features but FM radio and voice recording are really useful for me because when I take long walks after working day, I like to listen to some local radio shows, and sometimes an interesting idea or a problem solution comes to my mind and I want to record it. Most people could do that with their smartphones but I don't take my bulky and somewhat expensive phone with me when I'm walking because, well, it's evening and I might get robbed, especially if someone notices me fiddling with a smartphone on a lonely street.

I really enjoy Rockbox ability to be controlled without using a screen after applying TTS engine texts, and now it talks to me without taking it out of my pocket, which is awesome. I'm not sure how would I achieve the same thing on my smartphone or any other DAP without Rockbox.

Screen quality is not important at all, but general build quality is - it has to survive for at least some years.

So, in summary, I hope AGPTek one day will launch a fully Rockbox compatible all-in-one budget DAP with FM radio and voice recorder - essentially, a clone of Clip+ functionality for similar price.