Rockbox Technical Forums
Support and General Use => Recording => Topic started by: Davide-NYC on October 24, 2006, 08:57:18 PM
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Mike's Big Recording Patch will have Samplerates included for the Coldfire Targets (iRiver and iAudio). Because some of the settings are encoder type dependant I believe a recording menu overhaul is required.
Essentially, all codec indipendant settings should have their own root menu, and all codec dependant settings should be nested in a "Format Settings" menu.
The best thing would be nested menus with a "selected" indicator of some sort in conjunction with the usual "selecting" line indicator (be it the little "Pointer" triangle or the "Bar" Inverse selector).
If an encoder was selected that contains a nested menu a short Navi (select) would select the encoder type and Long Navi (select) would expand the menu showing the nested sub-menus. The "+" sign indicates whether or it is not a "leaf" menu.
Example:
Upon Entering the Recording Settings Menu you would see the following:
- Format Settings
> + MP3
+ WavPack
+ PCM Wav
Long Navi (select) Press ->
- Format Settings
> - MP3
Bitrate
Frequency
+ WavPack
+ PCM Wav
Down ->
- Format Settings
> - MP3
Bitrate
Frequency
+ WavPack
+ PCM Wav
Navi (select) a.k.a. "act upon" takes you to the bitrate menu which is as it is now. Same for Frequency or any other Encoder Dependant attribute. This way should an encoding format require more or less menus the sub-list will just expand or contract. For example in WAV there would be no "Bitrate" menu.
Making a change or backing out takes you back to the nested sub menu screen.
It would be very elegant to have the settings displayed on the same line as the encoder even if the sub-menus were not displayed for example:
- Format Settings
> + MP3 128kbps / 44kHz
+ WavPack
+ PCM Wav
But the bestest thing ever would be to have input dependant persistent configs!
My example config would be:
- Select Mic and get MP3/128kBps/11kHz/Mono
- Select Line-In and get WAV/44kHz/Stereo
- Select FM Radio and get MP3/256kBps/44kHz/Stereo
Unless you specifically change them.
Ooo... I like that idea. Change your input and your settings change with it until you specifically change them and then Rockbox remembers your recording settings for the next time you chose that particular input. Sweetness!
What say y'all? Does this make any sense?
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I disagree with the weird, inconsistent "hold button to expand" menus that you can't find anywhere else in Rockbox's intuitive, easy, no-manual-required system of submenus and settings. Why can't you do the same thing in Rockbox style, with submenus rather than this weird system? It's a bit cool but I can guarantee that 80% of users will need to read a manual before figuring it out.
You want an explanation, so...
* Source Encoder Preferences
--> Mic
----> [MP3/WAV/WAVPACK]
--> Line In
----> [MP3/WAV/WAVPACK]
--> Digital
----> [MP3/WAV/WAVPACK]
* Format Settings
--> MP3
----> Bitrate
----> Frequency
--> WAV
----> Bitrate
----> Frequency
--> Wavpack
----> Bitrate
----> Frequency
It seems like you want source-specific encoder settings as well, so simply multiply the above Format Settings by three, one instance per each Mic, Line and Digital.
Stepping back and looking at this, it's a pretty long and overcomplicated system. So my question is - do you REALLY need freq/bitrate based upon encoder based upon source? It's really too much dependence IMO - not only to the point of being almost annoying and overcomplicated, but large codewise as well. I don't see a huge demand for having tons of nested preferences on a per-codec-per-source basis (it takes under half a minute to get things set up how you want them with no dependence).. but linuxstb suggested having this interdependence as a config-only option which is a nice idea if it's really important.
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I think that this is better:
->Source
[line/mic/digital]
->Format
[MP3/Wavpack/Wav]
->Bitrate
[blah]
->Frequency
[Moreblah]
Have the bitrate menu and frequency menu dependent upon whatever the format is. If you change format they reset to sane defaults (128kbps 44.1khz MP3 for example). If you change sources, it sets all the settings to what you last used for that source. Fairly straightforward, no really complex menus or awkwardness.
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Well I'm not sure...
We do have gain settings that are saved separately for mic and line-in (but that is not very intuitive as there is no indication to the user that this is so, and switching source means gain settings change)
So I can imagine wanting separate encoding settings. If I use the build-in mic, I'd use mp3 (mic quality is bad), but for line-in I always use lossless. So being able to attach this to the source selection is nice. I even think that original firmware does this too.
The problem is: how to visualize this to the user.
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The problem is: how to visualize this to the user.
A solution that comes to my mind would be to show a splash with the current encoder settings when changing the source.
Something like "Int. Mic.: Mp3 / 128kbps / 44.1kHz"
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I agree with Llorean. I think that the configuration should be kept simple.
You can simply switch the settings suggested by Davide-NYC by selecting a configuration file which is a more general approach.
I would "just" like to see extended support for configuration files:
* Easier possibility to create a configuration file with just some parameters.
Now you have to open the file in an editor and erase the unwanted lines. The easier approach could be accomplished by
a) creating a "differential" configuration file:
1. Mark a reference configuration.
2. Make changes of the configuration.
3. Save just the changes since marking the reference configuration.
b) editing an existing configuration file:
1. Open a configuration file.
2. Make changes of the configuration.
3. Save just the changes since opening the file and the unchanged parameters from the original file.
EDIT: c) optionally editing an existing configuration file using a configuration editor plug-in.
a) and b) could possibly be also implemented using a plug-in.
* Sort the configuration files into sub-directories (i.e. recording, sound settings etc.)
* Make the configuration files accessible from the specific menus like Recording, Sound Settings etc. as "presets". EDIT: Like it is done for equalizer presets and the WPS selection already.
* Cache (some of) the configuration files into the RAM so they can be switched more quickly.
Optionally for different approaches:
* Add actions to the configuration files. For example: entering a specific screen (recording, radio etc.), starting some action (record, playback...) EDIT: The actions would be performed when loading the configuration file.
EDIT:
* Later there could be a timer (already partially implemented by Mmmm) which would load such a configuration file with an action. For example: play a certain radio preset and start recording.
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The problem is: how to visualize this to the user.
A solution that comes to my mind would be to show a splash with the current encoder settings when changing the source.
Something like "Int. Mic.: Mp3 / 128kbps / 44.1kHz"
There is genius here.
OK what about the following:
The statusbar must change to the "recording statusbar" immediately upon entering either the WRS or the Recording Settings Menu. That way Type, Bitrate, Samplerate and Channels are already displayed. Currently the Statusbar changes only once the WRS has been entered and even then if you make changes from the Recording Settings Menu they don't always reflect in the statusbar immediately.
That leaves only Source.
Using Lloreans and MikeS's method (this is how Mike's patch is setup already) How about adding a line at the top of the screen showing the current config. This line should change immediately upon any setting change.
We could combine this with Source dependent (inherited) settings.
| MIC-IN --> MP3 / 160kbps / 22.05kHz / Mono |
Source
Format
Bitrate
Frequency
...
So if the user changes the source the encoder settings will change to whatever was last selected for that source! As long as it's clearly displayed across the top line it should be clear to the user what is happening.
Example: switching from MIC to LINE would give (for example)
| LINE-IN --> WAV / ----- / 44.1kHz / Stereo |
Source
Format
Bitrate
Frequency
...
This maybe satisfies the most? Discuss!
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We *could* also nest the menu's like so:
| source --> type / BR / SR / channels |
Source
Format
Other
which if "expanded" would (currently) become:
| source --> type / BR / SR / channels |
Source
Microphone
Line-In
SPDIF
FM Radio
Format
Type/Encoder
Bit Rate
Sample Rate
Channels
Other
File Split Options
Prerecord Time
Create New Files Immediately
Directory
Show Recording Screen on Startup
Clipping Light
Automatic Gain Control
AGC clip time
In every screen the "current recording config" would be displayed on the first line.
The idea here is that most people (even me) almost never "fiddle" with the stuff in the OTHER folder. I figure out what the options do, set them, and forget them.
My usage may be different from other peoples, but I think that if the settings could be source dependent it would be great. Including AGC. (!) (?)
Hmm. I guess inherited AGC settings aren't necessary since you can see and change them on the fly from the WRS.
Discusss!!!!!
Maybe AGC should have it's own root menu?
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I can't seem to find this answer using search, but here goes. Is it possible to have anyone that has compiled a build for the H10 with recording AND/OR tuner function patched for use? I realise it's not 'enabled/supported' but i am a debugger for various programs and am currantly bored, and just want to mess with something new, and would LOVE to try it out.
I promise i won't ask for any support other then just to mess around with things. I just don't want to mess around with patching one myself, as i did read how to do it, but don't want to put linux on my system to do this. And i'm not aware of any other methods using xp to do this. The other truth is i'm slightly lazy when it comes to compiling programs, to be more honest.
Could anyone possibly help me out here? Please? Thanks in advance.
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What the hell does this have to do with the topic / subject of this thread? >:(
I can't seem to find this answer using search, but here goes. Is it possible to have anyone that has compiled a build for the H10 with recording AND/OR tuner function patched for use? I realise it's not 'enabled/supported' but i am a debugger for various programs and am currantly bored, and just want to mess with something new, and would LOVE to try it out.
I promise i won't ask for any support other then just to mess around with things. I just don't want to mess around with patching one myself, as i did read how to do it, but don't want to put linux on my system to do this. And i'm not aware of any other methods using xp to do this. The other truth is i'm slightly lazy when it comes to compiling programs, to be more honest.
Could anyone possibly help me out here? Please? Thanks in advance.
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Simple. A lot of people reading this post RELATING to the 'RECORDING' section of Rockbox i was thinking may have a compiled version with the recording patch, therefore, possible be able to help me out and send it to me. Pretty simple thought. That's why i asked politely. Sorry it bothered you if i missread the post. (as quoted by steve martin from the earlier days) "Well, excuuuuuuuuse MEEEEE!!!" Anyway, if this is that far off the topic (I just thought it was related, as it made sense to me of the direction i was going.), sorry to bother you guys. I was hoping for some guidence and assistance. I guess i'll look elsewhere in my journeys. Later guys.
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Sorry, my reaction was harsh. Just post a new thread on the Recording section. Someone will hook you up. I'm not sure a recording patch exists for the H10 though. The patch mentioned here is for coldfire targets only.
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Ahhhh, gotcha. That sucks. Thats the only thing keeping me from switching back and forth from the factory firmware, otherwise i love Rockbox. How awesome!!!
Thanks again, i'll try posting a new one anyway and see if i get lucky. L8er.
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So MikeS has committed the massive recording patch. It's been in CVS for a few days.
I have not yet had time to fully test it but will very soon.
The question posed in this thread remains valid:
Do we like the 'recording menu' as-is?
Do we want to maybe next some of it to better organize it?
Discuss!
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*snip*
Do we like the 'recording menu' as-is?
Do we want to maybe next some of it to better organize it?
Discuss!
I love the patch but agree that the menu structure should be optimized, Davide's suggestions seem cool to me - I will ponder it some more. I especially like the idea of the current settings being always visible.
Also slightly OT but the equalizer menu structure is not very ergonmically laid out. A friend of mine and I just got a build environment setup and succesfully compiled our first build (CVS from 12/23 + the REP) and are going to start hacking on a few things, the EQ menu structure is part of that. We'll ponder the Recording menu then as well - perhaps some of that this long weekend.