Rockbox Technical Forums

Rockbox General => Rockbox General Discussion => Topic started by: Elias_Maluco on April 08, 2008, 12:54:30 PM

Title: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: Elias_Maluco on April 08, 2008, 12:54:30 PM
I have rockbox installed on my iPod Video 30gb 5.5G for a few days, and I noticed that sometimes (several times, actually), it will just not turn on. It is turned off, I press a button, it should turn on, but it just doenst (nothing appears on the screen, no error, no apple, no sound).. Then I have to try the reset procedure a few times until it actually works, and then it turns on and boots into rockbox as normal.

Any clue on what can be going on here? Is a new iPod, by the way.

Title: iPod won\\\\\\
Post by: Chronon on April 08, 2008, 01:54:23 PM
I believe that is a bug in Apple's bootloader code.  The player appears to hang at startup before any Rockbox code gets executed and seems to just be off and unresponsive to key presses.  A hard reset usually allows it to boot normally.  I don't know why it only hangs like this sometimes.  It would be nice if we could get to the point of understanding the hardware enough to replace Apple's bootloader with our own.  Presumably, that would prevent this sort of behavior.
Title: iPod won\\\\\\
Post by: Elias_Maluco on April 08, 2008, 01:56:02 PM
I see. Do you think that using IPL instead of the official rockbox loader would change anything?
Title: iPod won\\\\\\
Post by: Chronon on April 08, 2008, 03:26:04 PM
If it's what I suggested in the previous post then it doesn't seem that that would make a difference.  I have seen some claims that it happens less in iPL, but I don't tend to place much trust in such claims without some statistics to back it up.  I just don't see how code that runs after Apple's code would affect the functioning of their bootloader.

Another alternative is that it might be hanging at shutdown.  I recall this happening on my Gigabeat about a year ago, though I don't remember the circumstances that caused it to happen.  This also required a hard reset (for the Gigabeat this means disconnecting then reconnecting the battery via the switch at the bottom of the player).

However, the existence of this behavior on even unmodified iPods makes me doubt that this would be the sole reason.  Of course anything you can do to track down what affects this behavior would be helpful.  Unfortunately I don't have any quick fixes for this.  This problem is endemic to the iPods.
Title: iPod won\\\\\\
Post by: Elias_Maluco on April 08, 2008, 04:10:15 PM
Good to know Im not the only one with this problem. At the other hand, that also means that there is no solution for this, which suks. I will try the IPL anyway. I actually had installed it right after I installed rockbox, but I dint get it to show rockbox on the list, so I uninstalled. Now Ive read some tips here and I will try again. Thanks for your awnsers anyway.
Title: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: vamsimohan_6 on April 09, 2008, 10:51:00 AM
I have recently started using rockbox for my ipod 30g video. Its great but occasionally it doesn't turn on and i have to hold the center button and menu button for a while to turn it on. Is there any problem with the installation or the boot loader?


------
*Chronon: fixed typo in the title.
Title: Re: Need to rest ipod to turn on????????
Post by: Elias_Maluco on April 09, 2008, 11:26:31 AM
EDIT: By the way: have you used the original firmware for a long time before switching to rockbox? If you did, the problem started only after you installed rockbox or it had happened before?



*Chronon edited this post to remove the (now) extraneous reference to another thread.
Title: Re: Need to rest ipod to turn on????????
Post by: Chronon on April 09, 2008, 01:25:04 PM
Please note that the Apple firmware does not shut down the hardware so this behavior can be much harder to notice.  Rockbox doesn't have a sleep function so each time it is shut down there's a chance of this hang happening.  You will tend to notice it a lot more with Rockbox because the hardware gets shut down much more frequently.  This is my current hypothesis to explain this behavior.  
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: Elias_Maluco on April 09, 2008, 02:08:00 PM
Hmm. So, there is any way (using a patch, or a plugin, or something) to make rockbox go in sleep mode instead of shutting down every time? I guess that would pretty much solve our problem.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: Chronon on April 09, 2008, 02:20:17 PM
Yes, a sleep function should allow you to avoid this behavior in the same way that Apple's firmware does.  In principle it's possible.  But no one has done it yet and I don't know what the impediments are to implementing that. 

*Edit:  I merged the two topics and edited a post.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: vamsimohan_6 on April 11, 2008, 04:28:26 AM
thanks a lot chronon. That was exactly what i needed to know. That isn't much of a problem but just wanted to know if it could be corrected. thanks a lot
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: nicks23 on April 11, 2008, 05:35:36 AM
Elias_Maluco

I do have the same problem with you with my 80GB ipod Video 5.5 Gen. and i posted before on this forum about it to get some help. I sent it for repair in Greece to "Rainbow" company (Authorized Apple Dealers) because i thought it was a hardware problem but hey said there was nothing wrong with it.

The only think i could say that i noticed is that sometimes some daily builts may cause the ipod not to start up normally so i'm not updating my ipod so often now as i did before. The reason im saying this is because once when i updated my ipod i noticed that everytime i was tring to turn it on i was always have to reboot it. Then i put back a previews built and it was turning on ok.

But dont take this for granded though because it might not be the real reason. Only the rockbox experts can give us an answer. What happened to me it may was just a matter of luck. I hope this could be solved one day and i dont think you should worry about your ipod because reboot it everytime i dont think you could cause it a damage.
 ;)
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: GodEater on April 11, 2008, 10:46:30 AM
As has been repeatedly stated on these forums, whenever it's brought up - this is not a Rockbox issue. It's an issue with the apple bootloader which runs before any of the Rockbox code runs.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: DancemasterGlenn on April 13, 2008, 02:30:43 AM
I haven't seen the other threads related to this, but I just thought I would mention something no one else seems to have mentioned... whenever my ipod won't start up, something does in fact flash on the screen for the smallest fraction of a second. I still to this day am not exactly sure what it is, but I know that it's not backlit, it's smallish (about the size of the fallback do not disconnect icon that shows up when plugged in through rockbox), and it's dark grey (probably similar to the fallback charging screen in color, but not backlit). I've always thought it looked like a battery or something, but that might be my mind playing tricks on me. Someone with a camera or sharper eyes than me might be able to find out what it is.

That's of course assuming that knowing what the picture was would help shed any light on this situation.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: robin0800 on April 13, 2008, 02:45:40 AM
Quote
whenever my ipod won't start up, something does in fact flash on the screen for the smallest fraction of a second.

Its the apple low battery warning you are seeing.
A second bug in the apple bootloader as it can appear even when the ipods fully charged.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: DancemasterGlenn on April 13, 2008, 02:48:29 AM
Damn. I knew it looked like a battery.

So is that the bug everyone is having? The ipod just thinks the battery is low? Or are the other people in this thread really not seeing that flash on their screens when they try to start up? Just want to be sure there are actually two separate problems, and not just the one.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: robin0800 on April 13, 2008, 03:59:51 AM
Quote
Just want to be sure there are actually two separate problems

Yes two at least, the battery being seen is the second one.
The first is the one described in earlier posts the player does not start up by pressing select or menu, a hard reset is then needed.
this is seen more often IMHO.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: DancemasterGlenn on April 13, 2008, 04:02:50 AM
Gotcha. I was confused, since the battery problem seems to require a hard reset to return to normal as well on my end.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: robin0800 on April 13, 2008, 04:08:16 AM
Quote
since the battery problem seems to require a hard reset to return to normal as well on my end

Yes but in the first problem you don't see anything the player appears dead!
Then you also have to do a hard reset.

Same solution for the two problems.
Dont get me started on the promblems with the hard reset.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: DancemasterGlenn on April 13, 2008, 04:22:01 AM
Haha, alright. Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: Elias_Maluco on April 16, 2008, 12:14:01 PM
Dont get me started on the promblems with the hard reset.

What problems, may I ask?
Title: Re: Need to reset ipod to turn on????????
Post by: robin0800 on April 16, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Quote
What problems, may I ask?
Dosen't always work first time and can take much longer than apple states.