Rockbox Technical Forums

Rockbox General => Announcements => Topic started by: Llorean on August 31, 2007, 11:00:00 AM

Title: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on August 31, 2007, 11:00:00 AM
In the WPS on the Gigabeat, the duties of "Select"and "A" have changed. You now pause playback with the "A" button, and leave the WPS without stopping playback with the "Select" button.

This allows an increase in the ability to use the player with just the cross on the front (one-thumb) as well as bringing the keymap into line with other Rockbox players that have similar input options.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: LambdaCalculus on August 31, 2007, 11:10:13 AM
Very good information to have on hand in case anyone ever asks. Thanks for the heads-up, Llorean.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Soader03 on August 31, 2007, 04:48:33 PM
This change applies too in plugins?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: pixelma on August 31, 2007, 04:56:49 PM
Did you read the first post?

In the WPS on the Gigabeat...
That seems to exclude plugins from that change, I would say, because when you are running a plugin you are not in the While Playing Screen... ;)
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: mannequin on August 31, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
:-\

would've been better to have it as a settings option but oh well. i know it brings the keymap into line with other rockbox players but it's just not the "best" keymap for this particular device, imho.


Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on August 31, 2007, 06:56:12 PM
Then it's not the best keymap for the H100 or H300 series either, since they work in the same way. You're used to the retail firmware, spend two months getting used to this, then come back and tell me why not being able to navigate with just your thumb is better than having that option, with objective reasons beyond simply "I like the other way better."
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: bascule on September 01, 2007, 12:44:00 PM
Absolutely, I'm with this one... makes it the same as my H120; much better.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Phalangees on September 01, 2007, 02:10:04 PM
I'm not sure if I'll like it or not but I'll take the time to see if I can get used to it... and if I can't I'll just go edit the code for myself.

Thanks for the notice.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: AlexP on September 01, 2007, 03:56:45 PM
I'm all for for this one too (for obvious reasons).
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: LambdaCalculus on September 01, 2007, 03:58:36 PM
If my next DAP ends up being a Gigabeat, then I'm cool with this change, too. I can rapidly adapt to the control scheme.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: AlexP on September 01, 2007, 04:01:57 PM
If my next DAP ends up being a Gigabeat, then I'm cool with this change, too. I can rapidly adapt to the control scheme.

You don't need to, it is now the same as H100, H300, iPod...

It was different before.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: LambdaCalculus on September 01, 2007, 04:06:21 PM
Actually, I should've said "I would feel comfortable with the control scheme." :P
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Phalangees on September 02, 2007, 09:43:11 AM
Will holding select still come up with the quick menu where you can look at the playlist and all that stuff? Or will you have to hold 'A' now?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on September 02, 2007, 09:47:08 AM
The only change is the short press of those keys. Long press of select should still bring up the context menu, yes.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Phalangees on September 02, 2007, 11:10:11 AM
The only change is the short press of those keys. Long press of select should still bring up the context menu, yes.

Perfect, I think I'll like this change.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on September 02, 2007, 01:13:56 PM
I honestly expect the majority will like this change, and think that even the people who don't think they will now will find it a bit more useful in time.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: sammage on September 03, 2007, 02:48:48 PM
Took me a few presses of the A button to get used to it, but now I really like the change, reminds me of Rockbox on my old H120.   ;D
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: mannequin on September 08, 2007, 12:53:48 PM
trying to adjust to the change i found out there's no way to return to the wps using just the cross once you left it.

maybe it would make sensce to set it up this way: while in wps, "select" takes you to the files view. then, "left" takes you further up, to the folders view; pressing "select" again" plays the chosen file and pressing "right" (it performs the same "select" as of now) takes you back to the wps.

what do you think?

Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: AlexP on September 08, 2007, 02:03:47 PM
Left to main menu, select currently playing.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on September 08, 2007, 06:40:32 PM
As BigBambi pointed out, just press left until you reach the main menu and select the now playing option. If there wasn't some way to enter the menu system, I wouldn't have said it allows nearly the full functionality with just the cross. ;)

I've long felt that if "select" and "right" are going to do different functions, one should start a new playlist (what it does now) and the other should 'insert' or 'queue', but that's another topic for another place as it concerns all players.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: mannequin on September 09, 2007, 01:23:39 AM
yes, at least different functions for "select" and "right" would've been nice.

it just seemed like a logical solution to use "right" to return to the wps on gigabeat after 5 minutes with the new keymap.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on September 09, 2007, 01:25:17 AM
If anything, "Right" seems to logically be a navigation button. If "Left" goes out of a folder, "Right" obviously needs to at least go into folders.

Another option would've been "On a file, Right and Select do the same thing, on a folder Right enters, while Select plays that folder" which I think is a sort of nice balance between the two.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Wrathernaut on October 08, 2007, 11:04:28 PM
I still have issues with the lack of tactile feedback from the Gigabeat F series, myself and other who use it tend to hit the center of the cross. Long presses aren't triggered falsely, but skipping tracks ends up pausing far too often.

Since rolling my own became possible, I set the A to pause in the WPS and the center of the cross doesn't do anything. Much less fat-fingering now.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: gorman on October 11, 2007, 09:35:42 AM
What I find strange is keeping up and down for volume control on a platform that has hard buttons dedicated to exactly the same task.

Maybe mimicking the Rio Karma interface would make sense? Up->Pause/Play, Down->Stop.

Has there ever been discussion about letting users choose which commands to assign to which buttons? Maybe with a .cfg external file or something.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: AlexP on October 11, 2007, 10:12:22 AM
Has there ever been discussion about letting users choose which commands to assign to which buttons? Maybe with a .cfg external file or something.

Yes, and it isn't going to happen.  For reasons, search the forums, there are plenty of threads on it.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: gorman on October 12, 2007, 09:17:50 AM
Has there ever been discussion about letting users choose which commands to assign to which buttons? Maybe with a .cfg external file or something.

Yes, and it isn't going to happen.  For reasons, search the forums, there are plenty of threads on it.
To do that (changing key configuration) one has to compile its own version then, right?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: scharkalvin on October 12, 2007, 09:34:18 AM
Just looked at the on line manual for the gigabeat.  Doesn't look like it was updated yet?  Also I note that the volume keys don't control the volume?  (Do the volume keys do anything?)

I'm watching some auctions for gigabeat players on ebay, maybe I'll end up checking this out first hand.  BTW since I've never actually seen a gigabeat in person, how
big and heavy are they compared with ipods?
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: LambdaCalculus on October 12, 2007, 09:39:25 AM
BTW since I've never actually seen a gigabeat in person, how
big and heavy are they compared with ipods?

They're actually quite light and slender. Since markun's visiting here in New York and brought his, I finally got a good idea of what it's like to carry it around and use it. His F40 is about as thick as my 30GB iPod video, if not perhaps a wee bit thicker, and is about the same size vertically. The weight, to me, feels a little bit lighter than the iPod video. Perhaps it's because the Gigabeats don't have that metal backing like the iPods do. :)
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: GodEater on October 12, 2007, 10:08:03 AM
Wonder what sort of Gigabeat markun has then - mine's SOLID metal...
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: LambdaCalculus on October 12, 2007, 10:28:27 AM
His is metal. But it's metal that doesn't weigh like metal.

But regardless, I like the feel of the Gigabeat. Nice, light, solid as hell. I might get one to at least help out with improving the port.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: AlexP on October 12, 2007, 11:46:28 AM
His is metal. But it's metal that doesn't weigh like metal.

What kind of heathen magic is this?

To do that (changing key configuration) one has to compile its own version then, right?

Yes, and it is pretty easy.  Look in apps/keymaps/keymap-gigabeat.c
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: LambdaCalculus on October 12, 2007, 11:53:12 AM
What kind of heathen magic is this?

It is an ancient magic, known only to the eldest of wizards.

What is the Gigabeat shell made of, anyway? It feels like aluminum to me, but I could be wrong. :)
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on October 12, 2007, 03:57:57 PM
I'd guess aluminum.

And to the earlier poster who said the volume keys don't work: Mine work just fine. I assume you're using an Official build and saying this? If so, post a thread and describe where you're trying them that they don't work properly, as they should work anywhere that's not a plugin.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: scharkalvin on October 12, 2007, 06:54:35 PM
NO, I meant that in the manual it said that on the WPS section the volume
was controlled with the up/down keys and didn't mention the use of the
volume buttons at all.  In fact, I didn't see any mention in the rockbox manual
what the volume keys were used for.  Maybe that means they ONLY control the
volume, and that the up/down keys do also.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: Llorean on October 12, 2007, 06:57:09 PM
Sorry, you said
Quote
Also I note that the volume keys don't control the volume?
rather than "I note that it doesn't say the volume keys control the volume" so I thought you meant you'd actually tried it.

Please, don't say something does or doesn't do something unless you actually attempt it. They control the volume, and are not used for anything else, but I guess this isn't documented in the manual.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: scharkalvin on October 13, 2007, 12:22:47 PM
I was only talking about the manual.  Is there a review process for the manual?
Is there anyway that people can help with this?  (My wife is a grammar and spelling "policewoman").  

BTW looks like I will probably look for a Gigibeat "F" on fleabay and will then try it out for myself.  All things considered (features, battery play time, size/weight) the Gigabeat F is probably one of the better Rockbox targets, probably better than iPods of the same disk size.  
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: AlexP on October 13, 2007, 01:16:50 PM
The manual is in SVN along with the rest of rockbox.  It is written in Latex.  If you would like to help out (and that is always welcome), then please do.  Patches can be submitted to flyspray, and if you don't know/don't want to learn latex a simple text file (no .doc etc) will also be helpful.

Please bear in mind that Rockbox uses British spelling etc conventions.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: scharkalvin on October 13, 2007, 08:09:37 PM
OT comment but...
LaTex brings back memories of Nroff, Troff (etc) before Wordperfect and MSword
in the days I was working for a Unix shop. (Gould / S.E.L. Fort Lauderdale, now kaput).
Imagine having to do your project reports that way.
Title: Re: Gigabeat Keymap Change
Post by: gorman on November 13, 2007, 05:39:40 AM
What I find strange is keeping up and down for volume control on a platform that has hard buttons dedicated to exactly the same task.

Maybe mimicking the Rio Karma interface would make sense? Up->Pause/Play, Down->Stop
What about this thought? Wouldn't it make sense for this to be standard?

Edit: I brought this back because I think it was a distinct matter from my request of a "customize buttons" function being made available to end users.

It might well be that for the majority of users the fickle nature of the cross means that it's better to keep a "more neutral " function like volume up/down on the cross rather than the "final" functions of play/pause/stop, which are far more destructive of the music flow than a simple +/- 1 in volume.