Rockbox Technical Forums

Support and General Use => Theming and Appearance Customization => Topic started by: JdGordon on October 12, 2008, 03:09:58 AM

Title: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on October 12, 2008, 03:09:58 AM
I had a bit of fun with the %mv tag so I thought I'd go one better and let you setup proper view modes (like what the sansa OF does)

the basic jist of it is %?mo<one|two|three> will display one untill browse is pressed, then two, then three when browse is pressed again, then back to one.

go nuts and put up some nice WPS' so we have examples when/if its commited
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on October 12, 2008, 10:48:00 PM
really? no comments? not even the themers want this!?
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: audio-i on October 13, 2008, 02:25:13 AM
I would have liked to actually use this before my comment, but since I'll probably only be able to try it until next weekend or so, I just wanted to say that it looks like this is THE wps feature... seriously! If I'm getting it right, combining conditional viewports, it will allow to make themes so flexible, that with just one click you'll be able to actually make the whole wps change, something like the "hold conditional" trick, but more powerful, because you keep the freedom of being able to use all the buttons normally.

This opens new possibilities for creativity, but just to mention a simple idea that comes to mind quickly, I'd really like to make a personal wps that would have an "ultra clean" look, without losing access to very complete - and nicely displayed (graphically) - information.  So the main view mode would just have huge album art, perhaps a discrete progress bar, title and artist names in big fonts (I'd also use the %mv volume tag there!); in a second view mode I'd display graphically things like repeat and shuffle modes, battery, next song info, even song rating, replaygain or crossfade mode... Now, some things mentioned for the second view mode are quite important, a "must" for many people, so why leaving them out of the first view mode... but hey, after all, they'll be just one click away!  ;)
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on October 13, 2008, 03:10:03 AM
yeah, seems its just you and I that like the idea though....
The idea of the wps being able to steal a button is not sitting well with pretty much everyone, so 1 proposal is to have a setting which would disable the tag by default, people wanting to use the tag would need to enable the setting manually. So i'll do this at the end of the week and see if there is any support, otherwise it will stay on the tracker for eternity :p
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: yapper on October 13, 2008, 07:22:14 AM
Couldn't it 'share' the button (long Select on my iPod) currently used to access the screen that shows Repeat/Shuffle/File settings?
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 13, 2008, 06:29:04 PM
I'll definitely have to mess with this when I get a chance, though I'm not sure yet what I would do with it...

Expect something in a few days, maybe.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: pixelma on October 13, 2008, 08:02:10 PM
I'm not sure yet what I should think about such a feature, sounds very complicated to me at the moment and I don't like the changing of controls it comes with, no matter which button you would change.

Couldn't it 'share' the button (long Select on my iPod) currently used to access the screen that shows Repeat/Shuffle/File settings?
This is the button to call the "quick screen" and not all targets have this one (the Ondio and Player, lack of buttons and in case of the latter, charcell screen) - whereas every target has a button to access the file browser from the WPS.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: bzavala on October 13, 2008, 10:46:36 PM
I had a bit of fun with the %mv tag so I thought I'd go one better and let you setup proper view modes (like what the sansa OF does)

the basic jist of it is %?mo<one|two|three> will display one untill browse is pressed, then two, then three when browse is pressed again, then back to one.

go nuts and put up some nice WPS' so we have examples when/if its commited

Jonathan,

I'm interested in this new tag and would like to give it a try. But I'm a little confused... what are the "one", "two", "three" elements? Just texts? more tags?

Also, could you or someone else provide a compiled version with this patch?

Thanks !!

Ben
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 13, 2008, 11:09:30 PM
Well, I tested the patch on one of my existing themes (just to make it switch from showing art to not showing art when art is present, nothing fancy), and it does work nicely.  I'll have to spend some time thinking up something more creative...  Just something I want to note, for the iriver H10s, there's nothing assigned to a short select, so perhaps the patch can be changed to use that key on those players?

@bzavala:  You'd probably use this tag with conditional viewports to display certain sets of viewports depending on what "mode" is set.  This could be used to display a really large album art image with minimal information in one screen "mode", and lots more information in another screen mode.  In the case of the Sansa E200s, one could use this tag to make a theme much more like the official firmware's theme.

According to the tracker, you can make 127 different modes (not that I would think anyone would need nearly that many...).
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: ryran on October 13, 2008, 11:58:22 PM
Wow. I LOVE the idea.
Methinks we could really use more designers/artists though...seriously.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: audio-i on October 14, 2008, 12:33:39 AM
@bzavala, you may see it as an improved "hold conditional" view mode, because when you use the hold to display a different view, you are in one of the following situations: 1- you get the new info, but you obviously  won't be able to change volume, etc,  or 2- you block all the buttons using hold as intended, but you are "forced" to leave the main view. With this tag you get your new views without falling in these situations.
But this tag is much more than that; to give an "extreme" example, you could even make something like a "one click theme change" (of course if you stay within the current limits - viewports #, images loaded, etc -), because when you change the view mode, you could display a whole new set of images, still being able to use all the buttons normally, keeping all the functionality... and if this tag makes a "one click theme change" possible, many "in between" options would also be possible, wouldn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: pixelma on October 14, 2008, 04:23:59 AM
...still being able to use all the buttons normally, keeping all the functionality...

No you are not. When using this tag you will not be able to enter the file browser with a short button press from the WPS anymore (at least on many targets even if you can find a spare button to do this on some). And the most cumbersome thing about it in my opinion is - that this button behaviour will change depending on whether your selected theme uses this tag in the WPS or not.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: GodEater on October 14, 2008, 04:30:13 AM
Agreed, button behaviour which is changed depending on what theme you have loaded is a very bad idea.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: linuxstb on October 14, 2008, 09:02:49 AM
My initial reaction to this patch was the same as many others - that changing button mapping depending on theme is a bad idea.

But the more I think about it, the less against it I am.  Users choose to install a theme, and it should be pretty obvious that the WPS is responsible when pressing SELECT (or whatever the ACTION_WPS_BROWSE action is mapped to) causes the WPS to change instead of the normal behaviour.

The manual could be modified to say something like "this button either changes the current WPS view (for themes that support multiple views), or provides a shortcut to enter the browser."

The other problem of course is that not all targets (although I think it's just one - the Ondio) simply don't have enough buttons to enable this feature to work.  So reluctantly, I think we would have to say that the Ondio can't have this feature due to hardware limitations (lack of buttons).   EDIT: pixelma has corrected me, so ignore this paragraph.

So assuming that people think this feature is useful, I think we should be prepared to compromise.

To the theme designers that want this patch committed - it's up to you to convince the Rockbox developers that this is a good idea!
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: bzavala on October 14, 2008, 06:29:31 PM
Thanks to all who responded to my last post. I also like this idea and would like to give it a try.. perhaps I can modify some of my themes to test this.

Does someone has an already compiled version with this patch that I can try?

Thanks a lot !!


Ben
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: soap on October 14, 2008, 08:36:43 PM
Does someone has an already compiled version with this patch that I can try?
What player?

EDIT:
It appears you have a Video, a E200, and a C200.
All three build can be found at http://cleansoap.org/wps/.
There is also a Windows sim for the Video there.
I have no idea if it will work, never made a Windows sim before.

EDIT2:
It appears you need to extract the .rockbox folder from the rockbox-full.zip (in the sim build zip) into the archos directory to even have a chance to make my sim build work.

Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: bzavala on October 15, 2008, 01:15:46 AM
yes, a 60gb video.. I forgot to mention that. I'll try the compiled version you put out there. Thanks Soap!


Ben
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on October 15, 2008, 05:33:15 AM
There is one more option with the buttons... some targets do have a spare button which could be used for this. The downside is we possibly dont compile this patc h for all targets, and also it might be complicated trying to explain which button is used on which target.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 15, 2008, 02:40:10 PM
I've been messing around with it on my H10 20GB for a while and I do have to admit it does have some appeal, but it definitely does need to be assigned to a more appropriate button.  As I mentioned, the H10s don't have anything assigned to the short select, so perhaps at least for that target the mode-change could be assigned to that button.

Otherwise, it's a nice patch, and I do hope to see it in SVN someday once everything's worked out appropriately.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: bzavala on October 15, 2008, 11:23:29 PM
I also have been playing with this new tag and I am liking a lot... I don't miss the browse function that much, since you can still get there through the menus.

It would be very nice if it could remember what the last view mode was used.. but the way it is right now just works great.. I hope this gets committed... but I am aware that many people are opposed because of the main select button functionality... perhaps a variable in the WPS config file that enables/disables the browse/view mode...

Thanks!

Ben
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 16, 2008, 12:51:19 PM
I personally have no problems with it starting off on the first view mode upon shutting down and starting up again later, since I so far have coded my WPSes such that the mode I, at least, intend to use most often is the first mode displayed, with the second mode displaying more information when switched to.

That being said, though, I suppose something like that wouldn't be a bad feature, though I would be curious as to how that would be saved, since the way things are set up one can use as many modes as one likes, up to 127 (though how anyone would even manage to make that many, given WPS file size restrictions, total image size restrictions, smallish screen sizes and no doubt layout limitations arising from such...  I ended up only *barely* managing to make my WPS small enough to work and still do everything I want it to, and I only used two different modes...)
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: audio-i on October 20, 2008, 02:15:20 AM
I also tried this patch and as I expected... it is great! I would have liked to make the theme I'm working on available - using this patch - so other people could see what it's about, but it's not finished yet, I hope I will be able to in a few days.

The main uses I've seen so far for it, are that:  - It allows to have very uncluttered views since it's always possible to access more information in subsequent views; - Also, that information can be easier displayed graphically; - It also allows to display very big album art and big graphics in general, because it kind of "virtually multiplies the size of the screen" by adding multiple views.

And this feature would become even more useful when/if other features are added, like being able to display a second album art set, which would allow to display a "full screen" album art, or the back cover, or the next song cover; or if it would be possible to set the song rating using the scroll wheel (volume)... But this is no new-features request  ;) I just wanted to point out that this feature is great, and IMHO it also can potentially become even better as new features are added
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on October 20, 2008, 03:12:29 AM
or if it would be possible to set the song rating using the scroll wheel (volume)...

haha, with the pain this patch is going through there is bassically 0% chance that sort of patch would ever get accepted
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: audio-i on October 20, 2008, 09:50:52 AM
or if it would be possible to set the song rating using the scroll wheel (volume)...

haha, with the pain this patch is going through there is bassically 0% chance that sort of patch would ever get accepted

see? now that would be a mean patch  ;)
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 22, 2008, 04:16:03 PM
Decided to mess with this patch a little more and came up with what I think is a really good demonstration of its abilities:

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/Karashata/dump081022-160751.jpg)
View 1

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/Karashata/dump081022-161121.jpg)
View 1 (no art)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/Karashata/dump081022-160753.jpg)
View 2

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/Karashata/dump081022-161124.jpg)
View 2 (no art)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/Karashata/dump081022-160755.jpg)
View 3

Lots of fun...
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: bzavala on October 22, 2008, 05:44:30 PM
yes it's lots of fun :D

Wish we could load more than 1 album art @ a different size so you could display one huge album art in one view, and another one a smaller album art and song info...
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 23, 2008, 12:37:40 PM
That would be nice, yes, and it would allow for theme designers to really go crazy with unique themes...

For now, though, I'll just try to keep thinking of creative things to do until this patch makes it into SVN (if it ever does.)
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: linuxstb on October 23, 2008, 12:45:53 PM
karashata,

Are you able to post your theme somewhere?  e.g. on Flyspray as part of FS#9477 ?

I don't know about others, but I would like to see how this looks/feels on a real device.

Thanks.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: karashata on October 23, 2008, 12:48:30 PM
Certainly, I'll post it there in a short while.
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: audio-i on October 29, 2008, 06:03:13 PM
I finally finished the theme for the iPod video I started that uses the view mode tag, I added it to the FS#9477 tracker if anyone wants to try it, and see how this tag works. Additionally to what has been said about it, one thing's for sure: WPS's become so dynamic. Below are some screenshots:

1- The first view mode pretends to isolate the 200x200 album art image, so it is a very static view mode. View mode 2 (not shown) just displays the next track info (alternating after a while the now playing info).

2- The third view mode is the extended info screen.

3&4- These screenshots show the progress bar when pressing ffw/rew and the volume bar when changing volume.

5- The third view mode just changes the colors in the “console” to yellow. I wanted to add a couple view modes for red and blue, but four additional viewports are needed for each color, and I had already reached the viewports limit. In fact I really had to struggle to make all this fit using the current 24 viewports limit, but I had to leave out important features like a hold icon or showing the hard drive activity. Still, the theme is completely usable, and helps seeing how this features look and feel on a real device.

(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)
(http://)


[Edit] This theme will only look ok if you use 200x200 album art...
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: bzavala on October 29, 2008, 07:34:37 PM
Wow Humberto! I love it already. Will you plan to make a simpler version for the current svn without this patch? Another awesome theme! :D
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: audio-i on October 30, 2008, 01:20:48 AM
Will you plan to make a simpler version for the current svn without this patch?

Well, maybe, but I'd like to improve a few graphics first... anyway, what I like mostly about it is how it changes using this patch, so I hope it will be committed to svn... Then I would surely improve it and post it  :) In the meantime, judging by your themes, I'm sure it won't be difficult for you to modify this theme for your use ;) the .wps is quite organized and commented, it even includes the HDD & lock icons... only a few lines would have to be modified to change the conditional viewports displaying...
thanks for your comments
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on October 30, 2008, 01:23:18 AM
looking good!
ill see about commiting this soonish (might have to wait till after exams though, mid nov latest hopefully)
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: Angyman on November 10, 2008, 07:02:27 PM
Great idea ;-) Will play around with it this weekend !

A QUESTION IN ADVANCE: Will this conditional tag redraw the whole screen or just only erase and draw the containing viewports?
Title: Re: new tag on the tracker... FS#9477
Post by: JdGordon on November 10, 2008, 07:15:47 PM
I cant remember.. I'm tihnking the whole screen, but you'd need to check it to be sure