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cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
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Topic: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120 (Read 3002 times)
littlenick
Member
Posts: 47
cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
on:
February 27, 2010, 12:05:08 PM »
Hi!
I am rather new too rockbox (version r 24861-100222 on my iriver h120) and I wonder what the mix mode on crossfade is about.
To me it seems it doesn't mix at all but simply do an overlay of fading in song and the fading out one.
But maybe I'm doing it wrong?
Just to make clear what a "real" mix means to me:
If let me say the first song is running on 102 bpm and the song to follow starts with 118 bpm then it would take to slow down the second song down to 102 bpm without altering pitch during the first seconds of the fade in. Then it should continously speed up both the fading out first song and the fading in second song until at the end of of the first song's fade out both achieve the second's song regular 118 bpm.
I really wonder if a limited CPU like my iriver's one can do such complex calculation?
I mean - it would have to analyze both songs for peak maxima (maybe even filtered for frequencies of common rhythm instruments) in the relevant sections, then perform a timestretch of the faster songer and a speed up of the slower song while maintaining pitch and continously adapting output volume....?
Well maybe I am asking for too much - but what is rockbox's crossfade supposed to perform?
Besides - I wanted to try timestrech but couldn't make it work - couldn't find the pitch screen.
Anybody here made some observations or can give me useful hints?
Cheers!
Thomas
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yapper
Rockbox Expert
Member
Posts: 794
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #1 on:
February 27, 2010, 12:19:35 PM »
http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-iriverh100/rockbox-buildch7.html#x10-1200007.8
Pitch change does not occur as part of Rockbox's crossfade
«
Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:21:12 PM by yapper
»
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G2 iPod 20GB / Sansa c240 v1 + 2GB microSD / Sansa c250 v1 / Sansa e250 v1 + 8GB microSDHC / Sansa Fuze v2 + 32GB microSDHC
saratoga
Developer
Member
Posts: 9308
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #2 on:
February 27, 2010, 12:46:08 PM »
Playback can only really look about 4-5 seconds ahead of the current track position (in the best case) due to memory limitations so its not possible to look ahead to future tracks compute the bpm. The best the hardware could do would be to store the bpm in an ID3 tag and use it to set time stretch at the start of tracks, however I think that would take a lot of programming to make work.
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MajiKool Dragonâ„¢
Member
Posts: 147
I'm me!
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #3 on:
February 27, 2010, 01:57:53 PM »
too bad because i could really use such a feature too.
i often use my sansa e260r to dj at parties and other events.
actually it'd be great if the software could do it for me, but even the ability to separately time-stretch the next track in advance manually would be great too.
feature request?
i'm game for testing if someone wants to code. i've got the compilation environment running and all. i just don't know how to code in C yet. otherwise i'd give it a go myself.
«
Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 01:59:44 PM by MajiKool Dragonâ„¢
»
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"Isn't it funny how even the coldest weather isn't so cold when you've got people who care about you to walk through it with you." - MajiKool Dragonâ„¢
SanDisk Sansa c240v1 + 16GB µSDHC, Apple iPhone 4 iOS4.2.1 Jailbroken
littlenick
Member
Posts: 47
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #4 on:
February 28, 2010, 10:01:14 AM »
So if I understand this right...
quote: "If set to Mix, the ending song will not fade out at all, and will continue to play as normal until its end with the starting song fading in from under it. "
...the fade out duration has no impact in mix mode because the song is going to play to it's "natural" end anyway and fade in duration becomes
the
determining factor
And yes, it is a pity a real dj-mix (with beats to match perfectly and to cut lengthy intros and outros) is not possible with rockbox.
Not even with a hardware grade-up?
Probably I sound like the kid who can`t get enough candy on Christmas....
Well anyway, want to try the timestretch feature - see how it works if I just could find that "pitch screen" on rockbox.
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torne
Developer
Member
Posts: 994
arf arf
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #5 on:
February 28, 2010, 12:14:53 PM »
Automatic beat matching and mixing in the way you describe barely works acceptably on actual PCs without a huge amount of manual setup beforehand (marking intro/outros of every track and making sure that autodetected BPMs are accurate). Doing it in Rockbox would be very difficult; it's not even that the hardware isn't powerful enough (though it probably isn't), it's just a very hard problem to solve *at all*.
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some kind of ARM guy. ipodvideo/gigabeat-s/h120/clipv2. to save time let's assume i know everything.
littlenick
Member
Posts: 47
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #6 on:
March 02, 2010, 06:48:41 AM »
Still I'd like to try the timestrech feature.
Somewhere I`ve read it is accessible via the "pitch screen".
Can't find that one.
There is a plugin with pitch-something coming with version 3.5.
But cannot make that plugin do anything anyway and would't know if this is where I can start "timestretch".
But I've set the timestretch-option to yes and restarted the player as requested.
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yapper
Rockbox Expert
Member
Posts: 794
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #7 on:
March 02, 2010, 07:25:30 AM »
The answer is in the manual (try downloading the pdf version and search for 'pitch')
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G2 iPod 20GB / Sansa c240 v1 + 2GB microSD / Sansa c250 v1 / Sansa e250 v1 + 8GB microSDHC / Sansa Fuze v2 + 32GB microSDHC
littlenick
Member
Posts: 47
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #8 on:
March 02, 2010, 02:17:22 PM »
I did and I'm at a loss.
The pitch plugin is something entirely different.
Am I just too blind to see?
Do you mean the bass and treble functions in sound settings?
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karashata
Rockbox Expert
Member
Posts: 603
Just a fluffy dragon with too much time on my paws
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #9 on:
March 02, 2010, 02:26:30 PM »
The pitch screen being referred to is accessed from the context menu of the WPS, it should be at the bottom of the list. You'll need to make sure that you have time-stretching enabled (from the main menu: Settings -> Sound Settings -> Timestretch -> Yes), then go to the pitch screen in the WPS context menu. You'll need to change the screen a couple times before you can adjust the speed without affecting the pitch though since the first two screens affect both pitch and speed.
Logged
Welp, my iriver H10 20GB is out of commission again.
littlenick
Member
Posts: 47
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #10 on:
March 05, 2010, 01:53:26 PM »
Thank you karashata for this explicit answer.
Well - I did try, first enable time-stretch, turn off my iriver, turn it back on to reboot, selected a song to play and then went to pitch screen.
All I succed in doing is slowing down or speeding up the song - but pitch changes accordingly!
Went back to sound settings and time stretch to check if it is still enabled. Yes it still is.
Back to the pitch screen. Move the navi button up and down - all I get is playback speed alteration
with
pitch distortion.
I cannot make much use of the right/left function of the navi button - this gives me only a temporary small pitch change (indicated is 2%) of the current value.
But I don't get to any other screen.
So what do you mean with "You'll have to change screen a couple of times before you can adjust speed without affecting the pitch.
The pitch screen seems like a dead end to me - just like the timestretch function never had been implemented???
Sorry for asking so stupid questions
Tom
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karashata
Rockbox Expert
Member
Posts: 603
Just a fluffy dragon with too much time on my paws
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #11 on:
March 05, 2010, 03:52:51 PM »
I'm not sure what button you need to press on the H120 to change the mode (probably should have referred to it as mode the first time), but when timestretch is enabled there should be four different modes the pitch screen can use, those being pitch, semitone, pitch (with timestretch) and semitone (with timestretch). You'll need to figure out which button to press to change the mode to one of the last two in order to be able to adjust pitch and speed separately.
Logged
Welp, my iriver H10 20GB is out of commission again.
littlenick
Member
Posts: 47
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #12 on:
March 07, 2010, 03:30:43 AM »
Oh - it's the A-B button!
How embarrassing - I should have paid attention to the key function table in the manual.
Now it's working. Fascinating feature! What a pity it isn't worked into a "DJ-mode" mix program.
Thanks to everyone who helped me along!
Greetings, Tom
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yapper
Rockbox Expert
Member
Posts: 794
Re: cross fade mix mode issue on iriver h120
«
Reply #13 on:
March 07, 2010, 03:41:56 AM »
the manual IS useful
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G2 iPod 20GB / Sansa c240 v1 + 2GB microSD / Sansa c250 v1 / Sansa e250 v1 + 8GB microSDHC / Sansa Fuze v2 + 32GB microSDHC
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